Random Thoughts About ASOIAF

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

How did Ned and Howland manage to dismantle the Tower of Joy?

[EggBlue]

33 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

How did Ned and Howland manage to dismantle the Tower of Joy?

don't open that can of worms

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

2 hours ago, EggBlue said:

don't open that can of worms

Let me guess: Howland studied at Hogwarts? 

[EggBlue]

6 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Let me guess: Howland studied at Hogwarts? 

that is actually popular ! OR you'll get posters calculating the force required to pull down a tower using ropes and horses... then there will be loads of disagreements among experts on diameter of the ropes , number of horses , etc, etc. 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

I just watched Braveheart for the first time in 20 years or so, and the Starks vs. the south really parallels the Scottish vs the English.  William Wallace was betrayed by his own nobles, Rob was betrayed by his own nobles, and Jon was betrayed by his men. 

Jon's mother was "Wylla" and Jon is at the Wall (~Wallace) and the name Wallace comes from Wales / weales / wealh meaning "stranger, foreigner, Welshman" (weall means "wall" and wael means "dead bodies, slaughter") gwyll means "ghost, night-walker" so Jon is William Wallace, who was said to have slaughtered every southron he happened upon.  In ASoIaF, William Wallace is the Night King.

 

I have previously theorized that object called "the Wall" is actually the topmost rim of the Second Moon (aka the Stranger) as seen from Winterfell--it is a Wall of darkness that stretches from horizon to horizon, and it is where the dead go, and the White Walkers live under its Shadow.  And it became mythologized as a Wall that separated the living from the dead, and during the Long Night, the Wall "falls" because the Second Moon moves to eclipse the sun, which allows the White Walkers and the army of the dead to come south.

And in Anglo-Saxon wealh means "Stranger" and weall means "Wall" and wael means "dead bodies, slaughter"

Edited March 11, 2022 by By Odin's Beard

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

Valar morghulis, valar doheris

Also, in Old Norse valr (A.S. wael, walre) means "the slain" and vallari (Latin wallus) means "pilgrim, traveler, stranger"

and in Dutch vallur means "nightfall"

morgun-lauss means "without dawn" in Old Norse

So vallur morgun-lauss is "night without dawn" when the Stranger brings the dead.

 

And in Gaelic fala means "wall" and faill means "cliff" and morgadh means "death, decay" and leas means "time"--When the Wall Falls, is the Time of Death)

 

murr = "wall", gull = "gilded",--the Stranger with a corona of eclipse is a rimmed in gold is the Night King's crown.  goll = shriek, and gollr = "claw, talon, hawk" and gol = "breeze" and the Winds of Winter were supposed to be caused by a giant eagle in the north flapping its wings.

 

da-herra / do-herra = "dead army" / "dead host" in Old Norse and Swedish

And the Stranger brings nightfall and the undead army.

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by By Odin's Beard

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

I just realized that in LoTR, the Otherworld is where the Valar live and valr means "the Slain"--it is where the dead live, and it was attached to the Earth but then was separated from the Earth and went into space, and vallari means "wanderer" --like a planet, and it wandered off into space, and that is why magic disappeared and why the Otherworld can no longer be reached.

Which would directly parallel the Wall being attached to the Earth and then being separated and moving into eclipse to cause the Long Night, (and when it gets sent away, the seasons go back to normal.)

The Otherworld / Stranger is Bran's Cauldron which brings the dead back to life, and that explains why it is said that Bran built the Wall--when he parked the Otherworld on the horizon, the Wall appeared.  And when he moves it again, the Wall will fall.

The Others live under the Otherworld.  And the dead live beyond the Wall.  And when the Otherworld overlaps our world, the Others and their army can invade.

 

Which also parallels The Witcher, during the Conjunction of Spheres the inhabitants of the Otherworld can cross into our world, and vice versa.

In the Witcher Ciri gives prophecies when in a trance, one time she she says:  Va'esse deireadh aep eigean

In Dwelly's Gaelic:

ess = "Ship, vessel, death"

deireadh = "The End, stern of a ship"

eigean = "ice" "cry, death-watch"

The Ship/Vessel of Death, the End, Ice, Death, Cry.

It is describing a conjunction of spheres that brings a Long Night, or the Wolf's Blizzard.  And there is suggestion that Ciri can actually steer a planet.

The Otherworld is a ship of death that can be steered, like Naglifar the ship of the dead that sails at Ragnarok, and like with Lovecraft's Yuggoth / Black Goat, and George's Yagalla, and the Ark. (theta means "death" in Latin)

Edited March 11, 2022 by By Odin's Beard

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

Between Jon I and Tyrion I in the first book, Tyrion must have had a bad fall doing acrobatics that was never shown and never talked about, and which ruined his career as a gymnast and that is why he is so bitter.

Jon I:  "Jon gasped, then watched with awe as Tyrion Lannister spun around in a tight ball, landed lightly on his hands, then vaulted backward onto his legs."

Trion I:  "His legs were stiff and sore as he eased down off the bench. He massaged some life back into them and limped heavily to the table"

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

Back to the Otherworld, in Norse myth the Otherworld was sometimes called the Glittering Plain, or Odainsaker.

The story of Erik and Erik has one of them finding an invisible floating castle that is the Otherworld paradise, filled with food and wine.  And before the castle is a field of star-like flowers.  This is the exact plot of George's Bitterblooms.

In the book Castles, by Alan Lee (who did art for LoTR) here is their summary of the tale of Erik and Erik:

THE QUEST for an earthly paradise is a theme that occurs throughout all time, in all lands. Among the later tales of the Vikings is that of two heroes who search for a magical realm called Odainsaker, the Glittering Plain.

THE CASTLE IN THE AIR

 

THE TWO HEROES, Erik of Denmark and Erik of Norway, once set out to discover the realm of Odainsaker, said to be in a land cast of India. They travelled far and long, and at length came to a river crossed by a stone bridge. On the far side stood a ravenous dragon waiting to devour any who ventured over. Erik of Denmark hesitated, but Erik of Norway, like a mad berserker, rushed into the gaping jaws of the dragon and was immediately consumed in a burst of flame.

 

Mourning the loss of his companion, Erik of Denmark went home. But after the passage of many years, the lost Erik reappeared in Norway. The dragon had been an illusion, and proved indeed to be a gateway to a wonderful plain, gleaming with star-like flowers of heavenly perfumes. It was a land of eternal summer where no creature even cast a shadow. There Erik of Norway travelled until he found a delicate tower suspended in mid-air. A ladder hung down, so the hero climbed up.

 

In the tower was everything he could wish for- fine food, rich wine, luxurious furnishings - and a perfume that filled him with constant joy. He was sure he had found Odainsaker, the Glittering Plain.

 

In time, however, it was revealed that this place was but a drab imitation of the real Odainsaker, and if he wished to go on to the true Paradise, he must understand that it was a land of no return. Faced with this critical choice, Erik of Norway decided he would not go on, but for a time at least would return to the world of his companions and kinsmen.

 

The Otherworld was a spaceship.  In George's Bitterblooms, the Otherworld was a spaceship from Avalon.  In the tale of Erik and Erik the Glittering Plain was in the far east, but in other tales it is in the north.

 

Asgard was also a floating invisible castle, where Odin kept the dead warriors at Valhalla (~Wall hall) who would come back from the dead to fight at Ragnarok.  And the Lord Commander at the Wall is a stand-in for Odin, with his raven and his wolf.  And he keeps the dead on their side of the Wall.

(ursa means "bear" and ursa means "defender, door" and ursanach means "door guard" and the Old Bear was the chief guardian who defended the door in the Wall that leads to the afterlife)

 

Asgard was connected to Earth by a Rainbow Bridge, and braon-bogha means "rainbow" in Gaelic.  The Rainbow Bridge is the Wall, and Bran built the Wall, and Bran bow means "rainbow"

 

At Ragnarok the Rainbow Bridge is broken, permanently separating Asgard from the Earth, just like in LoTR with Valinor being separated from Middle-Earth. 

 

ETA: just remembered that Odainsaker means "The Undying Lands" 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by By Odin's Beard

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

More from the tale of Erik and Erik:

Eirek asked, “Where is that place which is called The Deathless Acre?” The king says, “We call that Paradise, or the Living Land.” Eirek asked, “Where is it situated?” The king says, “The country is east of furthest India.” Eirek asked, “Can I get there?” “I don’t know about that,” says the king, “A wall of fire stands before it which reaches right up to heaven.”

The Undying Lands/Odainsaker/Glittering Plains are guarded by a Wall of Fire that reaches right up to heaven, the Wall is a glittering wall that blazes when the sunlight hits it.

And when they’d travelled as much as forty-four miles through the regions of India, they came at last to dark regions where they saw stars as clearly by day as by night.

The Undying Lands are under the Shadow.  Guarding the bridge to the Undying Lands is a dragon, and Erik goes into the mouth of the dragon, and Jon says going into the Wall is like going into the mouth of an Ice Dragon.

 

 

The Book of the New Sun also has a gigantic 1,000-foot-high Wall that keeps Erebus (Cthulhu) and his servants at bay.  And there is a huge floating invisible castle in that series as well. 

 

[The Bard of Banefort]

I saw someone point out that neither Aegon I or Jaehaerys I were knighted. My mind is blown. 

[Lord Browndodd]

In the case of Aegon I, who would have been presumptuous enough to carry it out?

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

14 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I saw someone point out that neither Aegon I or Jaehaerys I were knighted. My mind is blown. 

Do kings really need to be knighted, though? Seems a bit excessive. 

[EggBlue]

16 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I saw someone point out that neither Aegon I or Jaehaerys I were knighted. My mind is blown. 

didn't Aegon I only worshiped the Seven after his conquest? Knighthood wasn't much of a concept for him

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

On 3/11/2022 at 7:08 AM, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

How did Ned and Howland manage to dismantle the Tower of Joy?

And why go to the trouble?  The logical choice was to reach the nearest town or castle if they had a screaming baby with them. 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

Just now, Skahaz mo Kandaq said:

And why go to the trouble? 

I think he used the pieces to build graves for his fallen companions. That part I understand, I'm more baffled by the technical aspect of things.

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

2 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I think he used the pieces to build graves for his fallen companions. That part I understand, I'm more baffled by the technical aspect of things.

A stone tower is not easy to demolish without a lot of laborers.  The only justification is to prevent an epidemic.  Like Lyanna had greyscale and Ned had to destroy the building in his belief that it will stop the spread. 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

I was just browsing the Gaelic dictionary,

geataire (gator) means "a rush" (reed) and "a person of small build" and "a small missile" and "bog timber" that is used as a torch

geatoir means "gatekeeper" 

geathadaich means "hopping"

gaitean means "little dart"

guta means "mire, mud" and guth means "reproach, disgrace"

The Reeds are small people that live in the bog, that are called frogs, their sigil is a Gator, they are the gatekeepers of the Neck, and they use poison darts and missiles.  And no-one except the Starks like them.

The Reeds use poisoned and tranquilizing darts, I am pretty sure that is how Howland subdued Arthur at the Tower of Joy, and that Arthur was not killed.  (In Arthurian legend, the Tower of Joy has false graves that are empty)

 

Jojen

guagadh means "shaking, unsteady, dizzy"  and goigin means "a silly person" (ironic, Jojen is the opposite of silly) and guagaire means "a rambler, one without a fixed residence" and the Reeds live in a floating castle.  (and joj means "crow" in Mayan)

gogaire naoideanan  means "midwife" (Reed + Stark + Dayne, present at the birth of a baby)

geagenod means "adopted" in Anglo-Saxon

gaegung means "false step, slip" and it is right above gaelan "to retard, to hinder, impede" and geagl means "throat, jaws, maw"

If Westeros is a living creature, armies walk into the Neck and get swallowed.  And Moat Cailin (gaelan) hinders invasions into the North, where Knights step into the bog and sink.  And caoile means "narrow" in Gaelic. 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

So Lovecraft was obsessed with the Black Goat / Baphomet, and various of his monsters are guises of the Black Goat.

gotaire means "a goatish fellow" and Bokrug from The Doom that Came to Sarnath is a giant gator.  gator ~ gotaire.  Bokrug is really the Black Goat.

Bokrug = boc means "goat" + gruaig means "hairy, shaggy" and ruaig means "chase, raid, pursuit, flight, expel, and precipitate retreat [one of Lovecraft's favorite phrases]"  and Bokrug and the fish people of Ib raid Sarnath and chase all its people away and destroy their civilization.  The Shaggy Black Goat destroys civilizations.

guta means "mire" and Bokrug lives in a swamp with fish people.

 

Now that I am thinking about it, Nyarlathotep is the Black Goat of the Woods, and when he is wearing the face and hands of Akeley in Whisperer in Darkness, and his feet are wrapped up in bandages "like a gouty old beefeater"  gout sounds like Goat, and the bandages concealed his goat hooves.

 

 

ETA: daol-puc means "black goat, a contemptuous name for a man" (daol means "devil") and it is directly above daon / daonaide (Dayne Ned) which means "man"

puca means "ghost, hobgoblin" and in the usage notes for puca it gives:

puca seain  "John's ghost" is right next to puca sean-duine (Ghost + Jon + Dayne) "grumpy old man"

puca an duibh-re  ("ghost of the dark moon") means "Jack o' the Lantern, the sprite of darkness" [sean na gealaige  "Jon without moon" (Jon + Gilly) also means "Jack o' the Lantern"

 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by By Odin's Beard

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

So in one of George's earliest stories, Only Kids are Afraid of the Dark, Saagael is the prince of darkness and he lives in an eternal, endless night on a black planet named Corlos, and he wants to return to Earth to create an endless night here.  But he has to be summoned back.

Saagael is one of the seven cosmic black demons that appear in the night sky in The Lonely Songs of Laren Dorr.  And Saagael is worshiped in Lys, and is the faceless god that demands blood sacrifice and he is the Giver of Pain.

I have posted previously that sgail means "shadow, eclipse, astral body, ghost, spectre, manes" but I just found out that seaghail means "goat"

So Saagael is the Black Goat, it is a black astral body that causes eclipse, and is associated with ghosts and Mance. 

 

Saagael was imprisoned on the black planet Corlos, and cuirleac means "blood-letter" and ciurrail means "hurt, torture, destruction" and los means "about to, purpose, intention"

cuar means "crooked, perverse, torment, worm" and cuara means "vessel"

coire means "cauldron, boiler" and coire means "sin, crime" and coire bhais means "deadly sin"

cora means "weir" and corr means "worm"

 

Saagael is defeated by Dr Weird, who was a time traveler who went into the past and died there, and had to live as a ghost until he was born in the future.  Which is probably what happened to Bran.