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Ukraine: It’s starting…


Ser Scot A Ellison

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Kazakhstan hasn't recognized the Georgian breakaway republics, neither Crimea annexation. I don't think it has much to do with fear of being annexed themselves. My take is they are voicing China's concerns regarding the events as they walk a fine line between Russia and China influences trying to keep some independence.

 

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9 hours ago, GrimTuesday said:

It is hard for people who live within the imperial core to understand that the world order as currently constructed is not seen as a universally good thing. Because we live in such a state of relative luxury and security, the exploitation of the global south to maintain that state of luxury and security has to be ignored to avoid having to confront the utter moral bankruptcy of the narrative that we have been feed our entire lives.

LOL, as far as I can tell nobody here is saying the west is "universally a good thing" - like at all - nor ignoring our exploitation of the global south just by disagreeing with your unthinking insistence that this is another example of western imperialism (as opposed to, ya know, obvious Russian imperialism).  Indeed, pretty sure everyone that's commented on it has of course acknowledged that the US/west is often imperialist.  Talk about a lack of "nuance."  And one wonders why so many find this typical leftist whining pathetically smug and holier than thou in its thoughtless an/or irrelevant polemics.  

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18 minutes ago, DMC said:

LOL, as far as I can tell nobody here is saying the west is "universally a good thing" - like at all - nor ignoring our exploitation of the global south just by disagreeing with your unthinking insistence that this is another example of western imperialism (as opposed to, ya know, obvious Russian imperialism).  Indeed, pretty sure everyone that's commented on it has of course acknowledged that the US/west is often imperialist.  Talk about a lack of "nuance."  And one wonders why so many find this typical leftist whining pathetically smug and holier than thou in its thoughtless an/or irrelevant polemics.  

 

You've got a much calmer and more intellectual take on this than mine, which is as follows:

I fucking hate Tankies.

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29 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I fucking hate Tankies.

Seconded. Especially here where so many are downplaying or defending the imperialism from a state that’s worse at capitalism than any western country.

Though I don’t want to generalize all leftists who’ve taken the bad positions in regards to this issue as tankies. 
there’s nuance here.

 

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Not going to win points for erudition, but... fuck.

And fuck the Russian leadership for pushing this. I can't believe I find myself hoping those shitheel nuclear-armed school-yard bullies "only" take the areas they already sowed and "only" the thousands of lives lost to this point.

Fuck the imperialist fucks. Hope they choke on their conquest.

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59 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

You've got a much calmer and more intellectual take on this than mine, which is as follows:

I fucking hate Tankies.

I had never heard the term “Tankie” before today.  If the Urban Dictionary definition is what you are referring to… yes… they suck as much as Trumpanistas.

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13 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

they suck as much as Trumpanistas.

An accurate estimation of them. both tend to claim to want a more isolationist America. Tankies just recognize that would  make America far weaker.

and clear way for China whose a worse capitalistic hellscape than the US by every metric they claim to care about.

 

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31 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I had never heard the term “Tankie” before today.  If the Urban Dictionary definition is what you are referring to… yes… they suck as much as Trumpanistas.

Tankies originally were the lefties who continued to support the USSR even after they sent tanks into Hungary in 1956

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Germany suspends Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline:

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Germany has taken steps to halt the process of certifying the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline from Russia, Chancellor Olaf Scholz said Tuesday, as the West started taking punitive measures against Moscow over the Ukraine crisis.

Scholz said his government made the decision in response to Russian President Vladimir Putin’s recognition of the independence of two breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine that he said marked a “serious break of international law.”

“Now it’s up to the international community to react to this one-sided, incomprehensible and unjustified action by the Russian president,” he told reporters in Berlin, adding that it was necessary to “send a clear signal to Moscow that such actions won’t remain without consequences.”

The scuttlebutt inside the beltway is that Biden will announce further sanctions (in addition to the EO he issued last night) as soon as today as well.  Hard to call any of this "good news," but it is encouraging they are indeed reacting immediately like they promised to - in spite of the semantic debate on what the definition of "invasion" is.

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23 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Russian Trolls on NPR article discussion threads are calling Ukrainians… “ex-Russians”.

:/

Well to be fair, up here in Canada we sometimes consider you lot to be failed Canadians. 

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The scuttlebutt inside the beltway is that Biden will announce further sanctions (in addition to the EO he issued last night) as soon as today as well.  Hard to call any of this "good news," but it is encouraging they are indeed reacting immediately like they promised to - in spite of the semantic debate on what the definition of "invasion" is.

 

Will the EU go along with hits to the gas sector? Also, after issuing the new sanctions what will they have left for if Putin goes after places controlled by Ukraine forces?

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4 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

An accurate estimation of them. both tend to claim to want a more isolationist America. Tankies just recognize that would  make America far weaker.

and clear way for China whose a worse capitalistic hellscape than the US by every metric they claim to care about.

 

I can kinda-sorta understand why a die-hard leftist would defend the USSR. I am completely unable to understand why they would defend Putin's right-wing autocratic cleptocracy, which is the main supporter and financier of fascists in the West.

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18 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Will the EU go along with hits to the gas sector? Also, after issuing the new sanctions what will they have left for if Putin goes after places controlled by Ukraine forces?

Well, to the first question Germany was obviously the big holdout on nord stream, so I think you pretty much have your answer there.  As to the second question, not sure anyone can adequately answer that based on public information.  In other words, we'll see.

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"Europe Considers a Modest Initial Set of Sanctions on Russia
The hope is to restrain Moscow by keeping bigger penalties in reserve, but the question is whether the bloc could stay united on more serious measures if they were needed over several years."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/world/europe/eu-sanctions-russia-ukraine.html

From Heather Cox Richards's Substack Newsletter:

Quote

 

It is not clear if today’s developments are a precursor to a larger invasion, and that smaller incursion was likely an attempt to start a fight among Putin’s opponents over whether it is a big enough invasion to trigger the devastating sanctions the United States and European countries have prepared.

John McLaughlin, former acting director of the Central Intelligence Agency under President George W. Bush and now of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, tweeted: “Putin has choreographed this with the hope that we and the Europeans will debate whether this is an “invasion” or not. And hoping that throws us enough off balance that he will pay a minimal price for this first slice of salami.”

Russia specialist Tom Nichols saw the same thing, tweeting: “Stop parsing ‘invasion.’ Putin just partitioned Ukraine by edict and is backing it up with force. That alone is reason to impose sanctions. Argue about which sanctions to impose, maybe, and leave some daylight for future moves, but this isn't about ‘is it an invasion.’”

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Linda Thomas-Greenfield answered such concerns: “Tomorrow, the U.S. will impose sanctions on Russia for its violation of international law and Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. We can, will, and must stand united in our calls for Russia to withdraw its forces, return to the diplomatic table & work toward peace.” Tonight, Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke to Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba “to reaffirm unwavering U.S. support for Ukraine.”

In response to Putin’s machinations today, the U.S. and U.K. immediately imposed limited sanctions. Biden signed an executive order economically isolating the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine, banning all U.S. investment and business there, along with any imports from there, although it makes an exception for humanitarian aid. The executive order also allows the government to sanction individuals participating in the seizure of the region, as well.

In an address tonight, Zelensky told the Ukrainian people: “[Ukraine] is within its internationally recognized borders, and will remain so. Despite any statements and actions of the Russian Federation. We remain calm and confident.”

The price of oil rose more than 3% on the news, and stock markets around the world dropped.

Putin and his fellow oligarchs have amassed power thanks to the financial laxness of western democracies, which their money has helped to destabilize. With Putin’s attack on the international rule of law today, challenging western nations to stop him, Edward Luce of the Financial Times identified the larger picture: “Cannot be stated strongly enough,” he wrote. “If the west—chiefly America, but also Britain—doesn't burn its financial ties to Russia's oligarchy then Putin will prevail. This means taking on Wall Street, the City, law firms[,] realtors, the prep schools and western laundering outfits.”

 

IOW, it's the greed heads of London and the USA -- plus the chaos demon and the Republicans -- who have made this possible.  Who could have figgered, huh? >sarcasm<

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30 minutes ago, Kalibuster said:

Good thread from a Finnish native on his view of the crisis and what putin actually fears.

And how putin saying Lenin made a mistake directly threatens Finland. 

Read that one this morning. Another, though not in the same vein:

 

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