Hope for the Frey family

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

I want to shine a ray of hope for the Frey family and their supporters.  The Freys will not all die.  I do not believe they will all die and they do not deserve to.  But this cannot be said with certainty because I am not Martin.  The fate of House Frey will depend on who holds power.  If it's the Starks, it's goodnight to House Frey.  We already know what Arya Stark would do. Murder all of the Freys she can.  Arya is just demented enough to poison the entire family.  At least she would make the attempt.  The family will fare no better if it's Jon Snow who gets to decide their fate.  Jon was not a forgiving man even before he was assassinated.  He will be thirsting for Bolton, Marsh, and Frey blood when he returns. 

There is hope for the Freys.  The following passage is a quote from one of Daenerys Targaryen's chapters in A Clash of Kings. 

Farther on she came upon a feast of corpses. Savagely slaughtered, the feasters lay strewn across overturned chairs and hacked trestle tables, asprawl in pools of congealing blood.  Some had lost limbs, even heads.  Severed hands clutched bloody cups, wooden spoons, roast fowl, heels of bread.  In a throne above them sat a dead man with the head of a wolf.  He wore an iron crown and held a leg of lamb in one hand as a king might hold a scepter, and his eyes followed Dany with mute appeal.

This is a scene from the red wedding and the man asking for justice is Robb Stark.  Daenerys Targaryen will take control of Westeros and ascend to her father's throne.  The throne which is hers by right.  The Starks will demand revenge on the Freys and might even make it a condition to peace.  Daenerys will moderate with objectivity, intelligence, and thus fairness.  She will restrain the Starks from carrying out a complete destruction of the Freys.  Lame and Black Walder will lose their heads to the axe.  The lord of the house, Walder, will be spared because of his age.  A few of the sons may also receive the death penalty.  But at least the Frey family will remain largely intact. 

 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

I wouldn't be optimistic about Daenerys being so lenient toward a house that is so untrustworthy and has commited such a heinous betrayal and massacre, and is hated and despised by all of Westeros now and could taint on her. 

To prove that she is truly just and to get at least some approval in the North and Riverlands she'd have to make an example and punish the old weasel and most of the other Red Wedding perpetrators for their crimes. 

And I strongly doubt that Walder and most of House Frey will be alive by the time Daenerys arrive in Westeros, they will most likely have already suffered from Lady Stoneheart, the Starks and the Tullys' revenge and a civil war for the Twins once the late Walder is finally dead, and being overthrown by the revengeful Riverlords by then. Besides Aegon has more chances of being the one to deal with the rest of them with his earlier arrival and taking of the Iron Throne. 

[Seams]

I know that House of the Undying scene is often equated to the carnage of the Red Wedding, but I think we have to trust GRRM when he avoids telling us the names or identities of people in a dream or vision such as those seen by Dany in the HOTU. To me, the point is that there is an archetype of a "slaughter at a feast" and also a "king with a wolf's head." The murder of Robb Stark fits into that archetype but that does not mean that the scene in the HOTU is the same as the slaughter at the Red Wedding. 

(I would also note that the silent direwolf, Ghost, looks at Jon Snow with mute appeal because he can't make noise. So the wolf-headed king probably relates back to the mute symbolism and, with the meat scepter, the butcher king symbolism.)

Based on other patterns of "family annihilation" in ASOIAF, I suspect one Frey boy will survive. I base this on Aery's destruction of House Darklyn where Ser Dontos Hollard was spared at the request of Ser Barristan, and Tywin's destruction of House Reyne where the Last Lord Tarbeck may or may not have survived being thrown in a well. (I believe that wells are underworld passages in ASOIAF so the Tarbeck heir either survived or was magically reborn in another identity we haven't yet decoded.) 

As for the majority of the members of House Frey, I suspect our best clue comes from the name "Walder." The German word "Wald" means "woods." In ASOIAF, cutting down a tree or burning a woods has a symbolic meaning. The conflict over destroying heart trees and weirwoods is a big part of the pact between the Children of the Forest and the First Men. In The Sworn Sword, the burning of Wat's Wood is a turning point in the symbolism that allows the plot to move forward to resolution. 

We have seen individual Freys "cut down" like trees but I suspect there will be a major "forest fire" at some point that wipes out most of the family.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

16 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

I want to shine a ray of hope for the Frey family and their supporters.  The Freys will not all die.  I do not believe they will all die and they do not deserve to.  But this cannot be said with certainty because I am not Martin.  The fate of House Frey will depend on who holds power.  If it's the Starks, it's goodnight to House Frey.  We already know what Arya Stark would do. Murder all of the Freys she can.  Arya is just demented enough to poison the entire family.  At least she would make the attempt.  The family will fare no better if it's Jon Snow who gets to decide their fate.  Jon was not a forgiving man even before he was assassinated.  He will be thirsting for Bolton, Marsh, and Frey blood when he returns. 

There is hope for the Freys.  The following passage is a quote from one of Daenerys Targaryen's chapters in A Clash of Kings. 

Farther on she came upon a feast of corpses. Savagely slaughtered, the feasters lay strewn across overturned chairs and hacked trestle tables, asprawl in pools of congealing blood.  Some had lost limbs, even heads.  Severed hands clutched bloody cups, wooden spoons, roast fowl, heels of bread.  In a throne above them sat a dead man with the head of a wolf.  He wore an iron crown and held a leg of lamb in one hand as a king might hold a scepter, and his eyes followed Dany with mute appeal.

This is a scene from the red wedding and the man asking for justice is Robb Stark.  Daenerys Targaryen will take control of Westeros and ascend to her father's throne.  The throne which is hers by right.  The Starks will demand revenge on the Freys and might even make it a condition to peace.  Daenerys will moderate with objectivity, intelligence, and thus fairness.  She will restrain the Starks from carrying out a complete destruction of the Freys.  Lame and Black Walder will lose their heads to the axe.  The lord of the house, Walder, will be spared because of his age.  A few of the sons may also receive the death penalty.  But at least the Frey family will remain largely intact. 

 

Is someone fretting about this? I'm looking forward to watching the Freys do each other when the old man drops off. I don't think the fact that everyone hates them is going to mean that everyone tries to get rid of them, I just think it will mean that no one's interested in coming to their aid while they self destruct. 

[Bowen 747]

The men who took part in the wedding will die.  LSH has already began her slaughter in what could be called revenge.  It is not justice.  The Starks will not look for justice but revenge.  Dany is the best hope for justice if the Freys live that long.  Arya the homicidal girl, trained by the Faceless Men, is coming for them.  LSH, Arya, the wolves, and the corrupted Brotherhood will murder every Frey that falls into their hands.  But see, there are too many Freys spread far and wide for them all to fall into Arya's and LSH's hands.  The Frey clan is not in any danger of dying out.  Only Walder and his sons will die for the wedding.  The Starks will not come out of this without taking major damage.  Walder and his sons will die but it should cost the Starks the life of LSH and Arya.  

Spoiler

 

 

[Angel Eyes]

32 minutes ago, Bowen 747 said:

The men who took part in the wedding will die.  LSH has already began her slaughter in what could be called revenge.  It is not justice.  The Starks will not look for justice but revenge.  Dany is the best hope for justice if the Freys live that long.  Arya the homicidal girl, trained by the Faceless Men, is coming for them.  LSH, Arya, the wolves, and the corrupted Brotherhood will murder every Frey that falls into their hands.  But see, there are too many Freys spread far and wide for them all to fall into Arya's and LSH's hands.  The Frey clan is not in any danger of dying out.  Only Walder and his sons will die for the wedding.  The Starks will not come out of this without taking major damage.  Walder and his sons will die but it should cost the Starks the life of LSH and Arya.  

  Hide contents

 

 

If GRRM ever has Arya come back from Essos.

[Chancho]

if Daenerys is calling the shots, she is not a big fan of the starks anyway, freys will be punished, but not all of them, that would not feel liike justice for Daenerys or help her in any way...

Now if the outlaws somehow become some MAJOR MAJOR force, then there will be unproportional carnage, if they get inside the castle, wich is possible but improbable.

But as in the rat cook story, Walder Frey will outlive most of all his descendants and see they eating each other.

[Rondo]

Walder and most of his sons and daughters will fall to Arya's bloodlust but the grandchildren will live to carry the family genes.  Big Walder will speak for the Freys and I think Daenerys will be willing to listen.  

[Dunk_n_egg]

The Rosby Freys will most likely survive in ASOIAF. Edmure Tully married Roslin and Olyvar was Robb's squire and was not at TRW because he was deemed untrustworthy by the scheming Lothar Frey. In fact, it is my belief that Olyvar is the ward at Rosby that turned away Lady Falyse Stokeworth and is one of the claimants mentioned in the epilogue of ADWD. This would make sense as the faithful-to-the-crown Stokeworths would be unwelcome because Olyvar would still be loyal to Robb Stark. 

 Now, with Olyvar controlling the Rosby lands and Bronn controlling the Stokeworth lands, Cerci will be surrounded by her enemies and, more importantly, have no food for Kings Landing. So, however Cerci wiggles out of her trial, she will have a major shitshow on her doorstep when she begins to rule again.

[Loose Bolt]

In Norse mythology Frey is god of summer and sunshine. So House Frey will save the world by winning next Battle for the Dawn and so ending Long Night and Army of Death

[BlackLightning]

I do think that all the Freys will die out. But I don't think they will all be murdered or whatever. I think the Freys are going to kill themselves.

We're already headed towards a Frey civil war. There are way too many Freys and not enough inheritances

On 2/22/2022 at 8:29 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The lord of the house, Walder, will be spared because of his age.

Why in the world would she spare the lord of the house but kill multiple trueborn sons and bastards? And on account of age? Of all things?

You've got to be joking. His head would be the first to be put on a spike.

10 hours ago, Rondo said:

Big Walder will speak for the Freys and I think Daenerys will be willing to listen.  

Big Walder? That little monstrosity?

Come on...

 

[Quoth the raven,]

The Freys already lost Stevron, Petyr, Merrett, Little Walder, Aegon, and Jared to the Starks and their bannermen. Enough of revenge.  What crime was done as a result of the RW has been repaid. 

 

[M.Alhazred]

11 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

The Freys already lost Stevron, Petyr, Merrett, Little Walder, Aegon, and Jared to the Starks and their bannermen. Enough of revenge.  What crime was done as a result of the RW has been repaid. 

 

It's not enough. Not nearly enough.

[Apoplexy]

17 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

The Freys already lost Stevron, Petyr, Merrett, Little Walder, Aegon, and Jared to the Starks and their bannermen. Enough of revenge.  What crime was done as a result of the RW has been repaid. 

 

I'm going to leave aside the question if violence is ever justified and if it is, how much is too much. But Walder frey, the orchestrator of the RW is still alive. I expect him to die pretty soon. And I don't see the all of the freys killed, but they will probably be stripped off their lands and titles.

[Darth Sidious]

On 2/25/2022 at 5:22 PM, Quoth the raven, said:

The Freys already lost Stevron, Petyr, Merrett, Little Walder, Aegon, and Jared to the Starks and their bannermen. Enough of revenge.  What crime was done as a result of the RW has been repaid. 

 

Paid as far as I’m concerned. 

13 hours ago, M.Alhazred said:

It's not enough. Not nearly enough.

 

Many of the Freys died in the north during the battle with Stannis. They already paid with blood. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:29 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

 

Martin will give the Stark sympathizers their guilty pleasure.  House Frey will be decreased in their numbers because the Starks will get their revenge.  They will live but what kind of life will it be if their bridge is taken away. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Here's Looking At You, Kid

[Rondo]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:03 AM, BlackLightning said:

Big Walder? That little monstrosity?

Come on...

He is a smart little guy.  He was the smartest boy in Winterfell during his fostership.

[The Jingo]

If Daenerys is politically astute she will wipe out House Frey down to the last infant. These guys have blood feuds with essentially every family in the North and Riverlands. It's basically free PR to kill them. She would drastically increase her legitimacy in the eyes of the Westerosi for bringing down the "wrath of the gods" on House Frey, and suffer no downsides of any kind as long as she doesn't make a habit of wiping houses out.

[M.Alhazred]

On 2/26/2022 at 5:40 PM, Darth Sidious said:

Paid as far as I’m concerned. 

 

Many of the Freys died in the north during the battle with Stannis. They already paid with blood. 

Until the old man's head is on a pike nothing will be settled.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

Quote

"Only by fifty-two days," Little Walder objected. "And neither of us will ever hold the Twins, stupid."

 

"I will," Big Walder declared.