Hope for the Frey family

[EggBlue]

17 hours ago, Rondo said:

He is a smart little guy.  He was the smartest boy in Winterfell during his fostership.

smart little monster you mean!

• Cersei killed her best friend for fear of a prophecy at the age of 10.
• Big Walder killed his cousin as a means to elevate himself in line of succession at the age of 8-9 . 

I wonder how this one will turn out...

[Rondo]

7 hours ago, EggBlue said:

smart little monster you mean!

• Cersei killed her best friend for fear of a prophecy at the age of 10.
• Big Walder killed his cousin as a means to elevate himself in line of succession at the age of 8-9 . 

I wonder how this one will turn out...

That dirty deed was done by Mance Rayder.  The wildling killed another guest.

[EggBlue]

9 hours ago, Rondo said:

That dirty deed was done by Mance Rayder.  The wildling killed another guest.

no, it was Big Walder

 

Quote

"My brother Merrett's son." Hosteen Frey lowered the body to the floor before the dais. "Butchered like a hog and shoved beneath a snowbank. A boy."
Little Walder, thought Theon. The big one. He glanced at Rowan. There are six of them, he remembered. Any of them could have done this. But the washerwoman felt his eyes. "This was no work of ours," she said.

Quote

"And Little Walder was a piglet. Killing him brought the Freys and Manderlys to dagger points, that was cunning, you—"
"Not us." Rowan grabbed him by the throat and shoved him back against the barracks wall, her face an inch from his. "Say it again and I will rip your lying tongue out, kinslayer."

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by EggBlue

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

16 hours ago, Rondo said:

That dirty deed was done by Mance Rayder.  The wildling killed another guest.

If you're interested, I made a fairly detailed thread on this topic several years ago.

 

[Darth Sidious]

On 3/2/2022 at 11:44 AM, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

 

I like Big Walder Frey. BW and Bran would make good adversaries for each other. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Darth Sidious

[Bowen Marsh]

What a wonderful section of the book.  Daenerys at the House Of The Undying is one of my favorite point of view chapters in the whole series. 

The reason to have this hearing is the existence of a state of impasse where neither side can kill the other.  Frey and Stark, neither are strong enough to kill the other family.  A lengthy trial will take place in which both sides will get to present their grievance.  It ends with the execution of those who were directly involved in the red wedding but Daenerys will not punish the rest of the Freys.  The judgment will be correct.  The Starks will not be happy because they want to kill the Frey family.  We know that is not justice and Daenerys will not allow it.  I am hopeful that justice will be served in this trial as long as the Starks are kept in check. 

[Mordred]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:29 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

I want to shine a ray of hope for the Frey family and their supporters.  The Freys will not all die.  I do not believe they will all die and they do not deserve to.  But this cannot be said with certainty because I am not Martin.  The fate of House Frey will depend on who holds power.  If it's the Starks, it's goodnight to House Frey.  We already know what Arya Stark would do. Murder all of the Freys she can.  Arya is just demented enough to poison the entire family.  At least she would make the attempt.  The family will fare no better if it's Jon Snow who gets to decide their fate.  Jon was not a forgiving man even before he was assassinated.  He will be thirsting for Bolton, Marsh, and Frey blood when he returns. 

There is hope for the Freys.  The following passage is a quote from one of Daenerys Targaryen's chapters in A Clash of Kings. 

Farther on she came upon a feast of corpses. Savagely slaughtered, the feasters lay strewn across overturned chairs and hacked trestle tables, asprawl in pools of congealing blood.  Some had lost limbs, even heads.  Severed hands clutched bloody cups, wooden spoons, roast fowl, heels of bread.  In a throne above them sat a dead man with the head of a wolf.  He wore an iron crown and held a leg of lamb in one hand as a king might hold a scepter, and his eyes followed Dany with mute appeal.

This is a scene from the red wedding and the man asking for justice is Robb Stark.  Daenerys Targaryen will take control of Westeros and ascend to her father's throne.  The throne which is hers by right.  The Starks will demand revenge on the Freys and might even make it a condition to peace.  Daenerys will moderate with objectivity, intelligence, and thus fairness.  She will restrain the Starks from carrying out a complete destruction of the Freys.  Lame and Black Walder will lose their heads to the axe.  The lord of the house, Walder, will be spared because of his age.  A few of the sons may also receive the death penalty.  But at least the Frey family will remain largely intact. 

 

Winterfell and The Twins are strategically important locations.  A fair settlement will be needed to bring them to the Targaryen program for Westeros to have a chance at surviving through the dark winter.  I am not confident of a fair settlement.  Jon will come back and he will be mad as hell.  Arya is already murdering the victims on her list.  Old Walder is on that list. The Starks are not interested in a fair settlement to the matter.  They want revenge and they want Frey blood.  This vision is important to the overall story.  Daenerys will not give in to the Stark's demands and that will not win the Starks over.  This is a decision which will isolate the Starks and lead to their demise in the north.  

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Most Freys are going to die anyway, and ironically it may be them who'll inflict the most casualties to their own family in a civil war to inherit the Twins.

The BWB and the Starks will no doubt inflict some casualties and vengeance but they'll have to recenter their focus on the Others soon enough, letting the Freys do most of the job themselves. 

 

 

[Rondo]

On 2/25/2022 at 5:22 PM, Quoth the raven, said:

The Freys already lost Stevron, Petyr, Merrett, Little Walder, Aegon, and Jared to the Starks and their bannermen. Enough of revenge.  What crime was done as a result of the RW has been repaid. 

 

Rhaegar Frey was another casualty.  

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

15 hours ago, Rondo said:

Rhaegar Frey was another casualty.  

Didn't he just get lost somewhere?

[Jaenara Belarys]

1 hour ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Didn't he just get lost somewhere?

Spoiler

Well, it's all a big massive conspiracy to take away everything that the Freys have built, on a foundation of blood and betray-no, brotherly love and sacrifice for the Big Bad Starks. Obviously the Manderlys are in kahoots with Jon, Sansa and Mad Little Arya, along with Jeff Bezos and Kim-Jong un. 

 

[EggBlue]

4 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Didn't he just get lost somewhere?

isn't there a theory that Manderly killed , baked and ate him? anyways, it's totally possible that Manderly had given him a bad horse that gets him lost and eventually killed

[Targaryen Restoration]

Arya Stark will have to die for a peace treaty between the two families.  Which is fine by me.  The Freys will have the moral high ground if Arya starts killing them.  The Starks will have no moral ground to stand on. 

[Seams]

On 3/9/2022 at 9:48 AM, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Didn't he just get lost somewhere?

Rhaegar is Jinglebell's real name. He was a casualty because Catelyn slit his throat. 

[EggBlue]

12 minutes ago, Seams said:

Rhaegar is Jinglebell's real name. He was a casualty because Catelyn slit his throat. 

no, that was Aegon. Rhaegar was the one betrothed to Manderly's eldest daughter.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

28 minutes ago, Seams said:

Rhaegar is Jinglebell's real name. He was a casualty because Catelyn slit his throat. 

Aegon the Fool with the bells in his antlered helmet... THAT was some loaded scene, huh?

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the Rhaegar Frey who Manderley called a 'smirking worm who wears a dragon's name' and the theory that Manderley put him in the pies.

Aegon's probably the closest we get to a Frey with a single  redeeming quality. I don't know why Rondo'd focus on Rhaegar when we've got Cat 'red handed' as it were.

[Seams]

41 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

no, that was Aegon.

You're right. I need to do a re-read.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

The Freys do not deserve any more punishment.  Cat and the nasty Wayman have done enough.  Punish the Starks for dragging the Freys into their rebellion. 

[EggBlue]

9 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The Freys do not deserve any more punishment.  Cat and the nasty Wayman have done enough.  Punish the Starks for dragging the Freys into their rebellion. 

if anyone could claim that Starks dragged them into their rebellion , it's their vassals. Freys weren't dragged into anything ; they reached an agreement . granted, Starks didn't honor that agreement but that still doesn't mean they should be punished for dragging Freys into their rebellion! 

[Texas Hold Em]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:29 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

I want to shine a ray of hope for the Frey family and their supporters.  The Freys will not all die.  I do not believe they will all die and they do not deserve to.  But this cannot be said with certainty because I am not Martin.  The fate of House Frey will depend on who holds power.  If it's the Starks, it's goodnight to House Frey.  We already know what Arya Stark would do. Murder all of the Freys she can.  Arya is just demented enough to poison the entire family.  At least she would make the attempt.  The family will fare no better if it's Jon Snow who gets to decide their fate.  Jon was not a forgiving man even before he was assassinated.  He will be thirsting for Bolton, Marsh, and Frey blood when he returns. 

There is hope for the Freys.  The following passage is a quote from one of Daenerys Targaryen's chapters in A Clash of Kings. 

Farther on she came upon a feast of corpses. Savagely slaughtered, the feasters lay strewn across overturned chairs and hacked trestle tables, asprawl in pools of congealing blood.  Some had lost limbs, even heads.  Severed hands clutched bloody cups, wooden spoons, roast fowl, heels of bread.  In a throne above them sat a dead man with the head of a wolf.  He wore an iron crown and held a leg of lamb in one hand as a king might hold a scepter, and his eyes followed Dany with mute appeal.

This is a scene from the red wedding and the man asking for justice is Robb Stark.  Daenerys Targaryen will take control of Westeros and ascend to her father's throne.  The throne which is hers by right.  The Starks will demand revenge on the Freys and might even make it a condition to peace.  Daenerys will moderate with objectivity, intelligence, and thus fairness.  She will restrain the Starks from carrying out a complete destruction of the Freys.  Lame and Black Walder will lose their heads to the axe.  The lord of the house, Walder, will be spared because of his age.  A few of the sons may also receive the death penalty.  But at least the Frey family will remain largely intact. 

 

Revenge is not the point of the story but neither is forgiveness.  Being able to work together with people they cannot forgive is the point.  Those families who can put aside their hate and work with enemies for mutual survival will survive.  That is not going to be the Starks unless Jon and Arya are both ripening 6 feet below ground.  Serving the Others is what will enable the Starks to survive but they will be mankind's enemies.  They will get their revenge on the Freys but it will cost them their humanity.