Hope for the Frey family

[KingintheNorth4]

There is such a thing as having too much hope for something.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

13 hours ago, Darth Sidious said:

Jon returns as a “wight” similar to Coldhands. He will use his Skinchanging to lead the wights on a path of death and destruction. Castle Black, the Dreadfort, Karhold, and onto the Riverlands. 

But coldhands can't lead the wights. I just don't get why Jon would be able to lead them. 

[Darth Sidious]

7 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

But coldhands can't lead the wights. I just don't get why Jon would be able to lead them. 

Coldhands is not strong enough in Skinchanging. Jon may be. 

[Lady Anna]

I don't think the entire House will be wiped out but they will always be known for what they did. I think they will be pariahs to everyone in Westeros from now on and they'll probably lose the Twins. The North (and this includes the Riverlands as part of the kingdom) will never forget the Red Wedding and I think it's one of the reasons why they will continue to proclaim independence from the South.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

5 hours ago, Darth Sidious said:

Coldhands is not strong enough in Skinchanging. Jon may be. 

So you think he will control them like Bran does Hodor? 

[Hugorfonics]

10 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

So you think he will control them like Bran does Hodor? 

That sounds kinda cool

[BalerionTheCat]

Many and most of Freys will die. But at some point it will not matter if it is by LSH, the Brotherhood, the riverlanders, the Others, the Cold or Hunger. Some are good people, innocent of the RW. Some may even become heroes of the Long Night. The Frey people are not that much different from everyone else.No one has to pay for those bearing the same name.

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

On 2/22/2022 at 9:29 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

I want to shine a ray of hope for the Frey family and their supporters.  The Freys will not all die.  I do not believe they will all die and they do not deserve to.  But this cannot be said with certainty because I am not Martin.  The fate of House Frey will depend on who holds power.  If it's the Starks, it's goodnight to House Frey.  We already know what Arya Stark would do. Murder all of the Freys she can.  Arya is just demented enough to poison the entire family.  At least she would make the attempt.  The family will fare no better if it's Jon Snow who gets to decide their fate.  Jon was not a forgiving man even before he was assassinated.  He will be thirsting for Bolton, Marsh, and Frey blood when he returns. 

There is hope for the Freys.  The following passage is a quote from one of Daenerys Targaryen's chapters in A Clash of Kings. 

Farther on she came upon a feast of corpses. Savagely slaughtered, the feasters lay strewn across overturned chairs and hacked trestle tables, asprawl in pools of congealing blood.  Some had lost limbs, even heads.  Severed hands clutched bloody cups, wooden spoons, roast fowl, heels of bread.  In a throne above them sat a dead man with the head of a wolf.  He wore an iron crown and held a leg of lamb in one hand as a king might hold a scepter, and his eyes followed Dany with mute appeal.

This is a scene from the red wedding and the man asking for justice is Robb Stark.  Daenerys Targaryen will take control of Westeros and ascend to her father's throne.  The throne which is hers by right.  The Starks will demand revenge on the Freys and might even make it a condition to peace.  Daenerys will moderate with objectivity, intelligence, and thus fairness.  She will restrain the Starks from carrying out a complete destruction of the Freys.  Lame and Black Walder will lose their heads to the axe.  The lord of the house, Walder, will be spared because of his age.  A few of the sons may also receive the death penalty.  But at least the Frey family will remain largely intact. 

 

The security of the House is dependent on the Lannisters and the latter's hold on the throne.  The Starks and the northerners will butcher them if the Lannisters were to show any signs of weakness.  The Lannisters will go down because they have too many enemies.  The cold of the Starks will creep into the riverlands soon after that.  The Freys may be saved and something close to justice will be carried out if Daenerys can get to Westeros in time to prevent the Starks from indiscriminate butchery. 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

23 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

That sounds kinda cool

It does, I don't think it will happen but we will probably never get the end of the series so we can believe whatever we want haha

[Hugorfonics]

6 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

It does, I don't think it will happen but we will probably never get the end of the series so we can believe whatever we want haha

Oh no! Positive thinking Lyanna! Lol

Maybe it's better this way, all the Jon haters can believe he and Arya will get murdered while the Freys live lavishly, the Sansa Stans will forever have their gentle hearted Little Bird and I'll have my Ramsay Ahai 

 

The others being just skinchanged two legged direwolves does sound like it carries some merit tho. In the show the skinchanged changed eye color, or was it Bran? I don't remember, stupid show lol... But in the books nobody has blue eyes but wights, so maybe it's different. Like Mel and her ruby maybe?

I don't think theirs an other king like the one Arya shanked in HBO, so maybe it's like one Other to a wight? Or like one other to a wight and Ice Spider?

 

 

[Rondo]

On 4/1/2022 at 1:07 PM, Loose Bolt said:

They did that. After all standard policy of House Stark was to wipe out all hostile males and rape/marry their daughters to secure their status as rulers of the North and gain all possible useful abilities for their own bloodline.

The punishment for the Others when they lost long ago was the removal of this trait from their genes.  The Nights Queen was most likely killed.  It kept the threat of the Others down for thousands of years until they can do their own genetics experiment.  Craster comes along with the Stark genes and he made it easier for them when he started practicing incest.  They were able to build their numbers of skin changers through his sons.  They were and are turning his sons.  

[The Young Maester]

Never bothered even glancing at this thread. But now that I did I just wanna say something regarding OPs comment.

On 2/22/2022 at 10:29 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Daenerys Targaryen will take control of Westeros and ascend to her father's throne.  The throne which is hers by right.  The Starks will demand revenge on the Freys and might even make it a condition to peace.  Daenerys will moderate with objectivity, intelligence, and thus fairness.  She will restrain the Starks from carrying out a complete destruction of the Freys.

More like if Dany were to roast the twins to crisp and massacre every single member. Shes likely to receive the fealty of half a dozen lords. All without having to shed a single drop of blood (except for frey blood of course).

On 2/22/2022 at 10:29 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The lord of the house, Walder, will be spared because of his age.

Lol

[Darth Sidious]

On 4/2/2022 at 9:25 PM, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

So you think he will control them like Bran does Hodor? 

I would think it’d be easier. Hodor has more of a will. 

[Groo]

A lot of this discussion reminds me of Twyin's response when Tyrion questions him about all of this. "Explain to me why it is more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle than a dozen at dinner." At first that sounds philosophical, maybe even profound, but it's just more BS from Tywin. It wasn't just a dozen nobles at dinner. How many hundreds or thousands of ordinary soldiers were massacred? We learn from Sallahdor Saan that it's the smallfolk who have named it the "Red Wedding". The Sparrows and other leaders of the Faith are preaching to angry mobs about the Red Wedding and the violation of guest rights. They aren't doing it because they're Stark supporters or even supporters of the North. The Brotherhood Without Banners attracts followers because it is supposedly fighting for the smallfolk. The BWB is killing a lot of Freys and I don't think they're doing it just because Lady Stoneheart is ordering it. She's a symbol and constant reminder of the horrors of the massacre.  But, sure, let's just talk about this like it's nothing more than a feud between two noble families that needs to be adjudicated.

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

Would Daenerys even know who's innocent and not? Considering how much of House Frey took part in the execution of the Red Wedding, I'd expect everyone from the Wall to Harrenhal to call for a lot of blood and Daenerys will be happy to carry out the death penalty for House Frey if it means getting the support of the North and the Riverlands.

Oh and when she finds out their treachery she will definitely not trust them one bit.

[Aline de Gavrillac]

People die during a rebellion and the Starks started it.  Robb and his banners knew the risk but they decided to go to war anyway. There are enough suffering inflicted on the Freys to avenge a violation of custom.  The sons of the lord of the house have been systematically and cruelly murdered by LSH and her bitter band of troublemakers.  Daenerys Targaryen is not going to approve the murder of the Frey family.  She may agree to the executions of Black Walder and Lame Lothar though. 

[The Lord of the Crossing]

The red wedding was a war strategy to get rid of a rebellious lord who got into his head to declare a portion of Westeros as his own kingdom.  It may have saved a lot of loyalists' lives.  Many more lives on both sides would have been lost if they had fought a traditional battle. 

[James Arryn]

3 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The red wedding was a war strategy to get rid of a rebellious lord who got into his head to declare a portion of Westeros as his own kingdom.  It may have saved a lot of loyalists' lives.  Many more lives on both sides would have been lost if they had fought a traditional battle. 

‘Explain to me why it is more noble to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians by aerial bombardment than a hundred with a suicide bomb.’

Edited May 1, 2022 by James Arryn

[EggBlue]

1 hour ago, James Arryn said:

‘Explain to me why it is more noble to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians by aerial bombardment than a hundred with a suicide bomb.’

*planting a bomb

Red Wedding is more like killing a hundred people by planting a bomb under their dinner table and watch them explode

[the trees have eyes]

6 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The red wedding was a war strategy to get rid of a rebellious lord who got into his head to declare a portion of Westeros as his own kingdom.  It may have saved a lot of loyalists' lives.  Many more lives on both sides would have been lost if they had fought a traditional battle. 

The Freys were rebels themselves.  They then betrayed the Starks-Tullys to join the side that appeared to be winning.  Even Jaime throws this in their faces at Riverrun when they are besieging it later on.  I hope you are not insinuating the Freys are loyalists as it's not at all the case.

Is it understandable to change sides in warfare?  Yes.  Is it considered honourable?  No.  And the price of the Freys turning their cloaks was murdering a lot of men who had been granted safe conduct.  It makes perfect sense for Tywin as the infamy attaches to Walder Frey and Roose Bolton but they have just painted targets on themselves as the families of their victims will not forget.