Hope for the Frey family

[the trees have eyes]

1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

 

The children of the house do not need to suffer.  Big Walder, little Cersei, Elmar, and Olvar will build the strong foundation of the Frey future.  I don't want Lord Walder to die.  I think Daenerys on the throne is the best hope of a just judgment for the House of Frey.  The Twins, bridge, and lands need to remain with the Freys because they know how to operate the business.  I am biased but those are my wishes for the Freys.  It is the Starks who more deserved to lose their titles because of their penchant for rebellions. 

I feel that taxing trade across the only bridge over a river for hundreds of miles is not a specialist business skill or an operation that only the Freys could manage.

The Freys are married into multiple Riverland Houses and many in the Westerlands and elsewhere, how not when Walder had dozens of children, grand- and great-grandchildren?  The spouses and children of these unions will suffer no consequences but the Freys will be disinherited and the adult males involved in The Red Wedding will face capital punishment, either formally or in revenge killings (BwB, Manderly, GreatJon Umber, etc, etc).

Like the Boltons it's hard to see how they would ever be trusted again and Houses do fail or fall: Gardener, Whent, Durrandon and so on.

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

On 1/24/2023 at 6:57 AM, the trees have eyes said:

I feel that taxing trade across the only bridge over a river for hundreds of miles is not a specialist business skill or an operation that only the Freys could manage.

The Freys are married into multiple Riverland Houses and many in the Westerlands and elsewhere, how not when Walder had dozens of children, grand- and great-grandchildren?  The spouses and children of these unions will suffer no consequences but the Freys will be disinherited and the adult males involved in The Red Wedding will face capital punishment, either formally or in revenge killings (BwB, Manderly, GreatJon Umber, etc, etc).

Like the Boltons it's hard to see how they would ever be trusted again and Houses do fail or fall: Gardener, Whent, Durrandon and so on.

True, many will find it hard to trust the Freys.  But if we use the same idea, many would find it very hard to ever trust the word of a Stark.  Robb Stark broke his oath to Lord Walder Frey.  Jon Snow broke his vows to the Night's Watch.  So in this, I say both families will have a terrible time earning trust again.  Both families violated something considered sacred. 

 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

5 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

True, many will find it hard to trust the Freys.  But if we use the same idea, many would find it very hard to ever trust the word of a Stark.  Robb Stark broke his oath to Lord Walder Frey.  Jon Snow broke his vows to the Night's Watch.  So in this, I say both families will have a terrible time earning trust again.  Both families violated something considered sacred. 

 

Robb Stark breaking his marriage pact to Walder Frey is very far from being as grave as breaking sacred hospitality and slaughtering your own guests in masse and desecrating dead bodies. And nothing Jon did is even remotely comparable to what the Freys did. 

Not counting that Freys had already broken their oaths many times before and weren't already particularly trusted or respected because of it as a result. 

And that the Starks haven't betrayed their own countrymen and have many loyalists. 

So the two houses are very hardly in the same boat.

 

[Kierria]

You @Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 are applying double-standards.  The breaking of an oath is something taken very seriously in Westeros.  Robb and Jon are known oathbreakers.  Ned confessed to treason and the public was not happy about it.  House Stark will have a difficult time earning trust again. 

This is the best hope for the Freys.  Someone who was not involved in the wedding should do the judging and the sentencing. 

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, Kierria said:

You @Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 are applying double-standards.  The breaking of an oath is something taken very seriously in Westeros.  Robb and Jon are known oathbreakers.  Ned confessed to treason and the public was not happy about it.  House Stark will have a difficult time earning trust again. 

This is the best hope for the Freys.  Someone who was not involved in the wedding should do the judging and the sentencing. 

And you are either being disingenuous ou intellectually dishonest. Robb swore no vows, he made a marriage pact - enormous difference. Moreover, nothing is as sacred as guest right. 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

1 hour ago, Kierria said:

You @Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 are applying double-standards.  The breaking of an oath is something taken very seriously in Westeros.  Robb and Jon are known oathbreakers.  Ned confessed to treason and the public was not happy about it.  House Stark will have a difficult time earning trust again. 

This is the best hope for the Freys.  Someone who was not involved in the wedding should do the judging and the sentencing. 

There is no double-standard, neither Ned nor Robb made and broke sacred vows, marriage pacts aren't deemed to be sacred by any religion unlike guest rights. 

And the Freys are far worse oathbreakers than any of the Starks, having broken oaths on a far more regular basis, and done far far worse things than the Starks who at least didn't violate guest rights in the worst way possible nor desecrated bodies and mocked any funeral rite. 

The Starks and the Freys are absolutely not in the same position. 

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

10 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

True, many will find it hard to trust the Freys.  But if we use the same idea, many would find it very hard to ever trust the word of a Stark.  Robb Stark broke his oath to Lord Walder Frey.  Jon Snow broke his vows to the Night's Watch.  So in this, I say both families will have a terrible time earning trust again.  Both families violated something considered sacred. 

 

Breaking a marriage pact is nowhere near the level of guest right. I don’t know what to tell you. The Starks STILL have the trust of most of the North. The Freys are the most hated family in all of Westeros. You are just unequivocally wrong.

[Northern Sword]

2 hours ago, Kierria said:

You @Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 are applying double-standards.  The breaking of an oath is something taken very seriously in Westeros.  Robb and Jon are known oathbreakers.  Ned confessed to treason and the public was not happy about it.  House Stark will have a difficult time earning trust again. 

This is the best hope for the Freys.  Someone who was not involved in the wedding should do the judging and the sentencing. 

You can't be serious. In the books it is repeatedly stated how sacred Guest Right is . The whole story of the Rat Cook ?! 

To suggest Ned and his sons have somehow a similar reputation of oath breaking as Walder Frey is ludicrous. 

Guest Right is supersedes all. The Freys will never recover.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

5 minutes ago, Northern Sword said:

You can't be serious. In the books it is repeatedly stated how sacred Guest Right is . The whole story of the Rat Cook ?! 

To suggest Ned and his sons have somehow a similar reputation of oath breaking as Walder Frey is ludicrous. 

Guest Right is supersedes all. The Freys will never recover.

These people don’t care about what the books say. They’ve made up a story in their mind and that’s how it truly plays out.

[the trees have eyes]

10 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

True, many will find it hard to trust the Freys.  But if we use the same idea, many would find it very hard to ever trust the word of a Stark.  Robb Stark broke his oath to Lord Walder Frey.  Jon Snow broke his vows to the Night's Watch.  So in this, I say both families will have a terrible time earning trust again.  Both families violated something considered sacred. 

Robb broke a promise to marry a man's daughter; he made restitution by Edmure marrying one of Walder's daughters in his place.  Walder Frey slaughtered thousands of men and murdered dozens of guests from noble families in The North and Riverlands under his own roof.

What harm did Robb really do the Freys other than a bit of injured pride and what possible restitution can the Frey family make after The Red Wedding?

You are drawing an utterly repugnant false equivalence that beggars belief and it's absurd to see people engage in this nonsense.

As for trust: why does one of the Mormont girls write to Stannis to say they will recognise no king whose name is not Stark?  Why does Stannis offer to legitimise Jon and make him Lord of Winterfell?

This stuff is not hard to pick up from the books, really it's not, you might try reading them some time 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

On 2/9/2023 at 10:50 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

True, many will find it hard to trust the Freys.  But if we use the same idea, many would find it very hard to ever trust the word of a Stark.  Robb Stark broke his oath to Lord Walder Frey.  Jon Snow broke his vows to the Night's Watch.  So in this, I say both families will have a terrible time earning trust again.  Both families violated something considered sacred. 

 

Sure, the Frey's & Robb both broke their promise but look at the difference between them. Walder refused to come to the aid of his liege lord to begin with, then demanded compensation for Robb's army to pass through even though, rightfully, according to the rules of a feudal society, he owed alligance to Robb & should have let him pass with out all that. BUT that didn't happen. Robb offered Walder terms that he accepted. Robb, did not adhere to those terms = broke his oath. What did he do though? He went to Walder, like a man, explained what happened & offered a solution that would allow Walder to have one of his kin married off to a Lord, just like the original deal. Walder accepted these terms but wasn't happy with them apparently = broke his oath. But what did he do when he broke his oath? He traded sides & set up a slaughter. 

Which of the oaths of the NW did Jon break? 

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

1 hour ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

Sure, the Frey's & Robb both broke their promise but look at the difference between them. Walder refused to come to the aid of his liege lord to begin with, then demanded compensation for Robb's army to pass through even though, rightfully, according to the rules of a feudal society, he owed alligance to Robb & should have let him pass with out all that. BUT that didn't happen. Robb offered Walder terms that he accepted. Robb, did not adhere to those terms = broke his oath. What did he do though? He went to Walder, like a man, explained what happened & offered a solution that would allow Walder to have one of his kin married off to a Lord, just like the original deal. Walder accepted these terms but wasn't happy with them apparently = broke his oath. But what did he do when he broke his oath? He traded sides & set up a slaughter. 

Which of the oaths of the NW did Jon break? 

See this is a reasonable and coherent thought. The people thinking the Frey’s were victims who did nothing wrong don’t care about reason and rational thought. They either blindly hate the Starks and want to hate them so they make a mountain out of a mole hill, or they are just straight up trolling. We need to just ignore threads like this.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 hour ago, Prince Rhaegar Targareyen said:

See this is a reasonable and coherent thought. The people thinking the Frey’s were victims who did nothing wrong don’t care about reason and rational thought. They either blindly hate the Starks and want to hate them so they make a mountain out of a mole hill, or they are just straight up trolling. We need to just ignore threads like this.

I know. The thing is, there is so much gray area in this series & it is fun to discuss & dissect. But when people insist on making things up, it doesn't produce a very fruitful discussion. 

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

10 minutes ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

I know. The thing is, there is so much gray area in this series & it is fun to discuss & dissect. But when people insist on making things up, it doesn't produce a very fruitful discussion. 

All it does is puss off people who’ve actually read the books

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

It has been a year since I started this topic.  I am still hopeful that the Freys will receive mercy and get a fair judgment from Queen Daenerys.  I still feel that is the only hope for a fair trial for the Freys.  The Starks and the north are barbaric.  If Jon Snow is a typical north man then they are not capable of reasonable judgment.  The reasonable north man died when Ned lost his life. 

[Alester Florent]

1 hour ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

It has been a year since I started this topic.  I am still hopeful that the Freys will receive mercy and get a fair judgment from Queen Daenerys. 

So am I. A fair judgment for the Freys would entail any who had any involvement in the Red Wedding being roasted by Drogon. With Walder and Lame Lothar, maybe let Viserion play catch with them.

[Craving Peaches]

7 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Starks and the north are barbaric.  If Jon Snow is a typical north man then they are not capable of reasonable judgment.

Ah yes, generalising about an entire ethnic group you've never even met. Well done.

[Maegor_the_Cool]

The Freys deserve to be thrown out of the Twins and attainted as a family. Those involved in the Red Wedding deserve to be killed.

[kissdbyfire]

10 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

It has been a year since I started this topic.  I am still hopeful that the Freys will receive mercy and get a fair judgment from Queen Daenerys.  I still feel that is the only hope for a fair trial for the Freys.  The Starks and the north are barbaric.  If Jon Snow is a typical north man then they are not capable of reasonable judgment.  The reasonable north man died when Ned lost his life. 

Do you know what I love most about these ridiculous arguments and statements you and your mates like to make? I'll give you a clue: it isn't how you either twist the text or can't understand the text when it comes to Jon and the Starks. 

No, what I love most is how you apparently don't understand Dany either, like, not at all. Because you seem to 'think' that in a RW scenario, Dany would side w/ the Freys and absolve them all and congratulate them on their accomplishments. Sorry to break this bit of bad news to you, but she wouldn't; she would be horrified and appalled by the treachery and betrayal. 

[Craving Peaches]

10 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Starks and the north are barbaric.

This reminds me of the view some English aristocrats and politicians had (and perhaps still have...) towards Scottish people (and plenty of others). And you make this claim despite mounds of evidence to the contrary in the books. I'm not really surprised, but I would think that perhaps more thought would go into the kind of impression you give others, which is that of a possessor of bigoted and illogical and ridiculous views.