Ukraine- War.

[briantw]

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

If the Russian troops are showing restraint… is it a morale move by officer corp to keep their soliders from sympathizing with the Ukrainians or is it a “hearts and minds” move to try to win over the Ukrainians?

Probably more likely to be that Putin doesn't want social media filled with videos of Russian soldiers shooting and bombing civilians.  They're already being (justifiably) painted as the villains in this conflict, and the worse acts they commit, the more likely other countries will get increasingly involved. 

Russian soldiers reportedly have pretty low morale as well, so that surely plays into it at least a bit.  It's one thing to be fighting for a cause you believe in like the Ukrainians, who are literally fighting for their lives, their homes, their freedom, and their very way of life.  It's another to be invading a country that has done nothing to you in order to score more land for your country's billionaires.

[Larry of the Lawn]

38 minutes ago, Werthead said:

 

The secret of battle: indomitable conviction, unconquerable belief!

[Spockydog]

Further to some of the earlier discussion regarding sport, and how it connects to this entire debacle, here is the always excellent Barney Ronay's take from today's Guardian:

Uefa and Fifa are too late: Russia’s sportswashing has served its purpose

Quote

 

Mission accomplished. Gather up the buffet. Pack away the trinkets. Shred the manual of state-approved menacing platitudes. Sport has served its purpose here. And whatever it might choose to do from this point, all that really seems certain is that Vladimir Putin will not be listening.

Thank you, Fifa, Uefa, the IOC and our many commercial partners, for your invaluable help with the messaging. That is a wrap.

It is hard to know what to do with the news that Uefa plans to move the Champions League final from St Petersburg, Putin’s home town, as an act of censure for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. This is of course a necessary step, not least for security reasons, and beyond that for Uefa’s own troubled optics.

But the relocation of a final, as the bullets fly in Kyiv, is also a study in pointlessness. From here Uefa’s act of reputation management can only have any worth if all of us, from spineless governing bodies, to useful idiots of the media (present), to consumers everywhere, are willing to learn a very hard and very modern lesson.

The only dissenting voice at Fifa’s special committee meeting on Friday is likely to have been Alexander Dyukov, president of the Russian FA and chairman of the board at Gazprom, although even he is unlikely to care too much at this late stage. Schalke can remove the Gazprom logo from its shirts. Uefa can reconsider its sponsorship deal with the Russian state gas provider.

But the day has already moved on. The sportswashing has happened. Commerce, politics and televised sporting entertainment have served their purpose. Putin’s Russia has gained influence, soft power, and legitimacy. The home public has been placated. Sochi and Moscow have been used to dole out favours to Putin’s loyal lieutenants.

We are at a stage where taking the Champions League final away is like relying on a pointed clearing of the throat to deter the gang of masked men halfway up the stairs, coshes in hand. Putin is already raining death down on the people of Ukraine. He doesn’t care, at this stage, exactly where the football’s going to be played.

If sport can take anything from this horror it is that we now know beyond any doubt that this is all for real. That those who talk – so tiresomely: the game’s on! – about dictatorships and human rights are speaking from a place of real consequences.

 

 

[IheartIheartTesla]

Ukraine has asked Apple (to be specific, the vice PM wrote a letter to Tim Cook) asking Russian citizens be barred from the Apple store. In all honesty that may hurt more than all the fairly toothless non-SWIFT sanctions.

[Spockydog]

16 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Ukraine has asked Apple (to be specific, the vice PM wrote a letter to Tim Cook) asking Russian citizens be barred from the Apple store. In all honesty that may hurt more than all the fairly toothless non-SWIFT sanctions.

Can't see them going out on a limb like this.

[Padraig]

3 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

No, I’m putting faith in global powers to find means to reestablish and preserve peace that don’t include military engagement. Because I’m idealistic and naive enough to want to believe that war isn’t the only way to achieve peace. 

That is very understandable.  Unfortunately, Putin invades countries because he believes he can win.  Sometimes the only way to reestablish peace is to show you are willing to fight for it.  Put a lot of doubt in Putin's mind.  And then you'll never have to utilise the forces you have gathered.

It's a crazy world but the only one we have.

3 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Now of course, western media shouldn't talk about this. It's plain obvious why they shouldn't, I'm not stupid. Noone would in their place. But putting someone among the good guys just because he is friends with some good guys isn't working. The enemy of my enemy could be my friend, but that friend can still be an asshole. As if it never happened, seriously. Maybe take another look at his Wikipedia page and read the whole thing, I really can't say anything more.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove  That Ukraine is far from a perfect country?  Sure, you live close to it, so you hear a lot about it.  And that has its own biases.  But, have you listened to the news beyond your small corner of the world?  There is a lot of terrible stuff going on in all corners of the world.  People are well aware of how grey things are.

But Ukraine is been attacked by Putin right now.  How in the world do you focus exclusively on Ukraine's ills given that?  Russia can top any ill you point at Ukraine, without even trying. 

I feel I should give you advice.  Maybe read different news outlets?  Go for a walk?  But rest assured that we don't think Ukrainians are angels. 

Good luck with your journey!

[Jaxom 1974]

20 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Ukraine has asked Apple (to be specific, the vice PM wrote a letter to Tim Cook) asking Russian citizens be barred from the Apple store. In all honesty that may hurt more than all the fairly toothless non-SWIFT sanctions.

And then you have sanctions like these.. 

 

[Larry of the Lawn]

6 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

And then you have sanctions like these.. 

 

Reliable access to free internet porn ushers in a new paradigm of international relations.  

[The Dragon Demands]

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

 

Who the fuck is planning this operation? This is stuff the Russians knew how to do before Barbarossa was halfway over, and that was eighty years ago.

I'm starting to suspect that Putin went the Cersei rout of promoting up military commanders based on loyalty rather than capability.

[Lord of Oop North]

This lady, fucking stone cold.

BBC News - Ukraine: Woman confronts armed Russian soldier
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60525996

Quote

"Take these seeds, so sunflowers grow when you die here!"

 

 

[The Dragon Demands]

2 hours ago, Werthead said:

Jesus.

The professionalism of the Ukrainian army has left the Russians in the dust. This was cool, collected, disciplined counter against a shambolic attack.

After the dust settles from this, there will be heads rolling in the Russian military. They will need a total head-to-tail reorganisation, like they were supposed to have after Georgia in 2008.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1941_Red_Army_Purge

You're supposed to purge your military leadership of incompetents before a major invasion, before!

[IFR]

10 hours ago, Fez said:

Would topsoil disturbances account for sensors inside buildings also giving off higher readings? Because that was the pushback I saw from some people.

Just asking. I've no idea. But the idea of things going bad again at Chernobyl is terrifying.

I don't know the situation there, but it absolutely is possible. First, I made a slight but significant typo. It's ~10 microSv, not mSv (per hour).

This is very low, even if it's higher than typical background. I use the cgs convention, so 10 microSv is 1 mrem. To give you an idea of how low this is, NRC safety standards allow for a radiation worker to be exposed to up to 5 rem per year. The lowest detectable cases of radiological effects (ie cancer) is an exposure of 10 rem in a year. While it's location dependent, people generally have about 350 mrem of external exposure per year from background radiation.

If you spent 24 hours a day in this area of elevated radiation, it would take around 6 months to reach the upper limit of acceptable exposure for a radiation worker.

Safety measures with regard to radiation are very, very conservative. There's a rough rule of thumb that incidences of cancer will increase in a population by 0.055% per rem of exposure. (Note: very high single doses of radiation which result in acute radiation syndrome are quantified differently).

The background radiation in nuclear power plants tends to be lower than normal background. These instruments are very sensitive. Also, a lot of them are calibrated around the gamma energy emitted by cesium-137 and beta energy emitted by strontium-90, so they are more efficient at detecting their radioactive decays.

I can see a lot of factors involved with a hostile occupation that would lend itself to detectors picking up topsoil contamination.

[Fez]

Interesting both that Russia felt the need to ask and that Kazakhstan felt comfortable saying no:

Also from the article:

Quote

Additionally, the former Soviet republic said it is not recognizing the Russia-created breakaway republics upheld by Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, as a pretext for its aggression in Ukraine. 

I'm going to trust that NBC has verified all this if they're running it.

[Spockydog]

 

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

20 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

 

 

Clearly an angry Scottish burn… what does is say?

[A Horse Named Stranger]

"On your trolley, you stupid looking huffy little ballbag"

 

At least that's how I'd translate it.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Yeah, I mentioned it a few times, I quite enjoy the sound of Scottish. @Ser Scot A Ellison But there was really just glaikit as word you'd have to guess, no?

[karaddin]

18 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Yeah, I mentioned it a few times, I quite enjoy the sound of Scottish. @Ser Scot A Ellison But there was really just glaikit as word you'd have to guess, no?

That was the only one I didn't get, can't speak for him

[mcbigski]

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

That's why so many Russian tanks have been left as burning heaps of junk, there was no anti-infantry fire to disperse Ukrainian AT units before they got into firing range. That's ridiculous.

The bit about para-dropping special forces into an enemy AA-dominated space (as exemplified by five of the choppers in the operation being blown out of the sky in the process) without clearing the area first and then wondering why they were all killed or captured is also very cogent.

Who the fuck is planning this operation? This is stuff the Russians knew how to do before Barbarossa was halfway over, and that was eighty years ago.

Peace time generals and admirals move up the chain with a lot of irrelevant priorities.  Hell the US navy can't steer straight or even put out fires these days.  You put the current folks and procedures in charge in 41/42 and Yorktown doesn't even make it to Midway.  Or look at Lincoln cycling through all of the politically appointed generals until settling on Grant, Sherman, etc.  When was the last time the Russians fought a campaign with a similar scope?  Crimea and Georgia are small fry relatively speaking, and any of the Afghan War generals are long gone by now.  (Not that they it nailed there, but that invasion was over 40 years ago, only a few of the upper echelon even served there, I'd suspect).

2 hours ago, Fez said:

Interesting both that Russia felt the need to ask and that Kazakhstan felt comfortable saying no:

Also from the article:

Quote

Additionally, the former Soviet republic <Kasakhstan> said it is not recognizing the Russia-created breakaway republics upheld by Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, as a pretext for its aggression in Ukraine. 

I'm going to trust that NBC has verified all this if they're running it.

Yes.  Because NBC is devoted to impeccable journalistic standards.  Armies of fact checkers.  Or, they're a mega-cap company that shapes truth for the establishment.  It's a nice club, if you can join it. 

It may or may not be true, but corporate owned media can't be trusted to do anything but promote corporate interests, which are always going to somehow end up being aligned with their regulators too.  I can't suss out the angle here, but I really have a hard time trusting corporate media.  But I've been a crotchety old cynic, I've noticed.

My hope is that this stays a 2 country conflict, and that Ukraine is not weak, if I may make a Seinfeld reference.  I saw that Adam Kinzinger wants the US to enforce a no fly zone over Ukraine.  That sounds a lot like the corporate interests that profit from war are looking to expand the scope of the conflict. 

When you think about Ike warning in his farewell address about not only the military industrial complex, but the danger of science and universities being federalized, he's probably the top President of the 20th century.  Though his previous resume gives him a leg up too.  We're seeing the effect of the former directly, and secondary effects from the latter as well.  A true small r republican that one, and fine leader for free folk.

[Kalbear]

Zelensky has got the quips down. "I need ammunition, not a ride".