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Ukraine- War.


Ser Scot A Ellison
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3 minutes ago, Kalibuster said:

Zelensky has got the quips down. "I need ammunition, not a ride".

 

It's a good quote. But worth noting too that in the story US officials are apparently confirming Ukrainian claims that two Russian military transport planes were shot down overnight.

Would seem to back up the idea that Russia is doing an incredibly shit job at all this.

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12 minutes ago, Kalibuster said:

Zelensky has got the quips down. "I need ammunition, not a ride".

 

As horrible as this whole situation is, it's really cool to see this guy step up and become a worldwide hero and symbol of the fight against fascism and authoritarianism basically overnight.

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1 hour ago, Kalibuster said:

Zelensky has got the quips down. "I need ammunition, not a ride".

Good for Zelenskyy.  Seems like he gets the media game.  He's in an existential fight for his country right now.  Fuck Foggy Bottom, those guys are pro-corruption and feathering their own nest, not pro American citizen or pro American soldier..  

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I believe that the situation is more serious than events suggest. People who are typically more supportive of the Russian side are quite puzzled about the direction of the events. Donnesk? Lugansk? Ok, fine, can be understood. Whole Ukraine? and then what?

I'm looking for a tweet of some Russian oligarch  calling Lavrov and Shoigu specifically to remove Putin as it becoming clear the man has gone nuts. But I found this instead.

 

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The people of Dublin make their feeings known to the Russian Ambassador. The police pretty much just let them get on with it.

Earlier, the ambassador gets roasted in an interview

 

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7 hours ago, Padraig said:

But Ukraine is been attacked by Putin right now.  How in the world do you focus exclusively on Ukraine's ills given that?

It should be noted even the claim of any alleged mistreatment of Russian-Ukrainians exasperating tension between Ukraine and Russia is if you buy into the blood and soil logic Putin is using to invade Ukraine.

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I think it’s also important to keep in mind the last decade or so of what Russia has been doing in Ukraine, this invasion is really only the latest most extreme move. I used to think blatantly poisoning a presidential candidate in order to stop him winning an election was a move beyond reproach but that looks like small beans compared to what Putin is doing now.

Its actually unbelievable that it has gotten to this point, and that the biggest stick we can wave at him are sanctions. Sanctions he’s more than prepared for, he’s been building currency reserves for years to prepare. We can’t even have the balls to cut ourselves off from Russian gas. 

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9 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I'm from Alba Iulia. But I moved to the US in '03, so definitely not in tune with today's politics in Romania. I occasionally pay attention. How prepared is Romania for refugees?

Romania doesn't seem to be the initial taget of many refugees, however, there are still a lot of people coming for help here. I don't think Romania can be overwhelmed by people from Ukraine, based on what the media says. Where I'm from ukrainians rather only want to cross the border to Hungary, since that has been heavily overwhelmed by people fleeing, and that made crossing the romanian borders twice less time-consuming. But Ukraine and Romania share a long border, those who seek refugee in here are well treated. Haven't heard or see any problems regarding it. The government also claims to be able to take in half a million refugees at any moment, which doesn't seem to be an overexaggeration from them.

9 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

On the subject of Zelenskyy, you call him a fascist but that he is operating on a socialist platform. hmm... He has struck at the oligarch class from what I can tell. But it is a sad fact of that part of the world, Romania, Ukraine etc. that the people in power have continuously abused their power regardless of party doctrine. Still he's been president for short of 3 years. Putin has held Russia's reigns for 22 and it's clear what he is.

I may sound pro-russian with calling the ukrainian government out, but I am not. Russia's actions are completely unjustified and unacceptable. People here rather often read just the latest replies, and it is easy to misunderstand someone's point that way. But that doesn't make the ukrainian government, including Zelensky, any better. He said he was gonna struck at the oligarch class during his election campaign. That didn't come true. None of what he promised came true, in fact. Ukrainian general opinion is pretty negative about him. I personally don't consider 3 years a short period, given how his entire mandate is no longer than 5 years.  He is abusing his powers, he was even called authoritarian in western media in couple of different sources like months ago, but now of course they don't talk about these kind of things. I only watch live british and american live channels (and later look at local news), and they often put him in the position of a Saint, as if he was a symbol to Ukraine, which he is not. I honestly wish he was. I remember hearing about him for the first time, thinking this guy can only be good for Ukraine. 

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The rights and wrongs of how good Zelensky is as a president are totally irrelevant right now. His country is being invaded. He’s now a war time president.

How good he is or isn’t is a matter for the Ukrainian people, it’s not Putins business and he really doesn’t care anyway 

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18 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I may sound pro-russian with calling the ukrainian government out,

In the particular context is when the discussion is around them being invaded, you don’t sound, you just are.

19 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Russia's actions are completely unjustified and unacceptable.

You disavow them I understand.

20 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

But that doesn't make the ukrainian government, including Zelensky, any better.

By any metric even before they got invaded they are.

But they’re not being invaded for any moral failing other than not being subservient to putin.

22 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

position of a Saint

In the specific context of trying to fight off a legit fascist imperialist empire he is.

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4 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

But that doesn't make the ukrainian government, including Zelensky, any better.

It is obviously better, since it hasn't invaded another country. You are making false equivalencies.

4 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

He said he was gonna struck at the oligarch class during his election campaign.

He welcomed the US sanctions against Kolomoisky, and then late last year the anti-oligarch bill passed, with a registry of 40 individuals who are restricted from financing political activities, etc. included. But the problem of oligarchs, deeply entrenched over decades in Ukraine, is not something any one person can just solve in a couple of years. He has acted against them, as promised. Whether it will prove effective or not is a matter of debate, but pretending he did nothing is a lie.

I don't think his popularity is here or there. The fact is that frustration at the slow pace of change and his inability to end Russian aggression -- something that, obviously, we see he was never going to achieve because it is not in Putin's interests -- had a toll. And no doubt he made missteps, has made ambitious promises that he couldn't or wouldn't keep when balancing every other thing demanded of him. But he, and the Ukrainian government, are better than Putin and the Russian government. Ukraine hasn't launched a war of aggression against anyone. Simple as that.

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There are disputed reports of paratroopers repelled near Lviv, in the far west of Ukraine. Gorgeous city, wonderful people, and ffs they hate Russians there. Russians would fare better dropping into a pit full of ravenous polar bears than into Lviv.

Edited by Lightning Lord
Guardian updated to report it as uncertain news.
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Given the overwhelmingly anti-Russian attitude of pretty much everyone reporting the news, coupled with Zelensky’s obviously image savvy, social media driven propaganda campaign, I would take pretty much every report on Russian losses, tactical incompetence and setbacks with an Everest sized pinch of salt.

People are also prone to viewing Putin as irrational and stupid, when he is in fact highly intelligent and quite rational, within the parameters of his overall aims and ambitions.

He wants to protect and restore Russian power in their sphere of influence. That means he does not want to destroy Ukraine. He wants to bring it into the fold.

So that means limiting Ukrainian casualties to the absolute minimum. Even at the obvious expense of faster military progress.

That is not limited to civilians. He would even want to limit Ukrainian military deaths where possible. We aren’t seeing carpet bombing, cluster bombing or anything close to the full might of the type of mass destruction Russia can unleash if they wanted to.

Anyway, my take on his ultimate goal? Remove the government. Allow the most vehemently anti-Russian citizens to flee to neighbouring countries, maybe permanently. Predictions were that 1-5 million refugees could ultimately stream from the country. Take away those 5 million, and the voting outcomes in Ukraine might be somewhat different.

Maybe split Ukraine in two - Eastern Ukraine under Russian control, Western Ukraine aligned to the West.

Install a puppet government in the Eastern half and settle down to turn that into the long term reality on the ground.

So that’s quite rational, within the over arching goal of solidifying and restoring Russian power in its sphere of influence.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn
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The Guardian has been pretty good about specifying what is and is not verified. Like any news, it's not free from bias and I keep that in mind.

Putin isn't dumb. He's an evil, cold-hearted bastard who cares nothing for anyone or anything but himself and his own power. But he's not stupid.

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3 minutes ago, Lightning Lord said:

The Guardian has been pretty good about specifying what is and is not verified. Like any news, it's not free from bias and I keep that in mind.

Putin isn't dumb. He's an evil, cold-hearted bastard who cares nothing for anyone or anything but himself and his own power. But he's not stupid.

I also disagree that all of this is about Putin’s own power. He genuinely wants Russia as a nation to be a Great Power. Into perpetuity.

If he only cared about himself, he need not take any of these immense risks. 

Edited by Free Northman Reborn
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