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Ukraine- War.


Ser Scot A Ellison
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2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I don’t know who Klay is and as such have no context for reading the tone of his comment.  My question, stupid or not, is sincere.

Just giving you shit Scot, trying to bring some levity.  And yes, the comment is sarcasm.

Edited by DMC
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16 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I’m surprised India hasn’t jumped in to condemn the Russian invasion.  Any reason why the Indian government is straddling the line and not condemning the invasion?

Probably has its roots in the cold war, where the US aligned with Pakistan and the Soviet Union with India. A lot of military hardware India has is Russian, and while in recent years they have tried to divest from it a bit, they are still highly dependent on it. Energy may be another key factor (although interestingly the Pakistani PM was in Russia right as the invasion took place to discuss among other things a gas pipeline).

Of course, I cant stand Modi and have no sympathy for whatever dilemma he may be in, but some geopolitical realities may have forced his hand.

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Wojtek Szczęsny, Poland's and Juventus's goalkeeper on his instagram:

"My wife was born in Ukraine, there is Ukrainian blood running through the veins of my son, part of our family is still in Ukraine, a lot of my workers are Ukrainian and they’re all great people. Seeing the suffering on their faces and fear for their country makes me realise I can’t stand still and pretend that nothing has happened.

The moment Putin decided to invade Ukraine he declared war not only on Ukraine but also on all the values Europe stands for. Liberty, Independence but most of all Peace.

On 26th of March We were supposed to play against russia in a play-off match for 2022 World Cup in Qatar. And although my heart breaks while writing this, my concience will not let me play.
Representing your country is the biggest honour in a footballers career but its still a choice.
I refuse to play against players who choose to represent the values and principles of Russia!
I refuse to stand on the pitch, wearing the coulours of my country and listen to the national anthem of Russia!
I refuse to take part in a sporting even that legitimases the actions of the russian government."
 

Polish Football Association (PZPN) decided Poland will not play a play-off match against Russia, neither in Moscow (where it supposed to take place) nor on a neutral ground. 

I say it's a good call, even if it means we miss the World Cup. 

Edited by 3CityApache
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I have a terrible thought.  Do we have any idea of the preconceived notions regarding the level of quality of the Russian troop formations sent across the Ukrainian border?  

What if Putin wants us to sympathize with Ukraine?  What if he wants us to see the Russian army as inept?  What if he wants public pressure to intervene and support Ukraine militarily?  What if he’s holding back… on purpose?

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6 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I have a terrible thought.  Do we have any idea of the preconceived notions regarding the level of quality of the Russian troop formations sent across the Ukrainian border?  

What if Putin wants us to sympathize with Ukraine?  What if he wants us to see the Russian army as inept?  What if he wants public pressure to intervene and support Ukraine militarily?  What if he’s holding back… on purpose?

If the West wants to get into a war with Russia it won't be because of an overconfidence that they can sweep Russian forces out of Ukraine with ease. Russia has nukes, but it doesn't have a some secret elite army that can destroy NATO's forces conventionally. 

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10 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I have a terrible thought.  Do we have any idea of the preconceived notions regarding the level of quality of the Russian troop formations sent across the Ukrainian border?  

What if Putin wants us to sympathize with Ukraine?  What if he wants us to see the Russian army as inept?  What if he wants public pressure to intervene and support Ukraine militarily?  What if he’s holding back… on purpose?

And what would be the endgame there?

WW III firing nukes and more or less ending human life on Earth? Not that I am fundamentally opposed to the idea of giving the planet a second chance with some other species evolving from the ashes of the human empire. But this scenario is so unlikely to play out and so illogical, that it's really not worth wasting a thought on it.

Edited by A Horse Named Stranger
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9 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I have a terrible thought.  Do we have any idea of the preconceived notions regarding the level of quality of the Russian troop formations sent across the Ukrainian border?  

What if Putin wants us to sympathize with Ukraine?  What if he wants us to see the Russian army as inept?  What if he wants public pressure to intervene and support Ukraine militarily?  What if he’s holding back… on purpose?

Scot, get away from the news for a few hours. Take a nice long walk, hug some family members. 

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14 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

And what would be the endgame there?

WW III firing nukes and more or less ending human life on Earth? Not that I am fundamentally opposed to the idea of giving the planet a second chance with some other species evolving from the ashes of the human empire. But this scenario is so unlikely to play out and so illogical, that it's really not worth was a thought on it.

I recognize that.  I just keep hearing Putin being called a chess player, so, I was thinking of hypotheticals where he turns the existing situation to his advantage.  I wondered if he wants to draw NATO into a stand up fight.  

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison
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There isn't really a rational reason for such an invasion. At best Putin can hope that after a very short campaign he can install a puppet regime in Ukraine ... but even that is not very likely, considering that he would either have to occupy the territory and/or get the help of a sufficient number of collaborateurs working with him.

That will cost him much more than he can possibly gain. He is a guy shooting himself in the foot trying to pretend he shot somebody else in the foot.

The West doesn't even have to actually support Ukraine openly. We can just watch how Russia destroys itself with their second Afghanistan.

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4 minutes ago, Fury Resurrected said:

It at the very least means they’ve been listening to far right wing conspiracy theorists who definitely mean Jewish people. And I don’t think ignorance excuses them.

It doesn’t.  They know… or should know (and don’t through their deliberate ignorance).  

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4 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I recognize that.  I just keep hearing Putin being called a chees player, so, I was thinking of hypotheticals where he turns the existing situation to his advantage.  I wondered if he wants to draw NATO into a stand up fight.  

You don't really play chess, do you? If you want to stay in the chess metaphor, this is more like him over extending and leaving some weak squares behind. 

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2 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

You don't really play chess, do you? If you want to stay in the chess metaphor, this is more like him over extending and leaving some weak squares behind. 

To further that metaphor, a weaker player (me, say) might not recognize this as overextention and play into his hands. So you need a competent opponent to utilize those weak squares.

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2 hours ago, Spockydog said:

Jeez, Trump really did a number on American conservatives. The support for Putin is bizarre.

 

It's white Christian rightwing nationalism. It's always been there. Trump just gave them the okay to be as awful as they always wanted to be.

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26 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I have a terrible thought.  Do we have any idea of the preconceived notions regarding the level of quality of the Russian troop formations sent across the Ukrainian border?  

What if Putin wants us to sympathize with Ukraine?  What if he wants us to see the Russian army as inept?  What if he wants public pressure to intervene and support Ukraine militarily?  What if he’s holding back… on purpose?

Come on man. Putin’s not omniscient. He is making a play with the hand he is dealt.

Things won’t go according to plan. But what he is good at is adapting to the latest realities on the fly, and extracting what he can from it.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn
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Even if you assume he wants to lure the west into the war, they're far more likely to get drawn in if he's going for mass civilian casualties than by making it look like Ukraine might win on their own.

Even if he sees it as chess it needs to be a move that accomplishes a goal

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