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Ukraine- War.


Ser Scot A Ellison
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24 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Hard to parse that with the impotent action from the Democrats right now.

Bugger that noise. Almost no country other than Ukraine needs to have boots on the front line, lobbing cruise missiles and drone strikes on Russian military targets is enough of a military response for now.

I'm sure you can fly over there and fight if you want to.

 

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3 hours ago, Fez said:

If this ends up causing a serious split between Viktor Orban and Putin, I wonder how Carlson/Bannon/etc. will react; since they seem to hero worship both of them.

Putin - since Orban will never have the clout Putin has, and Hungary have their obligations as a NATO member, so Orban's hands are tied when it comes to times like these. He can be their hero during peace...

 

Edited by The Sunland Lord
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I'm in the middle of a couple of days off work during the week but I've basically been glued to the news all day. Mostly been thinking about how terribly unfair this is on the people of Ukraine whilst also counting my blessings that I live somewhere where I do not have to worry about things like this - we're lucky, those of us fortunate enough not to be in the middle of things like this.

I think so far it's been clear that the sanctions haven't really worked or made a dent and the rest of the world has likely failed the Ukrainian people - I don't think there are easy answers here at all

Edited by Raja
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5 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

How naive are you guys who are calling for NATO MILITARY INTERVENTION to save Ukraine?

A hot war between NATO and Russia is WW3. Don’t be insane.

 

Obviously. But there is the understandable fear/worry that if nothing substantial is done against Russia (not necessarily military action) then Putin may just be brazen enough to do more than take Ukraine. Plenty of people feel that a bully like Putin needs to get his nose bloodied hard to get him to go back to his spot.

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3 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

But there is the understandable fear/worry that if nothing substantial is done against Russia (not necessarily military action) then Putin may just be brazen enough to do more than take Ukraine. Plenty of people feel that a bully like Putin needs to get his nose bloodied hard to get him to go back to his spot.

In terms of sanctions the only thing I think would be effective that they aren't doing is pulling SWIFT access.

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36 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Obviously. But there is the understandable fear/worry that if nothing substantial is done against Russia (not necessarily military action) then Putin may just be brazen enough to do more than take Ukraine. Plenty of people feel that a bully like Putin needs to get his nose bloodied hard to get him to go back to his spot.

There is zero risk of Putin attacking any NATO member state. So all the talk of this being the equivalent of Hitler invading Poland is nonsense. 

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Hello, everyone... Hope you are all safe and sound, especially if there are Ukrainians among us.

How to comment? Well, entire day I have that Varys line about innocents suffering when high lords play game of thrones on my mind. I see the victims, the photos and everything, and it is just awful.

As for the fear of WW3, I am not one believing it. The problem here is that Putin knows the line. He may step on it, but he will never cross. And Ukraine, whether we all like to admit it or not, is not crossing the line. Because no one wants to go into war with Russia on Ukrainian soil. So, I am rather convinced that he will stop with Ukraine. You don't tickle a sleeping dragon, even though you are being very noisy in its cave.

Many people on Balkans are sadly reminiscing of 1999 Nato bombing of Yugoslavia. Unfortunately for Ukrainians, we see the consequences of ignoring United Nations. Now, Russians point out that NATO is the last one on this planet with right to speak about illegal bombings and territorial integrity. Naturally, it is just an excuse, but it is also Putin's way to show that he can ignore United Nations just as well as Clinton and NATO. 

I am afraid that Ukraine will pay the biggest price. Which, sadly, is not surprising. 

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5 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

There is zero risk of Putin attacking any NATO member state. So all the talk of this being the equivalent of Hitler invading Poland is nonsense. 

That is remarkably complacent.

i'd wait and see what savagery he inflicts on the Ukranian population before deciding if it is nonsense.

Edited by SeanF
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I am speaking as an ethnical hungarian living in Romania, actually pretty close to the tripoint of Hungary, Romania, and Ukraine.

First of all, I have no clue where the other commenters are from, but you guys often seem delusional about this. The media said Russia wouldn't invade Ukraine? Always sounded pretty delusional to me. On the other hand, Russia attacking any NATO country at the moment, or because of something you could trace back to this current conflict is delusional. Nor will he attack any Baltic countries that aren't the part of NATO. Of course the media shows this as a possibility, because they want you to condemn the actions of Russia and Putin. Which is totally fair, you should disapprove of everything that they do. I do to, 100%.

The other thing that seemed to have been discussed on this thread is Zelenskyy's actions to remain in Kyiv as if he makes a martyr of himself. I mean, he very well could be playing that role, but it won't work for simple reasons. This war is heavily influenced by public opinion. The execution of Zelenskyy would be a very, very, very unpopular move from Putin, and at the same time so unnecesarry for them. He might spend his remaining life in prison for his actions, which, in all honesty he deserves. Because surely Ukraine is the victim, but the citizens of the country, not him. He, in all fairness, is a fascist guy who is hugely responsible for the tension between the countries. Russia claims Ukraine doesn't let russians speak their native langauage. I can't confirm nor can I disprove this claim. 30% of Ukraine's population thinks of himself as russian, 50% of the population speaks russian instead of ukrainian at home, and 80% of the population speaks russian instead of ukrainian when it comes to informal situations. This was before 2014, things changed since then, and Ukraine undoubtedly tries to reduce the usage of russian langauage. However, as I said, I know nothing more about this, I'd rather talk about hungarian and romanian minorities in Ukraine (these are the two I know about because I am both a romanian and hungarian citizen). The two minorities make up about 1% of Ukraine's population, meaning they were in no way any threat to the ukrainian langauage. What did the Ukrainian government do from 2017? They imprisoned teachers who used their own langauage instead of ukrainian at school, because they made it to be against the law. The ukrainian patriots stormed churches, crowds singing their own national anthems during national holidays, torched historical buildings important to these minorities, with no consequences whatsoever. Not that it changes much, but both countries (Romania and Hungary) stated they take in as many refugees as they need.

The reason NATO countries decide not to get involved any more is the more casualties, which the public doesn't like. The intervention of the NATO the way some commenters said they should do would exponentially increase the casualties, civil ones as well. 

The only thing they can do and should do is what they do right now (altough that should be done properly). The ukrainians are fleeing the country, nothing will really change that. This is a one-sided war, with Ukraine being the punchbag. Let's hope for the quick end of this with no more casualties.

 

Edited by Daeron the Daring
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^

One of the things I learned from my frequent contact with eastern europeans is that if it wasn't for the fear of Russia, the whole belt going from the Baltic to the Caucasus (and well into Central Asia) would erupt into multiple catastrophic wars. At the same time, the people of these countries are able to tolerate, understand and have fun with each other in ways that westerners are not able to understand. Balkan parties are a thing.

 

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