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Ukraine- War.


Ser Scot A Ellison
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I dont now about the other western nations but for us in Germany this is quite a rude awakening. "Peace is great and we need to do more for the climate" was all we thought about for the last ten years (and Corona). We also tried very long and very hard to ignore the facts that Putin is not some misunderstood nice guy - and upstanding democrat- even if we did get time and again evidence of russian aggression. In the moment we can't even send substantial troups to our allies in Poland and the baltic countries because we systematically ruined our army ("war is bad pacifism is great"). I still think war is bad but to keep peace you need to have an army and be a threat. We need to rethink our policies. I think other countries will also have to reconsider, what happened yesterday will change Europe for a long time to come.

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15 hours ago, Relic said:

My friend in Poland just told me that she's getting texts from some sort of emergency system stating that there is no gas in gas stations and no cash in ATMs. Seems like many people there think Putin won't stop once he gets Kiev. 

btw I'm just reading those are fakes.

 

 

Edited by Filippa Eilhart
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13 minutes ago, JoannaL said:

I dont now about the other western nations but for us in Germany this is quite a rude awakening. "Peace is great and we need to do more for the climate" was all we thought about for the last ten years (and Corona). We also tried very long and very hard to ignore the facts that Putin is not some misunderstood nice guy - and upstanding democrat- even if we did get time and again evidence of russian aggression. In the moment we can't even send substantial troups to our allies in Poland and the baltic countries because we systematically ruined our army ("war is bad pacifism is great"). I still think war is bad but to keep peace you need to have an army and be a threat. We need to rethink our policies. I think other countries will also have to reconsider, what happened yesterday will change Europe for a long time to come.

I do think that Angela Merkel has proved to be very overrated, and that Gerhard Schroeder is a traitor.

Edited by SeanF
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5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I do think that Angela Merkel has proved to be very overrated, and that Gerhard Schroeder is a traitor.

Merkel was a political and intellectual titan compared to the venal, morally bankrupt cretins we have running things now. From my view here in the UK, she was one of the most impressive politicians I've ever seen. 

Edited by Spockydog
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36 minutes ago, broken one said:

I thought the purpose of this thread is to comment on the war.

This is interesting and uplifting, if you ask me.

 

I’m not uplifted by war commonly.  I’m deeply saddened by it.  

I’m glad the Ukrainians have the ability to fight the Russians and enough command and control to coordinate an attack on Russian supply bases in Russia.

I simply wasn’t sure what you ment.

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23 minutes ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

btw I'm just reading those are fakes.

 

 

I do not get any fakes but see queues at gas stations and ATM's. My neighbour told me yesterday she applied for passport for her and her children :rolleyes: Ukrainians kept calm to the very last moment -  my Ukrainian friend living in Poland visited her family in Łuck, returned Poland on 22 February. Just in time.

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19 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I’m not uplifted by war commonly.  I’m deeply saddened by it.  

 

You live on the other side of the ocean, man. I live 30km from Belarusian border (and Belarusian military base, now inhabited by Russian troops) and 60km from Ukrainian border. I feel mixture of anxiety, anger and excitement, supporting Ukrainians and feeling happy for their smallest success. I dream they will make it and defend themselves. Yesterday I was hardly able to focus on anything.

Edited by broken one
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22 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Merkel was a political and intellectual titan compared to the venal, morally bankrupt cretins we have running things now. From my view here in the UK, she was one of the most impressive politicians I've ever seen. 

I see her as a modern version of Stanley Baldwin.

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10 minutes ago, broken one said:

You live on the other side of the ocean, man. I live 30km from Belarusian border (and Belarusian military base, now inhabited by Russian troops) and 60km from Ukrainian border. I feel mixture of anxiety, anger and excitement, supporting Ukrainians and feeling happy for their smallest success.

I can only imagine.  God be with you, your friends, and family.

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3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:


Hitler invaded Poland under the guise of protecting ethnically German poles.

And he thought the great powers of Europe wouldn’t do much in protest.

He was ultimately right.

If Putin believe that the strongest members of nato won’t interfere then he’ll try to gobble up all the nato countries who used to be in the Soviet Union who don’t have nuclear weapons, and then some potentially.

Hence why it’s important that he fails in holding Ukraine. It’d be bad for him to get emboldened. Least for the west and US.

No, he was immediately wrong as Great Britain and France declared war on Germany a few days after the invasion of Poland, beginning the greatest war in human history - that was doing quite a bit in protest.  You can't rewrite history just to follow a perennial worst-case gut feeling.

You mentioned you felt a Russian attack on a NATO nation in 2020 would have gone unopposed by NATO's strongest members.  Do you have any evidence that the United States, France, Germany and the UK are now not currently willing to comply with the invocation of Article 5 if Russia were, for example, to invade a Baltic state or Poland? 

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How does Putin plan to hold Ukraine if he does succeed in his objective of gaining a military victory? I feel we haven't seen in recent history (past WWII) such a thing happening, one nation occupying another 'modern' nation. Putin will need way more than 200k troops to keep a nation of 40 odd million (I am counting those who remain) quiescent.

It'll end up being way more of a headache than he bargained for. Not sure what his thinking is to be honest.

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10 minutes ago, Tongue Stuck to Wall said:

No, he was immediately wrong as Great Britain and France declared war on Germany a few days after the invasion of Poland, beginning the greatest war in human history - that was doing quite a bit in protest.  You can't rewrite history just to follow a perennial worst-case gut feeling.

You should read up on the “sitzkrieg”.  Poland received little or no help from France and the UK while Hitler invaded.

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3 minutes ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

you haven't heard of the Western betrayal, then?

Sure, the UK failed utterly in (and arguably completely betrayed or forget) its declared war aim of liberating Poland

But nonetheless they reacted strongly to Hitler's invasion. And it did not end well for Hitler.

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2 minutes ago, A wilding said:

Sure, the UK failed utterly in (and arguably completely betrayed or forget) its declared war aim of liberating Poland

But nonetheless they reacted strongly to Hitler's invasion. And it did not end well for Hitler.

also didn't end well for 20% of the Polish population who died in the war.

Anyway, it helps explain why a lot of Poles are not sure Nato will be much of a help if Putin decides to attack.

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4 minutes ago, A wilding said:

Sure, the UK failed utterly in (and arguably completely betrayed or forget) its declared war aim of liberating Poland

But nonetheless they reacted strongly to Hitler's invasion. And it did not end well for Hitler.

When?  When did France and the UK attack the Germans?

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