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Ukraine: Holding


Ser Scot A Ellison
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27 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:

Thank you for this, it's like we are living in different worlds. The hypocresy is horrible and so strange, like how do you even do that?

I really wonder what this board would be saying if the same reaction and sanctions that have been  applied to russia where applied to the  usa for the iraq invasion.

You seem to forget that many on this board  were against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan even when most Americans here were on the pro war train post 9/11

Few of the UK people I know from here were pro war(fuck Tony Blair btw).

Edited by Luzifer's right hand
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4 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

Yeah, about that, I don't think a lot of you currently complaining about that were here on 9/11 and during the aftermath, up to and including the invasion Iraq. It was contentious as fuck and there were some particularly vicious arguments.

Yeah if we're gonna make that comparison I think it's also important to keep in mind that a lot of Americans were just as appalled and actively protested Dubya's actions at the time, including myself.  Just like a lot of Russians today.

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5 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I shared your sentiments exactly.

im glad they clarified their position to one I can empathize with.

Come on guys -- how many comments from MZ have you seen?  And yet you immediately accused her of xenophobia -- along with others who have indeed exhibited xenophobia (and anti-woman etc. as well) many, many times on this board, including even on the entertainment threads.  Come on.  I assumed from the context, and my knowledge of NYC and the context here, exactly why she did it.  You jumped but didn't stop to think about any of this -- even you all who live in the UK and suffer just like the US and NYC from Russian money etc. meddling in your government too.

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1 minute ago, DMC said:

Yeah if we're gonna make that comparison I think it's also important to keep in mind that a lot of Americans were just as appalled and actively protested Dubya's actions at the time, including myself.  Just like a lot of Russians today.

I wasn't here then, but you betcha we were appalled and actively protested.  Just like a lot of Russians today.

 

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7 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Okay then, let's talk about Yemen. People - women, children, entire families - are dying there, today. The UN estimates up to a quarter of a million people have been murdered. With British and American weapons.

What we gonna do about it?

Continue to starve people and keep selling arms to the Saudis, from what I understand.  

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Just now, The Dragon Demands said:

Ukraine just formally submitted a European Union application: how quickly could they theoretically be granted membership? I mean best case scenario no opposition and if they rush it as fast as possible, how long is that?

What would be the practical consequences of this?  Would it further escalate things?  Mostly symbolic gesture?

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2 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

What would be the practical consequences of this?  Would it further escalate things?  Mostly symbolic gesture?

Practically and in short term, it would instantly turn Ukrainian refugees into EU citizens, presumably making their lives much easier. It would also help with any potential post-war reconstruction.

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25 minutes ago, briantw said:

 

 

It did cross my mind that, if you’re going to invade Ukraine and you’re trying to consider the ramifications of that, you want ‘predictable’. Trump was far from that. Possibly that factored in to the timing, but I’m sure plenty of other things did.

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Just now, DaveSumm said:

It did cross my mind that, if you’re going to invade Ukraine and you’re trying to consider the ramifications of that, you want ‘predictable’. Trump was far from that. Possibly that factored in to the timing, but I’m sure plenty of other things did.

Considering that Putin almost certainly has dirt on Trump, I don’t think the timing mattered at all.  Russia was doing everything in their power to interfere in our elections to get a second Trump term for a reason, and that’s because Putin knew that Trump wouldn’t move against him in the way a competent, less corrupt president would. 

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24 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

And China is doing a genocide.

Would you say someone not wanting to do business with a Chinese person for being Chinese is reasonable then?

I would say having a Chinese National running your law school fund raiser, unless that person is a known supporter of human rights, would be unthinkable.

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11 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

It did cross my mind that, if you’re going to invade Ukraine and you’re trying to consider the ramifications of that, you want ‘predictable’. Trump was far from that. Possibly that factored in to the timing, but I’m sure plenty of other things did.

Trump said many times he wanted to pull out of NATO in his second term. Seems like Putin would've wanted to wait for that to happen before launching any invasions.

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10 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

It did cross my mind that, if you’re going to invade Ukraine and you’re trying to consider the ramifications of that, you want ‘predictable’. Trump was far from that. Possibly that factored in to the timing, but I’m sure plenty of other things did.

Yeah the only time it benefits to have an unpredictable/'madman' leader - and it's arguable it's ever a good idea - is if that leader is balanced out by a "straight man."  Nixon famously tried this tack with Russia, China and North Vietnam, but he had Kissinger to play good cop.  The only "good cops" Trump ever had he fired if they ever tried to indicate to the world they were good cops.

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2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I would say having a Chinese National running your law school fund raiser, unless that person is a known supporter of human rights, would be unthinkable.

What, the default is just that someone born in China doesn't support human rights?  By that token may as well assume the same of any US national.   

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4 minutes ago, Fez said:

Trump said many times he wanted to pull out of NATO in his second term. Seems like Putin would've wanted to wait for that to happen before launching any invasions.

And now he's taking credit for NATO's unity against Russia and their support for Ukraine because of course he would.

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5 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I would say having a Chinese National running your law school fund raiser, unless that person is a known supporter of human rights, would be unthinkable.

Give me a minute, just gonna go back through your post history for the context I need to confirm that this isn’t just flat out racist. 

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