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Ukraine: Holding


Ser Scot A Ellison
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By the by,

Tying things back to the air force discussion, maybe the Russian pilots are simply refusing to fly missions where there's almost any risk at all that they get shot down.

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16 minutes ago, Week said:

Shocking that @Mlle. Zabzie was thoughtful, justified, and clearly held no personal or xenophobic animus. Perhaps we could give each other some grace before assuming ill intent and riding the slippery slope to xenophobia and -- just wait two more posts -- genocide.

I mean, we had the information MZ chose to give. If I'm told "I don't like Russians", I'm going to draw different assumptions than if I'm told "I don't like Russians named Vladimir Putin". 

On the Russian air force situation, I was referencing this report from the UK's MoD:

If by "air superiority" we just mean vis-a-vis opposing aircraft, sure, they have that. If we mean "air superiority" as control of the airspace, though, it seems the Russians don't have it (despite their claims otherwise), at least not over the entirety of Ukraine.

Edited by Ran
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It would be an additional bucket of tears atop the clusterfuck sundae that is this world to see people discriminate against all Russians due to the actions of their leaders. Really, we don't need any further hatred in this world than we already have. We don't need the common man to hate the common man when the real focus of our anger should be at our global leaders, who are fucking us into oblivion. 

Edited by Relic
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Just now, Ran said:

I mean, we had the information MZ chose to give. If I'm told "I don't like Russians", I'm going to draw different assumptions than if I'm told "I don't like Russians named Vladimir Putin". 

 

That quote was never made.

That said, I'll leave it at that. 

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21 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

If worse came to worse (the takeover of Ukraine by Russia) I’d deport everyone with Russian citizenship  out of Canada unless they could prove they weren’t Putin supporters. I’d close down every trade office they have across the country right now and I’d tell the Russian embassy that they could only have a vastly reduced staff on hand and I’d restrict them to the capital city.

And how would they prove that exactly? Polygraph? Truth serum?

Russians who live in the West live there because they don't want to live in Russia. What you're proposing is the equivalent of deporting Syrians into Syria because the Assad regime is horrible.

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20 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Fuck it. Imma gonna say it.

Americans (and to a lesser extent, Brits) are the last people on Earth who should feel justified in clambering up onto their high horses to punish Russian nationals just for being Russian.

I mean, while what is happening in Ukraine is truly, truly fucking awful, it really pales into insignificance when compared to what the British and Americans have been up to for the past twenty years or so in terms of, ya know, war crimes and illegal wars, numbers of civilians killed horrifically, etc, etc, et fucking cetera.

Anyway, most of this crocodile outrage is for the birds. I don't see anyone calling for the ostracising of anyone, at all, over what has been happening in Yemen, for years. I don't see anyone calling for Saudi Arabia to be sanctioned. I don't see anyone protesting British and American weapons being used to annihilate entire communities of brown people in Yemen. Oh no. Nobody is giving the chairmen of BAE or Lockheed Martin the cold cock. The hypocrisy makes me sick.

 

 

Thank you for this, it's like we are living in different worlds. The hypocresy is horrible and so strange, like how do you even do that?

I really wonder what this board would be saying if the same reaction and sanctions that have been  applied to russia where applied to the  usa for the iraq invasion.

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At this point Russia is just doing Ukraine's propaganda job for them:

Babyn Yar is a holocaust memorial and mass grave for over 30,000 Jews and somewhere up to 100,000 other Nazi victims. Some real "de-Nazification" the Russians got going on here.

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secondary boycott of athletics organizations, law school reunions, and other civil society institutions for their failure to 86 the russian empire seems plausible.

russian citizens will have worse from the economic sanctions regime, in comparison to symbolic actions that almost always only gratify the interest of boycotters to avoid personal contamination.

 

Edited by sologdin
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42 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Her clients include all of the big Russian state actors and oligarchs.  She is representing the University in fundraising.  

Same here as in London, for a single instance.  Oligarchs are part and parcel of NYC trumpland. In case people have forgotten: part of the entire international Putin apparatus that installed him here, and did more than meddle in our elections, attempt to destroy democratic governments and replace them with authoritarians, oligarchs and keptocrats everywhere -- and still are.  Plus don't forget their financial and other assistance to trump in fucking over Ukraine in the last few years.  

Mille. Zabzie did the right thing, fer petes sake -- unless you think Russia should still be playing in the FIFA events etc. -- well then.

Edited by Zorral
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33 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

It doesn't matter. They are humans. Do not forget that.

 

Yeah and some humans are bad.

 

Theres never been a society or a point in history where generally this premise was controversial to most people. Nor will there be.

The controversy comes with how you’re discerning whose bad and for what reason.

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21 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:

Thank you for this, it's like we are living in different worlds. The hypocresy is horrible and so strange, like how do you even do that?

I really wonder what this board would be saying if the same reaction and sanctions that have been  applied to russia where applied to the  usa for the iraq invasion.

Yeah, about that, I don't think a lot of you currently complaining about that were here on 9/11 and during the aftermath, up to and including the invasion of Iraq. It was contentious as fuck and there were some particularly vicious arguments.

These kinds of judgments are easy to make now, but time is like that.  

Edited by JEORDHl
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3 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

These kinds of judgments are easy to make now, but time is like that.  

Okay then, let's talk about Yemen. People - women, children, entire families - are dying there, today. The UN estimates up to a quarter of a million people have been murdered. With British and American weapons.

What we gonna do about it?

Edited by Spockydog
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47 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

You’re offended because someone doesn’t want a Russian to run her law school’s fund-raiser? Are you people nuts?

And China is doing a genocide.

Would you say someone not wanting to do business with a Chinese person for being Chinese is reasonable then?

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