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Revenge is not a good reason for war!


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https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/160093-what-should-become-of-the-dreadfort-and-the-bolton-lands-after-their-defeat/

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/160303-house-freys-downfall/

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/160376-hope-for-the-frey-family/

Many of the members of this forum would like severe punishment for the Freys and the Boltons.  They may want to think about punishment for the Starks and the Lannisters too.  These families brought a lot of casualties and suffering to Westeros. Kindly remember that it was Jaime and Cat who started the War Of the Five Kings.  It was Robb Stark who chose to march with an army to answer the royal summon.  Jon Snow betrayed the Night Watch and started a war with Ramsay. 

Walder, Roose, and Ramsay are not going to submit themselves for punishment.  They will have to be taken by force. Is it worth the cost of many lives to bring them to the Starks'  justice?  It is not.  Stark justice is a depraved version of true justice. 

Those who start war or about to start one in the name of revenge are punished.  Cat, Khal Drogo, Robb, and Jon Snow were all punished because they lost their way.  They were putting family before their duty to the kingdom and the small folk.  I am waiting for Jaime to get punished. 

There are justifiable reasons to go to war.  Our author is right when he said he would have fought against the Nazi.  But revenge is not a good enough reason.  There is a time for justice but also for mercy.  Another war to extract Lord Roose from his castle will get a lot of people killed.  I am not so sure if it's worth the death toll.  Lord Walder was severely wronged by Robb Stark.  He is not leaving his castle to present himself for judgment.  The blood toll to bring him to justice is not justified. 

What is justice in this case and who decides what is a just response to the red wedding?  I don't think Daenerys will execute Lord Walder if the matter came down to a trial.  She may execute Lord Roose.  It depends on how he presents his defense.  Roose killed his lord.  Walder killed an ally who betrayed him.  There is a clear distinction. 

Justice will be mocked if the Starks are in charge.  The trial, if there is even one, will be a farce.  Arya will make Ramsay look compassionate by what she will choose to do to Walder and Roose.  Jon will be just as merciless.  Jon was willing to go to war for Arya.  He cannot and should not be trusted with justice.  I am sure Jon will pay whatever the toll in death to get his revenge on the Boltons and the Freys. 

Edited by Aline de Gavrillac
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Sure Arya is comparable to someone who savagely, murders, flay and torture just for the fun of it and did what he did to Jeyne Pool, sure Walder is a saint and poor victim of Robb who far less honorable and nice than him, sure Daenerys would feel sympathy for someone who betrayed and murdered the king he gave his alliegiance to twice and switched sides multiple times and broke the sacred laws of men and gods. 

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Revenge is not a justified reason but this is just fiction for the sake of entertainment.  George R. R. Martin will deliver emotional moments.  Many of the Freys will get killed by the Starks but the Freys will get to kill a Stark or two.  The Boltons have no chance of surviving because of their location.  The Freys have better chances because of distance, numbers, and family wealth.  They have the means to scatter and run from the Starks and the White Walkers.  

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Revenge may not be a justified reason for war, but the Boltons and the Freys needed to be wiped out for reasons beyond revenge.

The Boltons are quite simply murderous tyrants. Both living members (Roose and Ramsey) have a long history of brutally oppressing and tormenting the people they rule over. Roose has been raping women on his lands for years, and flays anyone that so much as looks at him wrong. Ramsey is even worse, since he commits the same crimes as Roose but blatantly out in the open for everyone to witness. And these men are not the only men that do this. House Bolton's reputation has from the very beginning been built on a continuing chain of atrocities. They are evil men who will go on to raise up more evil men.

At this point, there is no price too high to pay for the Bolton extinction because if you don't, the amount of victims of their continued existence will eventually outweigh those people who would have to perish to get rid of them.

The Freys are a more complicated case, because while treacherous and greedy they're not complete irrational monsters like the Boltons are. In the case of the Freys, they need to be removed because of the cultural considerations that surround their recent actions.

If we look back to House Teague for example, we have Kings of the Riverlands who basically existed as a dynasty in a state of perpetual warfare. People were dying all over the place all the time because the Teagues were viewed as illegitimate foreigners by all the lords of the realm and the smallfolk as well.

The Freys, who are famous across the entire continent as breaking the guest rights, can never hold the Riverlands because they are "cursed by the gods". Riverland lords will resist them for the sake of blood feuds yes, but even the smallfolk will resist them because they are Hostis humani generis. At this point, it's best just to wipe them all out and start fresh because if you don't, the Riverlands will become a failed state.

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Hold on because I didn’t actually read anything that op wrote because its an obvious attempt at trolling and character bashing.

But I just wanna put my opinion here (even tho op wont care).

You say revenge isnt a good reason for war? Ok fair enough. But lets say the heads of the french government went to Rome for a dinner amongst friends, and the Italians proceed to execute them in the midst of that dinner. Would you say that this is a good reason for France to go to war? Or should they just shrug it off and say “bad luck”.

Like I guarantee you that 2 thirds of the French population will support a war, and probably the rest of the western population too.

I know op won’t bother to read this, but I just wanna put in my opinion anyways.

And btw if someone murders my family the same way as the red wedding Im 100% going John wick mode, fuck the consequences. Because revenge is sweet, despite what people out there tell you.

Edited by The Young Maester
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I think there actually is some truth in what you're saying, in that there's a running theme throughout ASOIF of people trying to seek revenge and their desire for revenge just perpetuating an endless cycle of violence.

Classic example being Robb Stark's desire to avenge his father. Catelyn begs him to make peace with the Lannisters at one point, but he refuses and it ultimately leads to his downfall and the near-extinction of the Starks.

I think Lady Stoneheart will be the instrument of revenge on the Freys, but her actions will in turn cause more suffering and violence. It carries on until someone decides to break the cycle of violence.

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The red wedding is not enough justification for further conflict.  It's just the Starks and their vassals who got killed.  But conflict there will be because of the entertainment value. 

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