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Ukraine Part 5: war...it never changes


Kalbear

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Marina Stepanska, fairly known Ukrainian screenwriter, currently in Kiev, wrote an emotional letter to her "former Russian friends" on FB (found the translation somewhere, copied it and now of course I can't find the source, but I hope it's accurate):

My dear former Russian friends, I told you to go fuck yourselves prematurely, as we need to talk.

On the sixth day of war, there is finally time to respond to your touching texts: "how are you holding up?" "take care".

First, I'm pissed off, second - I don't need to be holding up. See, I'm full of love, admiration, gratefulness and respect for my people, all Ukrainians and especially our armed forces and our president. It's a great fucking state, you should try it.

First you must start with horror of course, like we all did at 5 AM, when we woke up to the sound of blasts. Everybody started calling. Those they loved. We mostly said "fuck, they attacked after all". Those "they" is not Putin, it's you. Every single one of you, who didn't come out to fight the mold, that ate brains of most of your compatriots and probably yours too.

Then we went to buy water, medicine, took a shower and came down to prepare the basements of our houses. My basement we prepared in five hours to the state where we could open a hotel in it. There was no time for fear, just anger at fucking Russians and concentration.

First siren. Me and my friends decided, that whatever happens, we have to take kids to the safe place. In the first three days of war I learned I can spend 20 hours, day and night, behind a wheel, while simultaniously entertaining the kids, because we have a purpose. I can easily live with just one backpack with an underwear, make up set, set of lenses and a t-shirt, because I have friends everywhere and a purpose. I can sleep on the floor and sleep well, because there are people next to me who didn't go the fuck out, they're working on all fronts - because we have purpose.

I realised I can now cry only in one circumstance - reading that my military sends you - our occupiers - to go fuck yourselves just before they die and they don't give up, because this is a top of evolution - human with dignity. First critics of Darwin's theory of evolution claimed you can't axtrapolate it on humanity, because it is not clear why during alleged biological evolution humans were left such unnecessary trait for survival as altruism. War of Ukraine againts Russian occupiers made me realise that altruism is a trait necessary for survival of a human kind called "human with dignity". And it will exist in the future. In the better future.

Please understand this, my dear, former, Russian friends, even if I die tomorrow, which is not so unlikely under the circumstances, it will be ok. Because I know, that MY people will survive and rebuild everything you are fucking up. We are already doing this, because there is no fear, there is respect - because our name is - whole Ukraine.

Respect for your own people and awerness that they will be protecting you is such a great fucking state, you should try it.

I say "WE" for one simple reason. Everything i said above, is the experience of everyone I know, not to mention those who enrolled to the military after the first rockets fell and line up to Heaven. Draft boards make jokes, that "if you are about to serve, everybody is sick, but if you're about to fight Russians, everybody is well all of a sudden". You see how much we despise you?

It's not very likely our approach to you will change, but you can still do something for yourselves:

Find your own dignity and start a revolution. There are fucking lots of you. And you haven't accomplished anything so far, because today's Russia is a fucking lots of slaves. But if there is fucking lots of people - you will make it. 

I try to believe it.

And for now, you can send money for Ukrainian army, instead of texts.

Praise Ukraine!

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I call bullshit on this "all you Russians are to blame". This "fairly known Ukrainian screenwriter" needs to grow up and understand that actions of governments are quite often not representative of wishes of the people. Thousands of Russians protested this war, fully aware that incarceration and prosecution are in store for them for doing so.

If I considered this person my friend, I wouldn't any more after this.

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One of my friends is part of a DJ/producer duo. He lives in the UK while his musical partner lives in Russia. They can't release a statement condemning the invasion because people are being arrested and slapped with 5 year prison sentences for SOCIAL MEDIA posts which don't back Putin. He's been telling me that all the Russian artists he knows are against what is happening but that most people there are avoiding discussing the situation. So fucked. 

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2 minutes ago, baxus said:

I call bullshit on this "all you Russians are to blame". This "fairly known Ukrainian screenwriter" needs to grow up and understand that actions of governments are quite often not representative of wishes of the people. Thousands of Russians protested this war, fully aware that incarceration and prosecution are in store for them for doing so.

If I considered this person my friend, I wouldn't any more after this.

That's why she called them former friends in the letter. 

Also it *is* possible to overthrow a government when you, as a people, start to be complacent and stand up to the oppressors. It is not easy and you have to be brave. It has been done before, even by members of this board. 

I'm not sure how I would react to a "take care" message.

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15 minutes ago, kiko said:

Also it *is* possible to overthrow a government when you, as a people, start to be complacent and stand up to the oppressors. It is not easy and you have to be brave. It has been done before, even by members of this board. 

Did you even read what people stated above? Relic speaks of prison sentences for anyone publicly opposing current regime in social media, and we have all heard of people being arrested and facing prison sentences for attending anti-war protests? Have you any idea how difficult it would be to organise some meaningful means of resistance in those circumstances? Are you aware that in order for a messaging app to not be banned in Russia app publishers need to provide Russian authorities with encryption keys? That means that any and all communication you have with your family, friends, co-conspirators is basically open for the regime to read. How naive are you to think that "just say `no!`" attitude would work?

What do you think happens if people in those protests start resisting police? Police backs down and says: "Oh, if you don't want to come with us, that's ok too?" Or do you think it's more likely they come back, better equipped, with riot police, mounted police, tear gas, water cannons etc., beat the shit out of whoever they can and just add more criminal charges on top?

Also, please elaborate which government of a major power has been overthrown this way? Do you think there is the slightest chance that US government would be overthrown like that? Or China? What makes you think it would be possible in Russia?

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44 minutes ago, baxus said:

Thousands of Russians protested this war, fully aware that incarceration and prosecution are in store for them for doing so.

I Personally met a Russian guy yesterday who was sending resources over to Ukraine. It’d been evil for me to sneer at him whilst he tried to do good.

Or just living his life.

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1 hour ago, baxus said:
  1. When exactly was Russia a defender of Serbia and its interest? For well over two centuries, Russia has been using us as a bargaining chip and didn't hesitate to fuck us over whenever it would serve their purpose. Even now, Russia has stated an example of Kosovo as precedent for what they're doing in Ukraine.
  2. This I agree with
  3. No one has recognised independence of Crimea, since Crimea hasn't even gone for independence. It was taken over by Russia and is now practically a part of Russia (not getting into whether that's right or wrong debate)
  4. Serbia has tried to sit in two seats for decades now. We want to consider Kosovo as part of Serbia AND we want to join EU where majority of members recognise Kosovo as an independent country. We want to join EU but we don't want to do things the way EU mandates. We are not in position of Switzerland, we can't afford neutrality and we don't seem to want to come terms with that. We are not "friends with everyone", we are dependant on everyone and we need to placate everyone all the time.
  5. Serbia doesn't have to introduce sanctions to Russia, but it's a reasonable question whether EU would reconsider Serbia's status as a candidate for membership. Once again, we need to determine our priorities and interests and move in that direction.
  6. That fans choreography clearly had elements you are denying here. Whether it was intentional or not is another question but considering that Crvena Zvezda's main sponsor is Gazprom, that their ultras are nationalist, that Russians are seen as "Orthodox brothers" and all that mythology, it's easy to assume it was. Let's call it like it is, moon could've easily been white (you know, as moon actually is) and the night sky could've been some shade of grey.

Hypocrisy of whole "western world" ganging up to bomb Yugoslavia and forcibly remove part of its territory and the same people crying over Russia doing pretty much the same to Ukraine is not lost on anyone who cares to think for themselves. Still, I'd like to think that most people would consider NATO actions in '99 to have been bad rather than thinking Russia's actions today are good.

1. Of course they have been using us as a bargaining chip. I am not idolizing Russia or their actions. I am just stating the fact - Russian veto meant a lot with regard to Serbian territorial integrity.

4. I don't deny that. Serbia has tried and we would all agree failed in its quest of neutrality. Remember the good old days of "four pillars diplomacy" :D Simply, due to complex internal issues, we have tried to be "friends with everyone" and the world is not working that way these days.

6. We both know what that choreography meant so we are not going to pretend like it was someone aiming at Ukraine. That said, I wouldn't have been surprised and I would have been the first to condemn them if it was about Ukraine. I know their nationalistic views which is why I haven't set a foot on Serbian stadiums in more than a decade. But, let's not pretend that there were those who really jumped the gun with this one, especially having in mind that they have cut the picture in the right place to omit the said reference. As I said, I wouldn't be surprised if they have done it, but I don't see it as intentional. Maybe I am a bit naive to think so, but my first association was not Ukraine when I have seen it. It was only when I went on Twitter that I had to check and recheck what I have seen/heard.

Of course, hypocrisy of all parties have not been lost on anyone. I'd like to think that too, but honestly we both know that some people will find excuses for Russia no matter what. That said, what Putin is doing is wrong and deserves condemnation. Regardless of whether I think that some of his former/current Western colleagues deserve the same. 

 

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1 minute ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I Personally met a Russian guy yesterday who was sending resources over to Ukraine. It’d been evil for me to sneer at him whilst he tried to do good.

What all of us (that "fairly known Ukrainian screenplay writer" in particular) need to keep in mind is that "noble Elves vs foul Orcs" works in Tolkien novels only, and should be kept there.

There are what, 170-180 million people living in Russia? Who in their right mind would ever consider them all a monolithic block of people?

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37 minutes ago, baxus said:

Also, please elaborate which government of a major power has been overthrown this way? 

Um, Ukrainian one, for starters? Plus pretty much all Eastern European countries in 1989?

Should we blame all Russians for what is happening? Of course not, this would be foolish and wrong.

Can Ukrainians blame Russians? They still shouldn't, but I wouldn't be in such a hurry to blame them for it.

Could (and should) Russians do more to try and stop Putain in the first place? That's debatable. But as someone whose father (ironically professor of Russian literature) was detained and spent few months in prison in the early eighties for protests, I daresay they could.

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I wish there were a way to oppose the Russian Government and Russian Military invasion of Ukraine that didn’t impact the Russian people.  I wish there were a simple way to make all Russian people aware of what the Russian Government and Russian military are doing to Ukraine.

:(

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2 minutes ago, baxus said:

There are what, 170-180 million people living in Russia? Who in their right mind would ever consider them all a monolithic block of people?

This... We have no problem differentiating the terms nazi and German. I mean, if we start blaming the entire nation... Which, as I hear is being done - from Dostoyevsky being removed from syllabus to Tchaikovsky being removed from the concert program...

We are on a dangerous slope here. I wasn't going to read "Anna Karenina" any time soon, but the mere idea how it may be interpreted is sickening.

2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I wish there were a way to oppose the Russian Government and Russian Military invasion of Ukraine that didn’t impact the Russian people.  I wish there were a simple way to make all Russian people aware of what the Russian Government and Russian military are doing to Ukraine.

:(

I think the problem is that most Westerners don't actually understand how these things work in Russia, or Serbia or any country where people are blatantly unaware of some things. That said, US has been bombing countries and yet Americans were clueless. I will never forget James Spader's line in "Boston Legal": "Two thousand American soldiers have fallen and all American public wants to concern itself with is whether Brad and Angelina really are a couple". Communism in many of these countries evolved into modernized version of dictatorship. These leaders are great in creating foreign threats, enemies and people buy that stuff. Especially those that have limited access to information via TV, newspapers, Internet. 

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9 minutes ago, Mladen said:

6. We both know what that choreography meant so we are not going to pretend like it was someone aiming at Ukraine. That said, I wouldn't have been surprised and I would have been the first to condemn them if it was about Ukraine. I know their nationalistic views which is why I haven't set a foot on Serbian stadiums in more than a decade. But, let's not pretend that there were those who really jumped the gun with this one, especially having in mind that they have cut the picture in the right place to omit the said reference. As I said, I wouldn't be surprised if they have done it, but I don't see it as intentional. Maybe I am a bit naive to think so, but my first association was not Ukraine when I have seen it. It was only when I went on Twitter that I had to check and recheck what I have seen/heard.

My first reaction wasn't to connect it with Ukraine, but I'm proud to say that my mind doesn't work like average football ultra's mind works. It was, at best, very poorly timed and shouldn't have been done that way. As I said, white moon would've changed everything in regards to the "message" choreography was supposedly meant to send.

5 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

Um, Ukrainian one, for starters? Plus all Eastern European countries in 1989?

First of all, I said "major power" and no Eastern European country (except Russia, obviously) is a major power today, much less so in 1989. In Serbia (Yugoslavia at the time) we've overthrown a dictator back in 2000, and I still wouldn't count that as a relevant example since it was done after series (10 years worth) of disastrous moves from our government and major international support for political alternatives. I'd love to see someone try to make that happen in Russia today.

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12 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I wish there were a way to oppose the Russian Government and Russian Military invasion of Ukraine that didn’t impact the Russian people.  I wish there were a simple way to make all Russian people aware of what the Russian Government and Russian military are doing to Ukraine.

:(

I’m not sure how prevalent it is, but I saw on FB someone suggesting they copy a block of text from a Ukrainian explaining what is happening in Ukraine, and paste it as a review on a completely random Russian business on Google Maps. Not sure how effective that would be, but interesting.

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Unfortunately I suspect the power to overthrow Putin is not in the hands of ordinary people. It's not like going to and complaining to your MP on an issue. The whole point of sanctions is to hit the people who could potentially make a change, the Oligarchs and insiders. If they felt they needed to make the change then it could happen. 

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I know we talked about casualties, but regarding other forms of depletion saw this yesterday:

Quote

Russia has lost roughly 3% to 5% of its tanks, aircraft, artillery and other military assets inside Ukraine — compared to Ukrainian losses of roughly 10% of its capabilities, according to two US officials familiar with the latest intelligence. 

US and western officials caution that those ratios are difficult to calculate and likely to change — not only because both sides continue to incur losses as the week-old war grinds on, but also because both Russian and Ukrainian forces are being resupplied. 

But the stark imbalance underscores grim assessments from US and western officials that despite a stiffer-than-expected resistance by Ukraine that has kept major cities out of Russian hands, it is still likely to be overwhelmed as Russia launches an intensified and less discriminate phase of its assault. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Mladen said:

I think the problem is that most Westerners don't actually understand how these things work in Russia, or Serbia or any country where people are blatantly unaware of some things. That said, US has been bombing countries and yet Americans were clueless. I will never forget James Spader's line in "Boston Legal": "Two thousand American soldiers have fallen and all American public wants to concern itself with is whether Brad and Angelina really are a couple". Communism in many of these countries evolved into modernized version of dictatorship. These leaders are great in creating foreign threats, enemies and people buy that stuff. Especially those that have limited access to information via TV, newspapers, Internet. 

Fun fact - dictatorship that's going on in Serbia at the moment has full support of EU. Sure, there's an occasional slap on the wrist for our politicians when they step out of line, but overall message coming from EU is that everything is fine, election process is just fine and dandy, the degree of media control from the ruling party is not a cause for concern etc.

Sorry for this minor derail.

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19 minutes ago, baxus said:

There are what, 170-180 million people living in Russia? Who in their right mind would ever consider them all a monolithic block of people?

We literally do this to damn near every country. For my entire adult life I've heard the majority of people outside of the U.S. shit on all of us because of actions I've strongly opposed. It is what it is.

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15 minutes ago, baxus said:

First of all, I said "major power" and no Eastern European country (except Russia, obviously) is a major power today, much less so in 1989. 

I know, I'm just not sure why "major power" is different from any other country in this regard. They won't start to nuke their own citizens, will they? I do believe every dictator can be thrown out of power if the critical mass of protests is huge enough. They won't arrest majority of the population after all.

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10 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

We literally do this to damn near every country. For my entire adult life I've heard the majority of people outside of the U.S. shit on all of us because of actions I've strongly opposed. It is what it is.

I am somewhat sympathetic to this (bc, it me), but truly we are more culpable if we're being honest. Especially white folks in the US (pointing the finger at myself) where our freedom of speech, movement, and association - virtually anywhere in the world - has never been threatened or curtailed even really.

We've lacked the backbone to collectively work to stop a lot of evil shit within and outside of our country. 

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