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Ukraine Part 5: war...it never changes


Kalnestk Oblast
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5 minutes ago, DMC said:

I was born in 1985.  What are you trying to say, that it was a really, really long time ago?  Huh?

 

No lol

I think I was more laughing at myself. I'm probably one of these half baked intellectuals he's referencing, because I had no inkling psyops retracted back that far. I mean, development of the science [so to speak] would be what then, the 50s probably?   

Edited by JEORDHl
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1 minute ago, Corvinus85 said:

Yes we're old. Kids these days now refer to people born in nineteen hundreds instead of 80s/90s. 

Yeah it was really depressing a couple years ago when most of my class of undergrads said they weren't even born on 9/11. 

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Just wow. I don't know if this was already posted. If he's even only half sincere about what he's saying here, this is a totally different man. Prime example of absolute power corrupting absolutely.

 

Edited by Corvinus85
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38 minutes ago, Zorral said:

From the beginning Zelensky has said this isn't a war about Ukraine, it's about a war for Europe.  Unconfirmed tweets have Zelensky saying Putin says he won't stop until he gets to Berlin.

Something major has caused EU (especially Germany) to do a 180-turn from their initial lukewarm reaction. I'm guessing that the US shared some scary intelligence reports with them during the first days of war.

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1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

India was never truly aligned, at least not from their perspective. Actually they headed the non-aligned faction. From the US perspective this was as bad as being aligned with the USSR.  

Same is happening here and I don't think that threatening India would do anything good to the US position. Probably the opposite.

Yes, I know. I grew up in India during the height of the Cold War (for those talking about the slavic connections of Serbia to Russia, Tito was also one of the big three championing the NAM). A bit hard to maintain the fiction of non-alignment with the rupee-rouble exchange rate being so favorable and cheap Mir books/textbooks flooding the market (some of them were really good science wise). Anyway, yes, sanctions are not the way.

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3 minutes ago, Gorn said:

Something major has caused EU (especially Germany) to do a 180-turn from their initial lukewarm reaction. I'm guessing that the US shared some scary intelligence reports with them during the first days of war.

And Biden keeps repeating that attacking a NATO nation means it on.  

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2 minutes ago, Gorn said:

Something major has caused EU (especially Germany) to do a 180-turn from their initial lukewarm reaction. I'm guessing that the US shared some scary intelligence reports with them during the first days of war.

 

 

In his long rambling speech before declaring war, Putin said that the reunification of Germany was contingent on NATO never expanding Eastwards. He didn't say the next part out loud, but the consequence of that must be that he does not, in fact, consider the reunification legitimate. It might be a remote possibility but Germany has got to act as if he might do something about that one day, or an even more insane successor swayed by his words. 

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40 minutes ago, DMC said:

I was born in 1985.  What are you trying to say, that it was a really, really long time ago?  Huh?

Hang on, a KGB defector talked about disinformation campaings in 1985, the year you were born. You are our reference for American politics.

My tin foil hat suggests I am on to something here, I just can't put my finger on it, yet...

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Well, this would be a bit of good news if it actually occurs

Supposedly everything else about the negotiations today did not go well though.

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2 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Hang on, a KGB defector talked about disinformation campaings in 1985, the year you were born. You are our reference for American politics.

My tin foil hat suggests I am on to something here, I just can't put my finger on it, yet...

Clearly, Yuri Bezmenov is my father.

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21 minutes ago, Gorn said:

Something major has caused EU (especially Germany) to do a 180-turn from their initial lukewarm reaction. I'm guessing that the US shared some scary intelligence reports with them during the first days of war.

Not really, the fully fledged invasion of Ukraine was enough to shake up the political establishment. Up to that point, it was assumed, you can reason with Putin, and diplomacy (soft power) will always prevail, and there was no need to back it up with military force, and push came to shove there'd still be the US. 

The notion of relying on the US, well, that disappeared for some reason sometime between 2016 and 2020. I have no idea why... So there already was an acknowledgement, that the EU (and Germany in particular) would need to bulk its military defense. Putin has just accelerated the process by quite a bit.

Edited by A Horse Named Stranger
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2 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Not really, the fully fledged invastion of Ukraine was enough to shake up the political establishment. Up to that point, it was assumed, you can reason with Putin, and diplomacy (soft power) will always prevail, and there was no need to back it up with military force, and push came to shove there'd still be the US. 

The notion of relying on the US, well, that disappeared for some reason sometime between 2016 and 2020. I have no idea why... So there already was an acknowledgement, that the EU (and Germany in particular) would need to bulk its military defense. Putin has just accelerated the process by quite a bit.

Any speculation as to how long it will take the Germans to get up to speed? The chip shortage will not help.

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31 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Just wow. I don't know if this was already posted. If he's even only half sincere about what he's saying here, this is a totally different man. Prime example of absolute power corrupting absolutely.

I think the guy's fallen into that classic trap of equating himself with his country. Putin is Russia, and Russia is Putin. Might have been slowly creeping, the longer he ruled and didn't see any worthy successor, the more he became convinced he had no choice, if Russia were to prosper ever again. No idea if there ever was a tipping point. I wouldn't rule out that he came to that conclusion after Medvedev's term - he assumed he'd do a better job and considering the ever more powerful West/NATO, he'd better take back control of Russia, otherwise the country would eventually become a weakling.

Or he's been unhinged from the beginning. But I tend to take him seriously most of the time - unless clear complete nonsense like when he's blablering about a country full of drug-addict Nazis.

2 minutes ago, Fez said:

Well, this would be a bit of good news if it actually occurs

Supposedly everything else about the negotiations today did not go well though.

Good. Russia said they already had a few - except Mariupol obviously -, but there's always reasonable doubt about how they'd really respect their own promises. I don't think the average Ukrainian would trust them that much. If it's actually backed by some Ukrainian check and confirmation, then people might actually get out before real shit happens.

As for the rest, then it really looks like Putin thinks he still has momentum and the upper hand and doesn't have to settle for a compromise. I also wouldn't be surprised if Ukrainians become overconfident with all the help, including military, and sanctions, and don't want to give in much.

2 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

The notion of relying on the US, well, that disappeared for some reason sometime between 2016 and 2020. I have no idea why... So there already was an acknowledgement, that the EU (and Germany in particular) would need to bulk its military defense. Putin has just accelerated the process by quite a bit.

Ironically, in the long run, this bloody stupid shameless fucking war might actually push Europe to become more independent militarily as well, and in the long run (not in the next few years obviously, not even this decade) EU might actually stop being the sidekick of US foreign policy's ambitions. What Putin clearly would've hoped for - splitting Europe and USA -, but definitely not in the way he expected it to happen.

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No idea, but the German army is in no shape or form combat ready. 

Aged/failing equipment. A few years ago they had to rent choppers from the ADAC (German equivalent to the AAA), so that their pilots could get the neccessary flying hours to keep their licenses from expiring.

I can't stress clearly enough, how pathetic the state of the German army is.

Edit. just checked that bit of news hite the public in 2017, and they were still forced to do it last year.

Edited by A Horse Named Stranger
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