Brandon Sanderson's Towers of Cash

[Denvek]

6 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Okay... I'm intrigued now.  That is my favorite piece of Sanderson writing and the one thing I thought that genuinely stepped outside of his standard formula.

Mild spoiler for interaction between The Lost Metal and The Emperor's Soul

Spoiler

A major secondary character reveals herself to be a Forger

 

[Gaston de Foix]

1 hour ago, Denvek said:

It's pretty standard Sanderson, mainly, so if you like his other stuff (especially the previous Wax & Wayne books) you'll like this. It does get more into cosmere stuff but I don't think you'll lose anything if you haven't read any non-Mistborn novels. (The particular short stories/novellas/whatever relevant to The Lost Metal are Mistborn: Secret History and The Emperor's Soul).

I've read Arcanum Unbound (and enjoyed it), and I read the Secret History too.  

[DaveSumm]

Kinda skimming the thread cos I’ve only read the first era of Mistborn, and not sure how spoilery it is. But just wanted to say, I wasn’t super looking forward to reading Elantris cos everyone said ‘oh it’s his first book, the writing isn’t as good’. But I’m really impressed so far, I think it’s a fair way better than Mistborn. The world building feels smoother, the character interactions are more natural, it just generally feels a lot more polished. I could maybe see how someone wouldn’t find it as exciting, it doesn’t have cool metal magic. But honestly would never have guessed Elantris was written first of the two.

I’m working my way through this Cosmere reading order, a ways to go yet but I’m really hoping the other works feel as strong as Elantris.

[A True Kaniggit]

Someone bought me The Lost Metal for Christmas.

Wayne is a bad influence. In like three chapters he taught me two new sexist jokes. 

[Kyll.Ing.]

Just read the four published books of Stormlight Archive. They are interesting books presenting an interesting world with a cool magic system. I didn't get that much into the constant references to the rest of the 'verse of the author, but I didn't feel like I missed out on anything either. There were just some moments where you think "this might have been a big deal if any context was provided first".

One thing I noted, though, was that so much of the plot hinged on people not talking to each other at all. Shallan is one big bundle of worries over things other characters could easily help her with. Half of Kaladin's problems would vanish if he found himself a close friend. The second and third books would have been very short if anybody paid any attention to Renarin whatsoever. In that situation, wouldn't it be worth keeping a close eye on the guy with ominous visions of the future, especially after it is proven that his father experienced visions that were both factual and important? Renarin just seems way too important to ignore, yet all the characters constantly do. 

Another thing I noticed was how mild the swearing was in this universe. I guess it has something to do with the moral convictions of the author? In a world where storms are constantly blowing, I don't think "storms" would remain the sole swear word in common use. It's a very mild expression in that context, like "clouds" would be in our word. 

I'll be eagerly awaiting the next book in the series, however. The story is quite interesting, and it's difficult to tell whether the good guys or the bad guys have the upper hand as things currently stand, which leaves plenty of room for surprises. I hear the series is set to have a big time skip after the first five books, which means we're in for a series mini-finale in the next book. It sounds like it's still a couple of years away, however.

[Lord Patrek]

6 hours ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

Another thing I noticed was how mild the swearing was in this universe. I guess it has something to do with the moral convictions of the author? In a world where storms are constantly blowing, I don't think "storms" would remain the sole swear word in common use. It's a very mild expression in that context, like "clouds" would be in our word. 

Sanderson never uses profanities. He always comes up with weird, sometimes dumb alternatives. He's extremely PG in that regard. Which is odd considering the amount of blood and gore found in his books.

[Ninefingers]

1 hour ago, Lord Patrek said:

Sanderson never uses profanities. He always comes up with weird, sometimes dumb alternatives. 

To the point of annoyance, IMO. He's definitely found the formula that works for him, but it's become a bit 'paint by numbers'. One swear word per world, and everyone uses it. 

 

[Argonath Diver]

Naughty words and nipples can ruin a childhood according to many millions of households, but shocking violence is a-ok. Sanderson fits in that large subset of those of faith. Some of his action scenes are truly heckin' brutal, gosh gee dang! Beheadings, impalements, disembowelments are par for the course in his books, and he rarely addresses just how horrific those moments would be for his characters. That strange disconnect between gleeful representation of gore, and complete lack of sexuality among all his very-carefully-described-as-attractive characters is a big put-off for me.

I should look up an extended plot summary of the Stormlight novels. I did enjoy the over-the-top anime style action as characters discovered their powers, but it could not overcome the unbearable amount of bloat. I am going to re-read the very fun Wax and Wayne series now that a new one is out - I'll just imagine an Ian McShane type of character in the background, because the wild west pastiche is very well suited to loads o' swearin'.

[Lord Patrek]

Ah well, Mormons and sexuality. . .

[Rhom]

Finished The Last Metal finally.  Maybe I should have attempted to re-read the first three other than just a summary, but there was a lot of Cosmere stuff in this book.  Probably moreso than any others of his that I've read and it just felt disjointed in some ways.  The Elantris connection mentioned above did come with a couple of cool revelations.

In the end, the book provided some good action without a lot of meandering like you get in the Stormlight Archives.  It was enjoyable.  I gave it three stars on Goodreads and was a bit disappointed to see that the overall average is 4.52... far above the average rating for some of my favorite books out there.  Ah well.  The pleasures of the masses I suppose.

[mix_masta_micah]

On 1/4/2023 at 4:17 PM, Rhom said:

Finished The Last Metal finally.  Maybe I should have attempted to re-read the first three other than just a summary, but there was a lot of Cosmere stuff in this book.  Probably moreso than any others of his that I've read and it just felt disjointed in some ways.  The Elantris connection mentioned above did come with a couple of cool revelations.

In the end, the book provided some good action without a lot of meandering like you get in the Stormlight Archives.  It was enjoyable.  I gave it three stars on Goodreads and was a bit disappointed to see that the overall average is 4.52... far above the average rating for some of my favorite books out there.  Ah well.  The pleasures of the masses I suppose.

Well it is Sanderson and apparently he's review proof. I'm glad people like him, it's not my thing, but jeezus, the amount of pandering is unbelievably annoying to me. 

[SpaceChampion]

Sanderson did a live q&a with the Dusty Wheel youtube channel about the secret he's been keeping (that Matt from the Dusty Wheel knew about since beta-reading AMOL) since the end of WOT.

I don't know if this should be spoiler protected, but here goes:

Spoiler

In short, he approached making the arcs for everyone by asking what do each want, and for most it was obvious.  For Lanfear she knew she was screwed no matter who won.  She needs everyone to think she's dead, but the Light wins.  So she concocted a con.  That whole Lanfear plotine with Perrin in AMOL was Lanfear conning Perrin, because she needed someone like Perrin trustworthy enough that the side of Light would believe him when he said she died.  (Matt thought this was all too obvious, so needed to be rewritten but Sanderson didn't change it and no one apparently got it.  

On Perrin's side, he came to believe he could not be Compelled, since he mastered the World of Dreams.  So he thought he broke Lanfear's Compulsion, but that was the con.  She was just playing with him, faked her death, and helped Perrin for the side of Light.

So yes, Lanfear is still alive in the 4th age, and no other character knows it.  This was pitched to Team Jordan by Sanderson so he invented it for AMOL, but it is "canon".  Sanderson figures she's probably gone over to Seanchan to set herself up there, would eventually be discovered by Mat and Perrin.  Rand would have a cameo where Lanfear realizes he's better off without her, so she does show some growth.

 

The relevant discussion happens about 20 minutes into the video.

Edited January 7, 2023 by SpaceChampion

[Infidel]

https://www.wired.com/story/brandon-sanderson-is-your-god/

 

Apparently Sanderson fans are in high dudgeon. I chuckled a few times, but then I generally disdain his stuff.

 

Certainly is making boat-loads of cash.....err...towers?

Edited March 24, 2023 by Infidel

[Ran]

Interesting piece, even if I can see why it's upsetting for some. I feel like the problem with Sanderson for the interviewer is that he has been so very voluble that basically everything he says he's already said half a hundred times before, and it's not easy for anyone to find some unexplored territory to talk about with him. In that sense, that bit about building books the way God builds people seemed so fruitful -- it seems like something Sanderson hasn't really shared before.

I am awe-struck by their estimates as to attendance by Dragonsteel 2024. If they really hit 12,000 attendees, that would make Dragonsteel bigger than any Worldcon in current history (I suspect it's probable the Chengdu worldcon will have more attendance).

ETA: Sanderson has remarked very diplomatically about it, although I will say I feel like the piece doesn't have much negative to say about Sanderson's fans, friends, or family. He calls the fans sweet. Everyone's smiling and pleasant. Sanderson's wife is the #1 fan, and surely how is that insulting? Sure, he points out that Sanderson's turned it into a family business with siblings and in-laws having roles in his company, but ... well, it's true, isn't it? It's fine.

Also, here is the LDS Living article referenced in Wired. Naturally, fans like that one a lot more. I notice it literally covers some of the exact same ground, like his work schedule, which underscores the fact that Sanderson is such an open book that there's not a lot of rocks left to turn.

 

Speaking of Sanderson, does anyone know if he ever wrapped up his commentary on the WoT TV series? I vaguely recall he stopped short of the final couple of episodes.

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Ran

[Garlan the Gallant]

He literally calls his fans smelly man boys….

I wouldn’t call the piece interesting at all. There’s not even a point to the article other than to shit on the author. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think he’s the world’s best author but he’s just shit posting. He’s clearly biased…and the way he describes his interaction with fans and Sanderson alike is bizarre. He labels it as “cornering” as if he is Columbo. What do you expect to hear when asking Sanderson’s biggest fans at his convention if they think Sanderson is a crappy writer too.

Also, he’s just wrong. Sanderson has been written about in detail and even interviewed on TV a number of times. 
 

l think there is a lot of meat on the bone to talk about Sanderson but this is just a hack job.

[Ran]

3 hours ago, Garlan the Gallant said:

He literally calls his fans smelly man boys….

Convention spaces in too-tight places tend to smell a little, from my experience. This is not unique to fantasy fans. I was recently at Eurohorse, a multi-day equestrian exhibition where the attendance was like 70% female, and at peak traffic it was both quite warm due to all the people (despite being winter, and a huge convention space) and, yes, smelled a little from all the bodies packed in the same space.

Given that he tried to research Sanderson beforehand, going through his podcasts and Youtube and anything else he found, I think what he meant was more with critical assessments of Sanderson. For the "highest selling fantasy writer in the world", there is an amazing paucity of critical writing about him, as seen as Google Scholars (where most of the references to him are simply his own writing, because he's so prolific), and very little in the way of profiles of him in general in relation to his popularity.

As to references to nerds and nerdery, the writer is a nerd too, as they admit when they point out that they pretty much exclusively read SF/F themselves.

[Argonath Diver]

I have exceedingly little in common with Brandon Sanderson and share the Wired author's opinion on his books to some degree. 

I also am completely sure that I'd rather spend a week with a somewhat milquetoast but earnest Sanderson than ten minutes with the Wired guy. How incredibly odious to write a piece that boils down to "I spent days as a guest with this really nice guy and all his nice friends, and FUCK THEM, RIGHT READERS!?"

We as forum readers all judge people through their text - myself deservingly included - but it's been awhile since I read any published content and so immediately recognized the author as a colossal prick.

[ljkeane]

Yeah, I’m not a particularly big fan of Sanderson’s books but that’s a pretty harsh article. I actually think something along the lines of ‘Sanderson’s widely accepted to not be a great writer but is very successful, why?’ would be quite interesting but the personal stuff just feels a bit mean.

[Werthead]

The article writer has form for sensationalism. He did a piece on Susanna Clarke, of whom he is a much more enthusiastic fan, and somehow still managed to conflate her actual medical issue which dramatically slowed her work output with mental health issues.

I did chuckle at the claim that Sanderson is the biggest-selling epic fantasy author in the world. He is not. Plenty of authors have outsold him, Rothfuss has comparable sales to him with 2 novels and a novella versus ~30 novels, novellas, graphic novels and short story collections. Martin has at least 4 and probably closer to 5 times his sales. Brooks, Salvatore and the Weis/Hickman team have both outsold him (as you'd hope, with a 20-year head start), and are all still producing new material.

[Ran]

Yeah, the sales claim seemed a bit dubious to me. I assume the $55 million is being taken as "for four books" when in fact it pays for ... well, the books, the pins, the figures, the audio books, the e-books, the staff, the warehouse, the shipping,  the taxes, etc., etc. I think actual profit for Sanderson is more like a quarter of that final sum, which is great of course, but it's a lot less impressive-seeming.

I recall the Clarke piece, didn't know he was the writer.