Tyrion's Interactions with Tywin Frustrate Me to No End

[FourRavensBlackOnWhite]

Let me start by saying, yes, Tywin emotionally abused and manipulated Tyrion from the time he was a child so i can understand Tyrion's reservations when speaking to his father. However, the consistent lack of truth and seriousness with which Tyrion speaks to Tywin always makes me grind my teeth in frustration.

 

Every interaction is as if Tyrion tries his hardest to be witty, when these are some of the few times his more serious side would command more respect. They don't have too many direct interactions, and only a couple 1 on 1, but this holds particularly true after Tyrion's injury on the blackwater.

1. He goes to see his father in the tower of the hand while injured (this is good and shows strength!)

2. Every single sentence out of his mouth is a joke. Does anyone have any psychological explanation for this? Is it a defense mechanism? Trying to hard to appear "strong" in the one area he is strongest in? (in any case, I call it extreme folly)

3. Tywin comments on the stupidity of his sortie to defend the King's Gate, and instead of indicating the importance of stopping the battering ram, he mentions it in passing and makes a joke, which then eclipses the whole event in his father's eyes

4.Tywin compliments Littlefinger's success in facilitating the Lannister-Tyrell Alliance, and Tyrion thinks to himself how it was his idea, and says nothing.

5. Tyrion then gets (justifiably) angry that he is being undercut in his role defending the city, and it all goes downhill. Tywin even compliments him (in his cold fashion) on the chain and the Dorneish alliance and his advice on "putting down" Ser Gregor to appease Dorne, yet ends with more sarcasm in response. Then he goes into his whole spiel about Casterly Rock, which he knows was wrong.

 

Maybe I am missing something, but would a small amount of truth and seriousness not go a long way in communicating with his father? I know Tywin is hard, and merciless, but he cares about his legacy and his family name, so shouldn't Tyrion have the wits to work with that? Meet him on a field he understands? I just don't understand why there is never any honest dialog from Tyrion to his father.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

That's asking too much of Tyrion toward a father who has cruelly abused him since he was a child and had his wife labelled as a whore and gang-raped, and who has refused to acknowledge his worth since forever including in this scene. 

And him having a snarky attitude is very clearly a defense mechanism, one that Jaime also have, to face the hostility and accusations of others and to hide their frustrations and ressentment over the way they are treated by others.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

As hard as they are to read, I love the exchanges between Tyrion and Tywin, because I can feel the toxic history that the two have between themselves. Tyrion, for all his wit, just wants to be loved and accepted, and so he's typically not at the top of his game when he's talking to his father. Tywin should have been the primary person to love and accept Tyrion, yet never ceases to remind his second son--either through word, deed, or other nonverbal indication--that he absolutely loathes him. Not to mention the horrific ordeal with Tysha that @Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 has already covered.

And through no fault of his own, Tyrion seems to be the embodiment of everything that inflames Tywin's own deep-seeded insecurities. His obsession with maintaining image and reputation, his need to be taken seriously. And, his sorrow for the partner he lost delivering Tyrion (again, not actually Tyrion's fault, but I have some sympathy for the irrational reality of grief).

Every exchange they have is marinating in this larger context, and it always gets the best of the both of them. It's awful, and tragic, and yet relatable and compelling.

[John Suburbs]

Tyrion likes to think he can read other people, and sometimes he can, be he is not very self-aware. I love the line where he says Tywin lets others talk and keeps his opinions to himself, something that he (Tyrion) tries to emulate. Of really, Tyrion? When have you ever kept your mouth shut?

And if Tyrion simply learned to play ball with his father, basically with the understanding that the needs of House Lannister come before petty, personal concerns, he would have had a much easier time of it.

And at the risk of derailing the thread, I get annoyed with the way Sansa interacts with Joffrey, and frankly, with the way Sam dealt with his situation at home (not that I give either Joffrey or Randyll a pass either). If they had all just played their hands a little smarter they would have been much better off.

[Angel Eyes]

4 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Tyrion likes to think he can read other people, and sometimes he can, be he is not very self-aware. I love the line where he says Tywin lets others talk and keeps his opinions to himself, something that he (Tyrion) tries to emulate. Of really, Tyrion? When have you ever kept your mouth shut?

And if Tyrion simply learned to play ball with his father, basically with the understanding that the needs of House Lannister come before petty, personal concerns, he would have had a much easier time of it.

And at the risk of derailing the thread, I get annoyed with the way Sansa interacts with Joffrey, and frankly, with the way Sam dealt with his situation at home (not that I give either Joffrey or Randyll a pass either). If they had all just played their hands a little smarter they would have been much better off.

A funny thing about Tywin is that he is very good at reading people once over, but never really revises his critique... which tends to bite him in the ass, ie never thinking that Tyrion would ever be angry enough with him to kill him over something; to Tywin, Tyrion would always be the disappointment who "killed" his mother.

[Adam Targaryen]

On 3/4/2022 at 2:26 AM, FourRavensBlackOnWhite said:

Let me start by saying, yes, Tywin emotionally abused and manipulated Tyrion from the time he was a child so i can understand Tyrion's reservations when speaking to his father. However, the consistent lack of truth and seriousness with which Tyrion speaks to Tywin always makes me grind my teeth in frustration.

 

Every interaction is as if Tyrion tries his hardest to be witty, when these are some of the few times his more serious side would command more respect. They don't have too many direct interactions, and only a couple 1 on 1, but this holds particularly true after Tyrion's injury on the blackwater.

1. He goes to see his father in the tower of the hand while injured (this is good and shows strength!)

2. Every single sentence out of his mouth is a joke. Does anyone have any psychological explanation for this? Is it a defense mechanism? Trying to hard to appear "strong" in the one area he is strongest in? (in any case, I call it extreme folly)

3. Tywin comments on the stupidity of his sortie to defend the King's Gate, and instead of indicating the importance of stopping the battering ram, he mentions it in passing and makes a joke, which then eclipses the whole event in his father's eyes

4.Tywin compliments Littlefinger's success in facilitating the Lannister-Tyrell Alliance, and Tyrion thinks to himself how it was his idea, and says nothing.

5. Tyrion then gets (justifiably) angry that he is being undercut in his role defending the city, and it all goes downhill. Tywin even compliments him (in his cold fashion) on the chain and the Dorneish alliance and his advice on "putting down" Ser Gregor to appease Dorne, yet ends with more sarcasm in response. Then he goes into his whole spiel about Casterly Rock, which he knows was wrong.

 

Maybe I am missing something, but would a small amount of truth and seriousness not go a long way in communicating with his father? I know Tywin is hard, and merciless, but he cares about his legacy and his family name, so shouldn't Tyrion have the wits to work with that? Meet him on a field he understands? I just don't understand why there is never any honest dialog from Tyrion to his father.

Yes, I have thought exactly the same and agree wih you to 100 %.

[Hrulj]

On 3/3/2022 at 7:26 PM, FourRavensBlackOnWhite said:

Let me start by saying, yes, Tywin emotionally abused and manipulated Tyrion from the time he was a child so i can understand Tyrion's reservations when speaking to his father. However, the consistent lack of truth and seriousness with which Tyrion speaks to Tywin always makes me grind my teeth in frustration.

 

Every interaction is as if Tyrion tries his hardest to be witty, when these are some of the few times his more serious side would command more respect. They don't have too many direct interactions, and only a couple 1 on 1, but this holds particularly true after Tyrion's injury on the blackwater.

1. He goes to see his father in the tower of the hand while injured (this is good and shows strength!)

2. Every single sentence out of his mouth is a joke. Does anyone have any psychological explanation for this? Is it a defense mechanism? Trying to hard to appear "strong" in the one area he is strongest in? (in any case, I call it extreme folly)

3. Tywin comments on the stupidity of his sortie to defend the King's Gate, and instead of indicating the importance of stopping the battering ram, he mentions it in passing and makes a joke, which then eclipses the whole event in his father's eyes

4.Tywin compliments Littlefinger's success in facilitating the Lannister-Tyrell Alliance, and Tyrion thinks to himself how it was his idea, and says nothing.

5. Tyrion then gets (justifiably) angry that he is being undercut in his role defending the city, and it all goes downhill. Tywin even compliments him (in his cold fashion) on the chain and the Dorneish alliance and his advice on "putting down" Ser Gregor to appease Dorne, yet ends with more sarcasm in response. Then he goes into his whole spiel about Casterly Rock, which he knows was wrong.

 

Maybe I am missing something, but would a small amount of truth and seriousness not go a long way in communicating with his father? I know Tywin is hard, and merciless, but he cares about his legacy and his family name, so shouldn't Tyrion have the wits to work with that? Meet him on a field he understands? I just don't understand why there is never any honest dialog from Tyrion to his father.

Tyrion is faced with dislike of his father since his early age, primarily due to the fact his mother died delivering him. While we can often judge Tywin for dislike the fact of the matter even today, 21st century, when a child dies parents often blame one another and end in divorce. When a child kills another in play - they hold it against the child even if they never say a thing. On it goes. 

 

But primary "Abuse" of Tyrion is Tywin trying to get Tyrion to prove himself worth of Casterly Rock.

 

Tyrion is a dwarf. Westeros is a martial ableist society. Just by his own nature, that of a dwarf, most often employed as jesters, fools and idiots, by his lack of martial ability he loses respect of his vassals. Tyrion can't be just good enough, he needs to go above and beyond if he is ever to rule Westerlands. Tywin knows that. 

In return for all that Tyrion consistently fails and undermines himself, his father, or both. 

One of the early examples of Tywin pushing Tyrion hard is when he denies him a tour of the free cities and puts him in charge of cisters and plumbing. Tyrion makes plenty of jokes about it but it's doubtful he performed above and beyond. 

Then he spends a decade wasting his fathers money, publicly shaming him trough drinking and sexual activities, he is rude and ill mannered to everyone, which he gets away with due to his father and Lannister name. Despite all this Tywin gives him command of men - a chance to prove himself. Tyrion fails.

He gives him a handship. For a while Tyrion is a hand for a King in Minority, a de-facto most powerful man in the kingdom. He can do anything and everything that comes to mind. He has his fathers full authority to kill everyone on the little council if he so wishes. He spends his entire handship on petty intrigues and bickering with his sister. Tyrion is fully aware that Baelish is the reason he got arrested, kidnapped and ultimately led to the entire war - and he does absolutely nothing. He threatens to have his own nephew raped to protect a prostitute he was explicitly told not to bring. He abuses Pycele, his father's loyal man and a Lannister loyalist, due to his loyalty to his sister. He divests Janos Slynt of Harrenhal and sends him to the wall on a whim. He knows he's at war, he knows Stannis and Renly are coming. His only preparation for war is wildfire and the chain. Which ultimately failed to prevent fall of the city. If his father did not show up with Tyrels at the given time the city would have fallen, and with it the King, the Queen, he himself and many others. 

Regardless of failures Tywin awards him essentially all of the North. Gives him a beautiful bride. A chance to rule and prove himself to Lords of Westerlands. He wastes it. He considers himself an amazing man, a man of mercy of not raping a teenage girl. 

He is then shocked when a prostitute that is with him for money doesn't choose to get herself killed by defending him publicly and instead goes along with the threats. He is shocked that a sellsword, who is with him for the money doesn't just throw his life away for Tyrion. And ultimately his time of making enemies instead of friends from amongst all the important and unimportant people in Kings Landings comes to bite him in the ass. The protection of his father slipped and he was shown his work and worth. 

After this Tyrion proceeds to rape a sex slave because she dared not to be attracted to noseless, gaping face wound distorted monstrous dwarf. While at the same time considering a dwarf woman unworthy of him and unnatractive for being a dwarf. 

 

 

[Lord Lannister]

Tywin is going to criticize Tyrion no matter what. He will cherry pick facts to support the conclusion his younger son is a fuckup and ignore all else. It's small wonder Tyrion treats every interaction with his father as a joke. Better to laugh than cry. 

[Apoplexy]

On 3/3/2022 at 7:26 PM, FourRavensBlackOnWhite said:

Maybe I am missing something, but would a small amount of truth and seriousness not go a long way in communicating with his father? I know Tywin is hard, and merciless, but he cares about his legacy and his family name, so shouldn't Tyrion have the wits to work with that? Meet him on a field he understands? I just don't understand why there is never any honest dialog from Tyrion to his father.

There is nothing wrong in giving up trying to make a relationship work. There is nothing inherently good or moral about loving family members no matter what. If anything the Tywin-Tyrion relationship is an extreme example of a bad father-son relationship. There is nothing tyrion can do to improve things with Tywin because Tywin does not want to be on good terms with Tyrion. He thinks all tyrion deserves is derision and insults and than tyrion should be happy about it and ask for more because Tyrion would be worthless/dead if he had not been born a Lannister. 

[FourRavensBlackOnWhite]

21 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

There is nothing wrong in giving up trying to make a relationship work. There is nothing inherently good or moral about loving family members no matter what. 

I never thought of it from this angle. I suppose because Tyrion clearly sees value in "improving" that relationship, so I assumed the value was there. But you are right, it is an impossible battle, and just as Tyrion thinks when he asks his father for The Rock, he probably already knows the answer.

On 3/4/2022 at 11:28 AM, John Suburbs said:

Tyrion likes to think he can read other people, and sometimes he can, be he is not very self-aware. I love the line where he says Tywin lets others talk and keeps his opinions to himself, something that he (Tyrion) tries to emulate. Oh really, Tyrion? When have you ever kept your mouth shut?

Another good observation on Tyrion's character I never explicitly realized! Masterful at reading other people and predicting actions and manipulating, but not a good judge of self. Relatable.

[John Suburbs]

On 3/6/2022 at 8:02 AM, FourRavensBlackOnWhite said:

Another good observation on Tyrion's character I never explicitly realized! Masterful at reading other people and predicting actions and manipulating, but not a good judge of self. Relatable.

To be fair, most characters -- most people in general, actually -- are like this. 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:21 AM, Hrulj said:

But primary "Abuse" of Tyrion is Tywin trying to get Tyrion to prove himself worth of Casterly Rock.

I don't think Tywin is trying to get Tyrion to prove himself worthy of Casterly Rock, I think Tywin was trying to prove to Tyrion that is not worthy of CR. 

 

On 3/5/2022 at 1:21 AM, Hrulj said:

Tyrion is a dwarf. Westeros is a martial ableist society. Just by his own nature, that of a dwarf, most often employed as jesters, fools and idiots, by his lack of martial ability he loses respect of his vassals. Tyrion can't be just good enough, he needs to go above and beyond if he is ever to rule Westerlands. Tywin knows that. 

What more would he need to do to prove himself? When Tywin tells Tyrion why he isn't worthy of CR, he doesn't note any shortcomings politically, he notes that he is a dwarf, he waddles, etc. This doesn't seem to be saying "hey you need to prove yourself" but rather "No matter what you ever do to prove yourself I will still not find you worthy because you cannot change that you are a dwarf"

 

On 3/5/2022 at 1:21 AM, Hrulj said:

Then he spends a decade wasting his fathers money, publicly shaming him trough drinking and sexual activities, he is rude and ill mannered to everyone, which he gets away with due to his father and Lannister name. Despite all this Tywin gives him command of men - a chance to prove himself. Tyrion fails.

I would imagine Tyrion isn't wasting anymore of his fathers money on whores & drinking than Cersei is on dresses & bribes. He definitely isn't rude & ill mannered to everyone, but Tywin can be quite rude himself. Where has he failed after given the command of men? He commanded the men at the battle of black water pretty well, also the men from the Vale (sorry been a long time since I've read them & can't for the life of me remember what they are called.) 

On 3/5/2022 at 1:21 AM, Hrulj said:

He gives him a handship. For a while Tyrion is a hand for a King in Minority, a de-facto most powerful man in the kingdom. He can do anything and everything that comes to mind. He has his fathers full authority to kill everyone on the little council if he so wishes. He spends his entire handship on petty intrigues and bickering with his sister. Tyrion is fully aware that Baelish is the reason he got arrested, kidnapped and ultimately led to the entire war - and he does absolutely nothing. He threatens to have his own nephew raped to protect a prostitute he was explicitly told not to bring. He abuses Pycele, his father's loyal man and a Lannister loyalist, due to his loyalty to his sister. He divests Janos Slynt of Harrenhal and sends him to the wall on a whim. He knows he's at war, he knows Stannis and Renly are coming. His only preparation for war is wildfire and the chain. Which ultimately failed to prevent fall of the city. If his father did not show up with Tyrels at the given time the city would have fallen, and with it the King, the Queen, he himself and many others. 

I think he did fairly well as hand. Which is it though? He has his fathers full authority to kill everyone on the little council or he should be condemned for "abusing" Pycelle? The man isn't a Lannister loyalist anyway, he is a whoever can pay him the most loyalist & what Tyrion needed were truly loyal people. He had every reason to send Janos to the wall, the man is a murderous crook. 

What more preparation should he have taken? It did prevent the fall of the city long enough for his father to arrive. Even Tywin does not suggest Tyrion could have done more but didn't. 

[Hrulj]

3 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

I don't think Tywin is trying to get Tyrion to prove himself worthy of Casterly Rock, I think Tywin was trying to prove to Tyrion that is not worthy of CR. 

 

What more would he need to do to prove himself? When Tywin tells Tyrion why he isn't worthy of CR, he doesn't note any shortcomings politically, he notes that he is a dwarf, he waddles, etc. This doesn't seem to be saying "hey you need to prove yourself" but rather "No matter what you ever do to prove yourself I will still not find you worthy because you cannot change that you are a dwarf"

 

I would imagine Tyrion isn't wasting anymore of his fathers money on whores & drinking than Cersei is on dresses & bribes. He definitely isn't rude & ill mannered to everyone, but Tywin can be quite rude himself. Where has he failed after given the command of men? He commanded the men at the battle of black water pretty well, also the men from the Vale (sorry been a long time since I've read them & can't for the life of me remember what they are called.) 

I think he did fairly well as hand. Which is it though? He has his fathers full authority to kill everyone on the little council or he should be condemned for "abusing" Pycelle? The man isn't a Lannister loyalist anyway, he is a whoever can pay him the most loyalist & what Tyrion needed were truly loyal people. He had every reason to send Janos to the wall, the man is a murderous crook. 

What more preparation should he have taken? It did prevent the fall of the city long enough for his father to arrive. Even Tywin does not suggest Tyrion could have done more but didn't. 

I don't believe that. Troughout the story Tywins attitude with his children is more akin to a teacher trying to get them to figure out something than pawing down at them for no reason. 

 

Being a dwarf, waddling about is a huge problem in Westeros. Tyrion doesn't have the behavior that instills respect to make up for those shortcomings. Or people skills that would help out. He constantly relies on his money and fear of his father to get what he wants. His violence is petty and he craves power for sake of sticking it up to everyone rather than some genuine plans for how to rule or desire to rule. Once Tywin is dead, Tyrion rules, Cersei is a Queen mother, Joffrey hates Tyrion and Jaime is just a kingsguard how does Tyrion get others to obey? 

 

Cersei can spend as much as she wants, she's a queen, it's part of her position. She's spending crown's money, not strictly Tywins. Dresses and bribes don't cause as much public disrespect as whoring, drinking and bad company. 

 

Ok, who is Tyrion nice to? 

He has his fathers full authority. He knows Littlefinger set him up. He does nothing. Pycelle has been in his father's pocket for decades. If not half a century by that point. He abused him not because Pycelle is easy to bribe but because he chose Queen Cersei over him. 

He didn't know his father is coming. He gambled and lost the gamble. Making a war plan and being saved when it failes by Deus Ex Machina isn't a good war plan or leadership skills. 

Get royal family out would be the biggest one 

[Angel Eyes]

4 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

I would imagine Tyrion isn't wasting anymore of his fathers money on whores & drinking than Cersei is on dresses & bribes. He definitely isn't rude & ill mannered to everyone, but Tywin can be quite rude himself. Where has he failed after given the command of men? He commanded the men at the battle of black water pretty well, also the men from the Vale (sorry been a long time since I've read them & can't for the life of me remember what they are called.) 

Which also begs the question as to why Tywin allows Tyrion to do what he wants with his money. If he's embarrassed about Tyrion using Lannister money to pay for whores and drinking, why not refuse him money and leave him financially strapped?

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Which also begs the question as to why Tywin allows Tyrion to do what he wants with his money. If he's embarrassed about Tyrion using Lannister money to pay for whores and drinking, why not refuse him money and leave him financially strapped?

Exactly. Because it isn't about Tywin allowing Tyrion to prove himself worth of CR, it's about Tywin proving to Tyrion he isn't worthy of it. 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

3 hours ago, Hrulj said:

I don't believe that. Troughout the story Tywins attitude with his children is more akin to a teacher trying to get them to figure out something than pawing down at them for no reason. 

I respectfully disagree. Tywin tries to guide Cersei & Jaime, but he is only interested in putting Tyrion to shame. 

 

3 hours ago, Hrulj said:

Being a dwarf, waddling about is a huge problem in Westeros. Tyrion doesn't have the behavior that instills respect to make up for those shortcomings. Or people skills that would help out. He constantly relies on his money and fear of his father to get what he wants. His violence is petty and he craves power for sake of sticking it up to everyone rather than some genuine plans for how to rule or desire to rule. Once Tywin is dead, Tyrion rules, Cersei is a Queen mother, Joffrey hates Tyrion and Jaime is just a kingsguard how does Tyrion get others to obey?

I disagree, I think Tyrion does exhibit behavior that instills respect. I think Tyrion practices much of the same policy Tywin does, in fact. 

All of the Lannisters rely on the fear the name brings & the money they have, except maybe Jaime. Tywin would be no one with nothing if he didn't rely on the fear & money, Cersei certainly never would have become Queen with out it. 

What makes you think Tyrion craves power? Or anything else you've said about him, really. You can make the claim but without text to back it, it is only the feeling you get. 

If Tyrion is ruling others obey because he has the entirety of the Lannisters money, fear, and the entirety of the Kings money & fear backing him...

3 hours ago, Hrulj said:

Cersei can spend as much as she wants, she's a queen, it's part of her position. She's spending crown's money, not strictly Tywins. Dresses and bribes don't cause as much public disrespect as whoring, drinking and bad company. 

And with whose money did she get into the position of Queen? It's Lannister money bailing out the crown repeatedly as well. 

Speaking of whoring, do you not find it highly hypocritical that the whore Tyrion was forbidden to bring to KL is found in Tywins bed? What right does Tywin have to condemn Tyrion for having a whore when he had a wife & Tywin ruined it & Tywin is apparently into the same thing - whoring. 

4 hours ago, Hrulj said:

Ok, who is Tyrion nice to?

Jon, Bran, Catelyn (even after she arrested him for no reason), Bronn, Shae, Tysha, the mountain clans, the men of the NW, Tommen, Myrcella, Jaime, etc. Tons of people. 

 

4 hours ago, Hrulj said:

He has his fathers full authority. He knows Littlefinger set him up. He does nothing. Pycelle has been in his father's pocket for decades. If not half a century by that point. He abused him not because Pycelle is easy to bribe but because he chose Queen Cersei over him. 

Yeah, I wish he would have done something about LF but Tywin, Cersei, Robert, nor Joffrey did anything about him either. 

How can Tyrion rule effectively if the people he is trying to work with are going behind his back to his insane sister? 

 

4 hours ago, Hrulj said:

He didn't know his father is coming. He gambled and lost the gamble. Making a war plan and being saved when it failes by Deus Ex Machina isn't a good war plan or leadership skills. 

I didn't say he knew his father was coming, I'm saying what more could he have done? What more could Tywin have done in the same situation? He didn't gamble, he did all he could do. 

[Loose Bolt]

8 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

I disagree, I think Tyrion does exhibit behavior that instills respect. I think Tyrion practices much of the same policy Tywin does, in fact. 

But that policy works only as long as Tywin is still around. Or as long there is a possibility that Tywin will support Tyrion. So by killing his father Tyrion also wiped out his main supporter.

In fact I assume that without support of strong master/mistress Tyrion would have similar destiny than Emperor Julianus. (He ruled Rome only 9 weeks until he was assassinated bc people he bribed to become emperor did not fight for him.)

Or I agree with Tywin that Tyrion would be very bad choice as Lord of CR bc he would either become a puppet for somebody or his bannermen would rebel/ignore him like they did during "rule" of Lord Tytos.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

On 3/3/2022 at 5:26 PM, FourRavensBlackOnWhite said:

particularly true after Tyrion's injury on the blackwater.

On 3/3/2022 at 5:26 PM, FourRavensBlackOnWhite said:

Every single sentence out of his mouth is a joke.

He does act like a foolish monkey…

On 3/3/2022 at 5:26 PM, FourRavensBlackOnWhite said:

extreme folly

A folly in deed.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

5 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

But that policy works only as long as Tywin is still around. Or as long there is a possibility that Tywin will support Tyrion. So by killing his father Tyrion also wiped out his main supporter.

In fact I assume that without support of strong master/mistress Tyrion would have similar destiny than Emperor Julianus. (He ruled Rome only 9 weeks until he was assassinated bc people he bribed to become emperor did not fight for him.)

Or I agree with Tywin that Tyrion would be very bad choice as Lord of CR bc he would either become a puppet for somebody or his bannermen would rebel/ignore him like they did during "rule" of Lord Tytos.

Sure, it only works as long as he has Tywin around & now he doesn't. He will have to make his own way now. I think Tyrion is quite capable of earning respect from his bannermen, but seeing as how he hasn't been in that position we don't know for sure. 

Tyrion would have all of the tools at hand needed to rule just like Tywin if he so wished. There is zero chance more than one bannermen would ignore him, the rest would learn from the first. 

[H Wadsworth Longfellow]

It's the author's brand of humor.  It shows in Tyrion.