Ukraine War 6: what the hell are the Russians thinking?

[DMC]

10 minutes ago, Toth said:

Didn't they also do a 180° turn after realizing that the vast majority of their viewer base still likes American jingoism slightly more than licking Putin's autocratic boots?

Yeah, Hannity in particular.

44 minutes ago, Kalibuster said:

Another similar shades of Iraq in terms of politicians wanting to paint a far roster view of things than they were. 

I think it's important to keep in mind that we're all susceptible to this type of groupthink, particularly when it comes to selective exposure of war reporting.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Fez said:

But the network does still bring on that insane retired colonel (I forget his name, he was Trump's pick to be Amb. to Germany and was so nuts McConnell refused to ever bring his name up for a confirmation vote)

Douglas Macgregor.  I imagine Trump simply just liked how close his name is to MacArthur.

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

 

I think it's important to keep in mind that we're all susceptible to this type of groupthink, particularly when it comes to selective exposure of war reporting.

Yep! As I mentioned last week, when information is coming fast and facts aren't well known be careful of any information but be especially careful of info that confirms the things you think or want to be true. 

[Kalbear]

Also

 

[Corvinus85]

I see there are growing voices in Germany calling for the re-introduction of the military compulsory service.

When societies stop functioning like pendulums maybe then humanity will evolve.

[DMC]

36 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

When societies stop functioning like pendulums maybe then humanity will evolve.

Heh, this is certainly a good point in general.  Although looking up the German conscription thing, gotta admit I don't find the proposal, necessarily, too radical:

Quote

Patrick Sensburg, the president of the German Reservists' Association, has called for the reintroduction of military service through a general framework for both men and women.

This could take the form of "one year in which young people who are of age and have completed their education do something for the state and the community", he told the Rheinische Post newspaper.

Policywise I've always thought some type of compulsory service like this - where things like Teacher Corps or *gasp* the Peace Corps also count - doesn't sound too bad.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Ah, the compulsory service, yeah.

I was also drafted after highschool. I preferred the non-military alternative, mentioned it before, that was a chilled job at this residence for people with handicaps. The social alternative was slightly longer than the military would've been. 

Anyway, the conscription had some legal issues. Mainly not every male received the a letter from those mofos. Which was inherently unjust. At the end, the service time was too short. The down side for the military, after the conscription went away, they ended up with a recruitment problem. Bear in mind, we are talking about Germany not the US. So army recruiters showing up at public schools to praise the benefits of the military is just not a thing. They tried that a few times in recent years, and the public feedback was not great. Germany in general, does not share Americans massive boner for its military. That is really an American fetish. Further downside was, the self-selection of people wanting to join the military. Well, let's just say, doing away with conscription certainly did not lead to strong believers in democratic values signing up in numbers compared to right wing nutjobs. I mean, in the public perception that's always been the case to a not so small degree. But the end of the conscription made that problem much worse.

[polishgenius]

2 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

That is really an American fetish.

 

To be fair, it's not: America might take it to the most extreme, but Germany is (or has been) equally unusual in the opposite direction, in my experience. Obviously, there are reasons for that. But the UK definitely has a degree of military fetishisation and from my small experience, Poland somewhat has too, if neither to the extent of sending recruiters directly to schools (they definitely target recruitment at youth, though, in the UK).

[DMC]

12 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Bear in mind, we are talking about Germany not the US. So army recruiters showing up at public schools to praise the benefits of the military is just not a thing. They tried that a few times in recent years, and the public feedback was not great. Germany in general, does not share Americans massive boner for its military. That is really an American fetish.

America's military fetish doesn't really extend to actually signing up for service.  (Although, yes, in certain regions and demographics this is still very much a thing, as it is throughout the world.)  Per wikipedia, they rank 73rd in the world in personnel per capita total and 51st per capita among active troops (omitting reservists).

[polishgenius]

5 minutes ago, DMC said:

America's military fetish doesn't really extend to actually signing up for service.  (Although, yes, in certain regions and demographics this is still very much a thing, as it is throughout the world.)  Per wikipedia, they rank 74th in the world in personnel per capita total and 51st per capita among active troops (omitting reservists).

 

 

Aye but to be fair many if not most of those above them either have mandatory service, or a specific recent history or outside threat that would encourage patriotic militarism (or both since the one is often a response to the other of course). 

[KingintheNorth4]

18 minutes ago, DMC said:

America's military fetish doesn't really extend to actually signing up for service.  (Although, yes, in certain regions and demographics this is still very much a thing, as it is throughout the world.)  Per wikipedia, they rank 73rd in the world in personnel per capita total and 51st per capita among active troops (omitting reservists).

The military fetishization comes from the armchair patriots who never served a day in their lives.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

26 minutes ago, DMC said:

America's military fetish doesn't really extend to actually signing up for service.  (Although, yes, in certain regions and demographics this is still very much a thing, as it is throughout the world.)  Per wikipedia, they rank 73rd in the world in personnel per capita total and 51st per capita among active troops (omitting reservists).

Well, don't you have like 2 day hollidays for the military, Veteran's Day and Memorial Day?

This may be a peer group thing, but I very much doubt that you'd hear an American teenager utter a slogan like:  I am nothing, I can do shit. Pass me a uniform.

 

[DMC]

19 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Aye but to be fair many if not most of those above them either have mandatory service, or a specific recent history or outside threat that would encourage patriotic militarism (or both since the one is often a response to the other of course). 

Yes, it is certainly very high, if not at the top, when it comes to "comparative" countries.  Especially when it comes to active troops.  However, when you look at the ranking that includes reservists - which is closer to what we're talking about when it comes to compulsory service - the per capita rates aren't all that much higher than France.  Which was my point, the depiction of America's boner for the military extending to service is an exaggeration and/or misnomer.

1 minute ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

This may be a peer group thing, but I very much doubt that you'd hear an American teenager utter a slogan like:  I am nothing, I can do shit. Pass me a uniform.

I don't know what your point is here.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

3 minutes ago, DMC said:

 

I don't know what your point is here.

Just wanted to further stress how much the view on the military differs between the US and Germany. 

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Just wanted to further stress how much the view on the military differs between the US and Germany. 

I still don't get how that illustrates that point, but whatever. 

I'm certainly not arguing the American and German views on the military are pretty much diametrically opposed.  Just saying this isn't exactly reflected in Americans signing up for service.  And I think that is an important point to emphasize because, as KitN noted, many of the Americans that espouse and propagate this hard-on have zero interest in actually serving.

[Ser Reptitious]

Next spin-off thread for Scot to start? 

[DMC]

Just now, Ser Reptitious said:

Next spin-off thread for Scot to start? 

LOL, I think it's run its course, or at least I'm done.  Please Scot no mas!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

9 minutes ago, Ser Reptitious said:

Next spin-off thread for Scot to start? 

There’s no meat to this one.

[DMC]

Bennett/Israel really seem to be working it in trying to act as mediator:

Quote

Israel’s prime minister spoke Sunday evening by phone with Russian President Vladimir Putin, a day after his snap trip to Moscow to discuss the more than weeklong Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Naftali Bennett also spoke with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, whom he visited in Berlin on Saturday as well, and French President Emmanuel Macron, his office said.

Bennett has also spoken on the phone multiple times with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy — most recently Sunday morning — as part of his shuttle diplomacy to mediate between Ukraine and Russia after more than a week of fighting.

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Cynical me thinks, that Israel'S main concern is to stop  the revival of the Iran deal.  The pressure to revive it, would certainly increase, if oil embargos are the next stop. Somebody would need to step in to make up for the short fall of Russian oil.