The Last Kingdom - new season out today

[Zorral]

I will start episode 5 tonight.  Things don't seem at all 'off' to me, now that I'm this far.  It did take some time to get all the pieces rolling and positioned, for the main plots and storylines, and by the end of episode 3 and 4 I was totally engaged. I wanted to keep watching too, except it was late, so if I were to get enough sleep to do anything today, had to shut 'er down.

I’ve always loved the look of this show, how they visually interpret and present the times. This season, there is a subtle shift, to an interpretation of this early medieval era in clothes and décor. to what became a prevalent interpretation by way of influence of the English Pre-Raphaelite artists, which then was smoothed out with the steam press making possible color illustrations in books and magazines in the later 19th Century. This is particularly so in the scenes in Mercia, and featuring Aethelflaed. Particularly, the Lady of Mercia’s funeral byre, her body surrounded by and crowned with flowers, was right of the Pre-Raphaelite paintings of Ophelia and the Lady of Shalott. I was reminded a great deal of the illustrations in my great-grandmother's handed-down Ivanhoe by Walter Scott, for instance, particularly with the flowing robes, richness of the fabrics on beds, at windows and on the floor.

Spoiler

The oddest co-plot is Father Pyrlig’s with Brida, as she wants to torture and kill him, or get him to force his god to restore her dead daughter to life, or convert her.  But it fits in with the entire series, as this sort of thing has done in the Vikings/Valhalla series – the historical, constant clash of religions with the newer one coming to reign supreme, as leaders accept Christianity for a variety of reasons, not least for political and mercantile advantages. In many ways the most successful characters on this show are the three Christians, Beocca, Pyrlig and Eadith.  As well as Alfred and Aelswith, in earlier seasons.  Whether or not we find Aelwith sympathetic, she’s a magnificently coherent and comprehensible figure, acted with such great skill by Butterworth

Speaking of what will happen, what will happen to Uthred’s castrated priest son? Castrated by Brida?

 

[SeanF]

I’ve finished Episode 4, and enjoyed it so far.

I’m not sure that Ælfwynn is safe from her uncle, now.

[Corvinus85]

3 episodes in. The show continues to have strong character moments but I do find Brida to be a bit of a caricature, though Cornwell didn't do her any service either. 

My problem with season 4 was mainly about how far it diverged from the books but also that it dropped all pretenses of having any historical accuracies, especially anything that has to do with battles. Which was a great shame considering how the show began. Season 5 is continuing this trend, but not so egregious yet.

The non-aging of characters is indeed a very awkward thing. I can't take a bearded Edward with a nigh a hair on his chest seriously. I'm not sure why Ælswith has been kept alive so far into the show when so other characters were cruelly disposed of and considering that she continues to behave like a Karen. But the actress has done a good job throughout the series, so maybe that's why.

[The Merling King]

I finished episode 8 last night and have been enjoying this season so far.

I wish we got more numbers on the sizes of the various armies for example the West Saxon host King Edward brought north, the Mercian guard, Athelhelm and Sytriggers armies etc. Any one have an educated guess or estimate?

I can’t remember if in the previous seasons they mention how many men Lord Odda or Lord Athelhelm, the two most powerful Eldorman in Wessex, could raise in there Fyrd.

[SeanF]

Episode 5.  It's a bit of a bugbear of mine that a high ranking person, such as a Queen, would be travelling without bodyguards.

[Zorral]

34 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Episode 5.  It's a bit of a bugbear of mine that a high ranking person, such as a Queen, would be travelling without bodyguards.

She sneaked away.  King Edward was occupied with his more compatible, new lady to bother even thinking about her, and her father was occupied in nefarious plotting, so he wasn't thinking about his daughter either, who didn't even rank as a person in his brain, only a pawn in his drive to power.  This is the first time I've ever seen this happen which seemed plausible.  It's also balanced by Aelfwynn riding off on her own, which was noticed immediately everyone from grandmother to Aldheim; pursuit followed immediately. The only reason Aelfwynn was able to pull that off in the first place was the necessity of her fleeing with only her grandmother, as both Edward and Aethehelm were so engaged in their individual plots to grab Mercia. And, by golly, what happened to her is exactly what would happen to a still naif princess type who galloped off on her own in a snit when rival powers are in open conflict.

Two more episodes to go.  There are so many brilliant set pieces in this series.  I had to stop for a while last night,

Spoiler

just as I did with Aethelflaed's dying interval and funeral,  after the final battle of Brida and Uthred, and its conclusion. The pain of Brida's loneliness, her isolation, enters one's own heart like that arrow.  One by one, the women Uhtred loves and who love him are gone or going.  In this battle he loses both Brida -- his past Before -- and his beloved daughter. The cutting to past moments in Brida and Uhtred's long and complicated relationship during their fight -- this was powerfully effective.  I kept exclaiming, "This is perfect!"  Now it seems all he has left is the past from Before the Danes, his quest for  Bebbanburg.

Many answers to the questions as to Edward the Elder's numbers in battles and so on can be found at http://www.anglo-saxons.net/hwaet/?

[SpaceChampion]

I finished the season a few nights ago.   I haven't read any of the books.

The finale battle

Spoiler

was tense and well done, I thought.  Though certain parts of the pre-battle action seems to pause for other characters to catch up.

Definitely felt like a series finale, except for one thing.  But there's another movie to come?  Cool, I'm here for it.

[The Young Maester]

I personally love how an army large enough to occupy Jorvik (city of york), marches up the gates unnoticed and just takes it, just like that.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

Absolutely loved this season and the satisfying ending…makes me think we don’t really need a two hour movie to tie things up further , they ended it perfectly. Destiny is all indeed

 

one of the few shows that maintained its quality for the most part and which I completed from start to finish in these last few years 

[SeanF]

7 minutes ago, Zorral said:

She sneaked away.  King Edward was occupied with his more compatible, new lady to bother even thinking about her, and her father was occupied in nefarious plotting, so he wasn't thinking about his daughter either, who didn't even rank as a person in his brain, only a pawn in his drive to power.  This is the first time I've ever seen this happen which seemed plausible.  It's also balanced by Aelfwynn riding off on her own, which was noticed immediately everyone from grandmother to Aldheim; pursuit followed immediately. The only reason Aelfwynn was able to pull that off in the first place was the necessity of her fleeing with only her grandmother, as both Edward and Aethehelm were so engaged in their individual plots to grab Mercia. And, by golly, what happened to her is exactly what would happen to a still naif princess type who galloped off on her own in a snit when rival powers are in open conflict.

 

 

That is an explanation, but even so, I can't believe that a queen (or even a group of pilgrims) would travel across early medieval England without guards.  That's why pilgrims travelled in large groups.  Even if they didn't have professional guards, there would be plenty of men of fighting age among them, carrying swords, daggers, staffs etc. 

Aelfwynn fleeing with Aelswith is certainly more plausible.  If Edward wanted to install, say, Athelstan on the throne of Mercia, then she'd make a good bride for him, but since he wants to rule in his own name, there must be every chance he'd have her killed.

[Zorral]

Well, there is that notion among the more fanatical Christians that God will preserve them doing what is God's will, which we do see a lot of on the series, and which doesn't seem to ever turn out so well.

What I found more difficult to swallow is that Aethehelm could just so easily take over the Scot king's castle, doing the welcoming, holding councils of war and so on.  But then that seems to go along with the shooting necessity of having such long journeys either by foot or horseback, from Mercia to Scotland, while carrying a kidnapped king's daughter in the saddle before one, without food or other supplies, and arrive so quickly and in such good looking condition . . . .

 

[SeanF]

On 3/12/2022 at 5:14 PM, Zorral said:

I will start episode 5 tonight.  Things don't seem at all 'off' to me, now that I'm this far.  It did take some time to get all the pieces rolling and positioned, for the main plots and storylines, and by the end of episode 3 and 4 I was totally engaged. I wanted to keep watching too, except it was late, so if I were to get enough sleep to do anything today, had to shut 'er down.

I’ve always loved the look of this show, how they visually interpret and present the times. This season, there is a subtle shift, to an interpretation of this early medieval era in clothes and décor. to what became a prevalent interpretation by way of influence of the English Pre-Raphaelite artists, which then was smoothed out with the steam press making possible color illustrations in books and magazines in the later 19th Century. This is particularly so in the scenes in Mercia, and featuring Aethelflaed. Particularly, the Lady of Mercia’s funeral byre, her body surrounded by and crowned with flowers, was right of the Pre-Raphaelite paintings of Ophelia and the Lady of Shalott. I was reminded a great deal of the illustrations in my great-grandmother's handed-down Ivanhoe by Walter Scott, for instance, particularly with the flowing robes, richness of the fabrics on beds, at windows and on the floor.

  Hide contents

The oddest co-plot is Father Pyrlig’s with Brida, as she wants to torture and kill him, or get him to force his god to restore her dead daughter to life, or convert her.  But it fits in with the entire series, as this sort of thing has done in the Vikings/Valhalla series – the historical, constant clash of religions with the newer one coming to reign supreme, as leaders accept Christianity for a variety of reasons, not least for political and mercantile advantages. In many ways the most successful characters on this show are the three Christians, Beocca, Pyrlig and Eadith.  As well as Alfred and Aelswith, in earlier seasons.  Whether or not we find Aelwith sympathetic, she’s a magnificently coherent and comprehensible figure, acted with such great skill by Butterworth

Speaking of what will happen, what will happen to Uthred’s castrated priest son? Castrated by Brida?

 

Although both the books and show posit a big divide between Saxon and Dane, I suspect the real divide was between Christian and Pagan.  There was no real attempt to drive the Danes from England after they converted.

[Zorral]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

I suspect the real divide was between Christian and Pagan.  There was no real attempt to drive the Danes from England after they converted.

This is why political leaders are so often in history determined there be only unitarian religion -- i.e. everyone one must believe exactly the same thing and only one thing.  Dissension in religion can lead to political dissension all too easily.  That's a big part of what broke the western Christian church from the eastern Christian church.  Not to mention so many other divisions within Christian belief systems.  Another of myriad examples you can come up with, without even taking any time to think about it, is how determined the Pope and his French church potentates get rid of the Cathars -- which if that meant murdering the local count who preferred religious tolerance within his realm, so be it.

And that's only Christians.  Every religious system had these intra and inter religious wars, some that went on for centuries

Religion = political identity.  Just like organized spectator sports -- which, for an old example of that, within the Greek Church, which color of chariot team you wore.

 

[SeanF]

22 minutes ago, Zorral said:

This is why political leaders are so often in history determined there be only unitarian religion -- i.e. everyone one must believe exactly the same thing and only one thing.  Dissension in religion can lead to political dissension all too easily.  That's a big part of what broke the western Christian church from the eastern Christian church.  Not to mention so many other divisions within Christian belief systems.  Another of myriad examples you can come up with, without even taking any time to think about it, is how determined the Pope and his French church potentates get rid of the Cathars -- which if that meant murdering the local count who preferred religious tolerance within his realm, so be it.

And that's only Christians.  Every religious system had these intra and inter religious wars, some that went on for centuries

Religion = political identity.  Just like organized spectator sports -- which, for an old example of that, within the Greek Church, which color of chariot team you wore.

 

All true, although as English history showed, even sharing a religion did not stop Scandinavian kings from descending on England.

As at Episode 8, I can’t thinking that Aethelhelm is actually right about Aelfweard and Aelfwynn, for all that he’s a treacherous piece of weasel shit.  Edward is so ruthless that he would not shrink from executing either of them to secure the succession for his children by Eadgifu, in the case of the former, and his position in Mercia, in the case of the latter.

[Zorral]

8 minutes ago, SeanF said:

All true, although as English history showed, even sharing a religion did not stop Scandinavian kings from descending on England.

You mean like William the Bastard?  

Ya, like so many in The Last Kingdom, your religion often is not a shield and sword protecting you from the wrath of others -- not even the wrath of the Northman.

[Zorral]

By the way here's a great way to get more information about English history, and get by listening, if you have long commutes, or need to do a lot of physical work around the house --

https://www.thebritishhistorypodcast.com/

 

O darn, I missed something you commented above regarding Edward and Aethehelm --

Spoiler

it was a huge shock when we learned that it was Edward who had the Aeldermen murdered -- I'd initially assumed it was Aethehelm -- so then I assumed at first it was Edward who murdered his queen as part of his strategy to take out the Danes from York.

 

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, Zorral said:

By the way here's a great way to get more information about English history, and get by listening, if you have long commutes, or need to do a lot of physical work around the house --

https://www.thebritishhistorypodcast.com/

 

O darn, I missed something you commented above regarding Edward and Aethehelm --

  Hide contents

it was a huge shock when we learned that it was Edward who had the Aeldermen murdered -- I'd initially assumed it was Aethehelm -- so then I assumed at first it was Edward who murdered his queen as part of his strategy to take out the Danes from York.

 

 

All of Edward's sons became kings, although it seems that Athelstan overthrew Aelfweard within a matter of weeks, after Edward's death.  It may well be that Edward intended Wessex to go to Aelfweard and Mercia to Athelstan.   Athelstan was succeed by his half-brothers by Eadgifu, Eadred and Edgar.  For hundreds of years afterwards, Athelstan was regarded as the greatest English king, although Alfred is probably better known today.

Aelfwynn seems to have mostly disappeared from history, after Edward took over Mercia.  Either she was confined to a convent, or married to a lord (there are a couple of Aelfwynns recorded at the time).

Alfred himself (both in the show and real life) seems to have had an unusually strong moral code, in not having had Aethelwold put do death (and the latter repaid his kindness by rebellion).

 

[Zorral]

9 hours ago, SeanF said:

All of Edward's sons became kings

He had at least 14 children, and 3 -- or was it 4 wives? -- so they didn't all become kings!  

Woo, that was a conclusion  I'm so glad

Spoiler

he's got back the place where dear Beocca died.

I'm also glad

Spoiler

we got to see via Uhtred's flash memories while fighting, while standing upon his regained ancestral home and lands the people who meant the most to him throughout the seasons we watched.  It wasn't phoney sentimental tv hash either -- we invested ourselves as watchers in all those characters, didn't we? And they are all gone, including Alfred, who played such a role in his life and destiny.  Beocca was the first, then it was Brida and Alfred, who were there, who were part of so much of it.  Brida, as much as Aethelflaed, in antagonistic ways too, with the Danish-pagan / Saxon-Christian dichotomy -- or the balance of his destiny, to always be between the two, as he's now put Bebbanburg and Northumberland between Edward and the Scots.

The actor who played the Scots' king, Constantine II, was compelling, a worthy antagonist.

So many wonderful characters over these 5 season, so many, and one way and another, as with Hild -- and Haeston! --, we got to see them all again -- with the great exception of Traitor Fool Supreme, Aethelwold. Which is commentary on Uhtred's character and what matters in his life -- ultimately not not is enemies, but his friends and loved ones, and, of course, Alfred.  These were his destiny.

 

[SeanF]

This was far better than later seasons of A Game of Thrones.  It is far more honest about war and kingship in a medieval setting.  Nobody wins wars through convoluted strategies of non-violent resistance;  no one is expected to show unconditional forgiveness to enemies;  no one is expected to adhere to The Hague or Geneva conventions;  any successful ruler, however sympathetic, has to be ruthless, in order to survive.

[Zorral]

Well, to be fair, I have no idea what GOT was supposed to be.  It sure as heck didn't feel in the least medieval on the page or screen, unconnected to anything actually historical. It didn't feel in the least like France or England -- certainly not the near east or the steppes -- of the 14th century.

The Last Kingdom is quite early medieval period -- Charlemagne's barely in his mausoleum.  Prolonged brutality, overtly, and also by chipping away at the Saxon-held lands, language and customs arrived immediately with the Bastard and went on a long time, followed by the internecine brutality of the Plantagenets, particularly in the time of the Mauds, Matildas and Stephen. Popes did use excommunication by then.  By the high medieval period, popes etc. could and did declare days and periods when overt hostilities ceased. In England at least, the Wars of the Roses were fairly confined, and most of the non-nobles tended to carry on as usual. But, as I'm no expert, the chances that I'm wrong are not negligible!