Jaxom 1974 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Released today, March 11, 2022...it's something... Fantasy... I can't say I know all of the stories. Some I now want to. But knowing the subjective nature of the topic, I think the seeding of some of these is the part for discussion. SF list is linked on page 2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mix_masta_micah Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Honestly I like a lot of the selections. Just baffled that Sanderson is higher than GRRM tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underfoot Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Seems like some recency bias in the selections. No Robin Hobb is a travesty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazzack Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 I've had a quick glance over it and colour me intrigued by some of the selections. The recency bias that I am picking up does not offend me as much as it has in other similar lists, which have seemed like grab-bags of YA and mediocre but popular works from the last five years with the occasional legacy choice to class it up. I love Robin Hobb so, so, so much, but I had grown sick of seeing lists that were predictable and advocating mostly the same authors each time, so I don't tend to begrudge the breaking out of what I'm used to seeing be recommended. Thus it is nice to see some space given to writers like G. Willow Wilson, whose Alif the Unseen I really liked. I also like that they are spicing up the selections for particular authors and picking lesser known works, such as Latro in the Mist by Gene Wolfe. That said, I'm mighty sick of seeing Sanderson (whose work I have enjoyed) anywhere near these types of lists. There's just too many writers that are better than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 No Terry Pratchett means that the list has sadly failed... ...but honestly it's refreshing to see a list like this by a non-genre publication compiled by someone who clearly does love the genre. I'm gonna have to give A Stranger in Olondria another try, I never got through it on my first go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Underfoot said: Seems like some recency bias in the selections. Insane amounts of it. I thought, okay, the first two ... and then it was just more and more things published in the last decade. WTF? This is a list of 50 recommended titles. That's fine. It's definitely not any kind of honest "best fantasy" list except for SEO purposes. 4 hours ago, Underfoot said: No Robin Hobb is a travesty Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Pretty interesting list, I agree there's a lot of recency bias, as well as omissions and weird selections/orderings but the result is still a weird world where with 50 entries Esquire of all publications manages to puts together a better and more interesting list than Time's top 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog-days Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Not sure about a 'best ever' list, but it does manage to include some interesting titles. I've added a couple to my own reading list - the Okorafor, and the Miyazawa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 23 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said: Released today, March 11, 2022...it's something... I can't say I know all of the stories. Some I now want to. But knowing the subjective nature of the topic, I think the seeding of some of these is the part for discussion. There are quite a few I hadn't heard of before, some of which do sound interesting. Out of the 15 that I have read I don't object to any of them being on such a list, although in some cases I'd probably have picked a different book by the author. There is a lot missing that I would have included such as something from the Long Price Quartet, The Curse of Chalion, The Goblin Emperor, one of the better Malazan books, The Anubis Gates, probably lots of others if I thought about it a bit more. 22 hours ago, mix_masta_micah said: Honestly I like a lot of the selections. Just baffled that Sanderson is higher than GRRM tbh While I liked The Shadow Rising I do think ranking Wheel of Time above ASOIAF is an eccentric choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mix_masta_micah Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 13 hours ago, williamjm said: There are quite a few I hadn't heard of before, some of which do sound interesting. Out of the 15 that I have read I don't object to any of them being on such a list, although in some cases I'd probably have picked a different book by the author. There is a lot missing that I would have included such as something from the Long Price Quartet, The Curse of Chalion, The Goblin Emperor, one of the better Malazan books, The Anubis Gates, probably lots of others if I thought about it a bit more. While I liked The Shadow Rising I do think ranking Wheel of Time above ASOIAF is an eccentric choice. Definitely agreed re WoT. No Hobb or Williams hurts me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, mix_masta_micah said: Definitely agreed re WoT. No Hobb or Williams hurts me too. Even the evident bias towards recent books can't explain the lack of Abercrombie either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 I mean, there's always gonna be things missing- no Erikson, Abraham, Stover, or most greviously, Pratchett are my big mises- but at the same time (1) the aim was clearly not to build an epic/heroic/medieval fantasy list which our tastes are gonna tend towards just coz of the nature of the forum and would have been really easy to fall into, and (2) as much as I'd like seeing the authors we all know and love represented, a list compiled only of that would be of no use to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 Oh absolutely. There are several flaws with this list. However, they really do lay out their methodology, which seems, at least on it's surface, to be a tad more comprehensive than some others...and the other thing is that there doesn't seem to be an impetus to be selling books, like you'd get from some other lists out there too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 A tie-in novel to the video game Myst is the tenth greatest fantasy novel ever written? Really? I mean, I haven’t read it, maybe it is. Fifth Season was very good, but best ever … nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 It's really just the title that is bizarre. There's no way the writer(s) genuinely believes all of these titles are the "best fantasy books of all time." And there's a bit of reach, as well: "books that brought something new and innovative to the genre—books that inspired other fantasy writers as well as readers." How can a book published last month be an inspiration to other fantasy writers? What writer has said they're writing something inspired by having read Moon Witch, Spider King? It's totally cool as 50 recommended titles. The "best fantasy of all time" is just for clicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 I agree that this has recency bias and should be a "recommended" list rather than labeled a "best of all time" list. I would like to have seen Robin Hobb, John Crowley (LIttle, Big) and T. H. White (The Once and Future King) on it, and perhaps R. A. MacAvoy, though I realize she may be more a matter of my personal taste than someone influential in the field. As someone who was really an Oz fanatic as a child, I really appreciated the list including L. Frank Baum. However, if they were going to included children's books (and the Oz books are really "chapter books" for kids 8-13 rather than "young adult" books for teens) I am sure there should be more included than just Baum and C.S. Lewis. A rather obscure children's book which I would definitely put in my top ten fantasy list is An Edge of the Forest by Agnes Smith. I guess it's borderline between "chapter book" and "young adult" as it was originally marketed for ages 11-14. I think it is by far the best "animal fantasy" book I read as a child. https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/2082201.An_Edge_of_the_Forest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 3 hours ago, Ran said: And there's a bit of reach, as well: "books that brought something new and innovative to the genre—books that inspired other fantasy writers as well as readers." How can a book published last month be an inspiration to other fantasy writers? What writer has said they're writing something inspired by having read Moon Witch, Spider King? In fairness, they said 'emphasised' rather than 'stuck strictly to' but that is the part where it's most blatantly marketing, since the section for it includes a link to an interview with Marlon James and a 5-book list by him. I'm kind of tempted to see what my own 50-book one-entry-per-author list would look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 I think most of the omissions are somewhat understandable, but no Pratchett just feels bizarre even within the context they seem to be working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 5 hours ago, DaveSumm said: A tie-in novel to the video game Myst is the tenth greatest fantasy novel ever written? Really? I mean, I haven’t read it, maybe it is. I remember when it came out and people were really taken aback by it and gave it great reviews, and it cropped up on "best ever lists" a couple of years later, but then disappeared for ages. But yes, it's another "Best Fantasy Books of the Decade" or "Best Books of the 21st Century" list, not "all time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Ormond said: I agree that this has recency bias and should be a "recommended" list rather than labeled a "best of all time" list. I would like to have seen Robin Hobb, John Crowley (LIttle, Big) and T. H. (The Once and Future King) on it, and perhaps R. A. MacAvoy, though I realize she may be more a matter of my personal taste than someone influential in the field. As someone who was really an Oz fanatic as a child, I really appreciated the list including L. Frank Baum. However, if they were going to included children's books (and the Oz books are really "chapter books" for kids 8-13 rather than "young adult" books for teens) I am sure there should be more included than just Baum and C.S. Lewis. A rather obscure children's book which I would definitely put in my top ten fantasy list is An Edge of the Forest by Agnes Smith. I guess it's borderline between "chapter book" and "young adult" as it was originally marketed for ages 11-14. I think it is by far the best "animal fantasy" book I read as a child. https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/2082201.An_Edge_of_the_Forest As a swede, if you're going to have children's books then I'd expect at least a nod to Jansson or Lindgren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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