Werthead Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Update on the China situation. Quote Asked about media reports that Russia was asking China for military help, a spokesperson for the Chinese embassy in Washington says Beijing is focused on keeping the war in Ukraine from "getting out of control". Reuters quoted embassy spokesperson Liu Pengyu as saying that "the situation in Ukraine is indeed disconcerting". "The high priority now is to prevent the tense situation escalating or even getting out of control," he said. Earlier on Sunday, the Financial Times and a number of other media outlets reported that US officials believe Russia has requested Chinese military supplies to help with the war effort, as well as economic support. When asked about the reports, the spokesperson said that he "never heard of that". Those reports note that Russia had been asking for Chinese support since the start of the conflict and China had been non-committal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broken one Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 I wonder that maybe Chinese army and super weapons are just garbage, another mythos which may fall before everyones eyes. And that the Chinese know this and will not do anything stupid. As for the russian marines at Odessa, Ive read that probably they spent too much time on flat bottom boats and after such long period of swinging human being can hardly stand on legs, let alone storming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Göteborgs-Posten has interviewed a Swedish volunteer for Ukraine who survived the attack on the training base outside Lviv. He was among the most experienced in his barracks (besides Swedish military experience, he volunteered with the Kurdish YPG against ISIS) when the attack happened. The day before he had noted it was planned that he and some others were going to be part of a special operations group sent to Kyiv, but the attack changed everything. He's now headed to Poland, shepherding about 15 Scandinavians who have had second thoughts (he notes that none of them had prior military training, suggesting they were some of the gung-ho guys I read about on the Sweden reddit who apparently just showed up on the border with Poland and were immediately accepted into the ranks without any qualifications.) He expected to take a couple of days to recover in Poland and then would decide whether he'd go back or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 31 minutes ago, broken one said: I wonder that maybe Chinese army and super weapons are just garbage, another mythos which may fall before everyones eyes. And that the Chinese know this and will not do anything stupid. I wouldn't bet on that. At least China has vastly, vastly more money to spend on equipment, logistics and technology. It is correct that China does have no recent battle experience, having not fought a major war since some its forces fought in Vietnam. It's navy has had some good experience fighting Somali pirates, but obviously that's not quite the same thing. I have doubts that China will be in love with the idea of giving Russia some of its more advanced weaponry, although some generals might be eager to test it against Ukrainian AA and AT systems to see how robust they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 I doubt they will deliver the goods. That entire war and the way it has played out is not in their national interest, so why upset trading partners in the west for Russia? Not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broken one Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 33 minutes ago, Ran said: Göteborgs-Posten has interviewed a Swedish volunteer for Ukraine who survived the attack on the training base outside Lviv. He was among the most experienced in his barracks (besides Swedish military experience, he volunteered with the Kurdish YPG against ISIS) when the attack happened. The day before he had noted it was planned that he and some others were going to be part of a special operations group sent to Kyiv, but the attack changed everything. He's now headed to Poland, shepherding about 15 Scandinavians who have had second thoughts (he notes that none of them had prior military training, suggesting they were some of the gung-ho guys I read about on the Sweden reddit who apparently just showed up on the border with Poland and were immediately accepted into the ranks without any qualifications.) He expected to take a couple of days to recover in Poland and then would decide whether he'd go back or not. The war tourists (i don't mean the veteran o.c.). Are there some general informations on losses? 24 minutes ago, Werthead said: I wouldn't bet on that. At least China has vastly, vastly more money to spend on equipment, logistics and technology. I would not either bet nor want It to get tested, just see the level of deception and frog - like self pumping of some regimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: I doubt they will deliver the goods. That entire war and the way it has played out is not in their national interest, so why upset trading partners in the west for Russia? Not worth it. I think China likes the idea of tweaking the nose of the West and making sure they don't get all things all their way, and certainly they like the idea of access to Russia's resources, but yes, Russia is very small fry compared to the EU and USA as trading partners. China might offer some minor assistance to Russia but I suspect it will be nominal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 I mean ultimately I dunno that China's motivation will be at all tilted by 'what if the West finds out our weapons are a bit less strong' because in any war involving China then, unless it's a complete preparatory disaster for them or their weapons are complete shit, neither of which I can really see happening coz while China might have systemic and corruption problems they are not the same as those in Russia, the main deciding factor is gonna be if they can transport and supply their army, something that is not gonna be proven either way by sending a few missiles or whatever to Russia now. But like others are saying it's probably more trouble than it's worth to other relations to actually do anything. And I suspect China are also playing a game of 'we shouldn't make plans based on pleasing a totalitarian leader who might not be around that much longer and whose successor's attitudes will be unpredictable'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruff one Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Ukraine On Fire 2016 Documentary by Oliver Stone. For some reason I'm not able to link to this, but currently on Youtube after being banned for awhile. I think it sheds some light on the current situation. It is graphic, tries to explain the nazi connections to Ukraine, the inability for different regions to get together. Interesting how the U.S. state department had it's fingers in the mess. It's about 90 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 16 minutes ago, gruff one said: Ukraine On Fire 2016 Documentary by Oliver Stone. For some reason I'm not able to link to this, but currently on Youtube after being banned for awhile. I think it sheds some light on the current situation. It is graphic, tries to explain the nazi connections to Ukraine, the inability for different regions to get together. Interesting how the U.S. state department had it's fingers in the mess. It's about 90 minutes. Isn't that just pro-Russia propaganda directly featuring Putin himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3CityApache Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, polishgenius said: Isn't that just pro-Russia propaganda directly featuring Putin himself? Not sure it's the same one, but I know Stone made a documentary featuring Putin, which was even broadcasted by Russian public TV, so it must have been propaganda level master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 13, 2022 Author Share Posted March 13, 2022 With the sound on for maximum impact. This guy seems genuinely upset at the utter lack of competence in the people trying to kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Oliver Stone is from the far-left wing school of "anyone that opposes America, for whatever reason, is right to do so and is the good guy in the story, because AMERICA=BAD". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Ah, so that's why the American right thinks everyone to the left of John McCain is unAmerican, and there was even a question mark over John McCain towards the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 13 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said: Oliver Stone is from the far-left wing school of "anyone that opposes America, for whatever reason, is right to do so and is the good guy in the story, because AMERICA=BAD". This is a tired meme at this point but it should be noted guys like this do believe in American exceptionalism. 9 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said: Ah, so that's why the American right thinks everyone to the left of John McCain is unAmerican, and there was even a question mark over John McCain towards the end. Eh, I’ve seen plenty mainstream American right-wing figures laud Putin and frame America as the unheeded aggressor. Putin is an ally in their culture wars and many would prefer a more isolationist America—which would serve Russia and China’s geo-political interests. Whether America retreats inward due to progressivism or rabid nationalism really wouldn’t matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruff one Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 The part that really caught my attention was the U.S. state department's involvement with the Orange Revolution. I do hope some would watch and would clear up a misrepresentation if one was presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 1 minute ago, gruff one said: The part that really caught my attention was the U.S. state department's involvement with the Orange Revolution What exactly do you think the state department did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, gruff one said: The part that really caught my attention was the U.S. state department's involvement with the Orange Revolution. I do hope some would watch and would clear up a misrepresentation if one was presented. You don't bother to expound on it at all. No thanks. Why would anyone be convinced to watch it let alone give it any credence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gruff one Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, Week said: You don't bother to expound on it at all. No thanks. Why would anyone be convinced to watch it let alone give it any credence? I'm not trying to convince anyone. It's information presented. If someone watches it and it's garbage, tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 1 minute ago, gruff one said: I'm not trying to convince anyone. It's information presented. If someone watches it and it's garbage, tell me. Can you give any specific information from that shows it’s not garbage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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