Jump to content

Why did Melisandre believe that Stannis is the reborn Azor Ahai?


Lady Em

Recommended Posts

I think what we know is that the legend said that Azor Ahai will be reborn amidst smoke and salt, awake dragons from stone and have a burning sword named lightbringer which could eventually mean that he will be reborn on Dragonstone but how was Melisandre so certain that Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai? Why didn't she think that for example Daenerys could be Azor Ahai?

I'd love to hear some opinions about this! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've pondered over this many times. I think possibly she understood the info given her enough to get to the right place but misinterpreted it to mean Stan was her man. Maybe AA led her to Stannis to get her to the position she is in now; at the wall with Jon. Just so happens Jon is in need of being reborn ATM. Anyway that's what I think. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Lady Em said:

I think what we know is that the legend said that Azor Ahai will be reborn amidst smoke and salt, awake dragons from stone and have a burning sword named lightbringer which could eventually mean that he will be reborn on Dragonstone but how was Melisandre so certain that Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai? Why didn't she think that for example Daenerys could be Azor Ahai?

I'd love to hear some opinions about this! :)

I think Nissa Nissa is a big part of the prophecy as well, which may be why Melisandre pushed Stannis to murder his beloved brother Renly or their nephew Edric. 

Its like lightbringer, Mel is pushing the narrative onto Stannis, by checking every box. (Unfortunately the boxes need to be colored in, so this all becomes void... Maybe)

I, like Mel, think Stannis is AA. I, like Mel, can check boxes too. But, Daenerys right? Lightbringer is Drogon, Nissa is Drogo. Check and checkmate. Well what about the Imp? (Other characters too, some baddies in the list also, I like Vic being AA lol)

Idk why Mel is so certain it's Stannis but she definitely is. Tyrion noted the priests who are in Danys camp won't respond well to an Aegon and who knows what the Brotherhood makes of their Lady Stoneheart? It's interesting that what's so clear to me, there's multiple azor ahais, multiple heroes who will collectively save the world from armageddon, is anything but clear to priests like Melisandre

2 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I've pondered over this many times. I think possibly she understood the info given her enough to get to the right place but misinterpreted it to mean Stan was her man. Maybe AA led her to Stannis to get her to the position she is in now; at the wall with Jon. Just so happens Jon is in need of being reborn ATM. Anyway that's what I think. 

For sure it could even be that, bread crumbs to the real deal.

 

:D Was good? How've you been?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I always thought she was grooming someone who could be her champion of fire and light and bring the faith to Westeros or just projecting what she wanted to believe onto him.

Yeah, this could be true, I've also thought about the theory that she might've just misinterpreted it all!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

I've pondered over this many times. I think possibly she understood the info given her enough to get to the right place but misinterpreted it to mean Stan was her man. Maybe AA led her to Stannis to get her to the position she is in now; at the wall with Jon. Just so happens Jon is in need of being reborn ATM. Anyway that's what I think. 

Ooh yes, that's a really interesting thought and definitely makes sense! I've actually never thought about that!  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

irrc she saw a vision of Stannis wielding Lightbringer against the dark (reported by Stannis to Davos) - that's pretty specific, that would be reason enough to think this is the one.

Also, Stannis appears to be sending authentic visions to Stannis himself (the Fist, the burning crown). So Rhllor (whoever) is interested in Stannis, personally, which is odd, because he (or whoever) hasn't really contacted Dany. (She saw a red finger touching the eggs once, I think.)

Mel isn't dumb, at all, really - she does good stuff with what she's given. She may be making a huge mistake by trusting Rhllor is sane however. And benevolent. :dunno:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

I think Nissa Nissa is a big part of the prophecy as well, which may be why Melisandre pushed Stannis to murder his beloved brother Renly or their nephew Edric. 

Its like lightbringer, Mel is pushing the narrative onto Stannis, by checking every box. (Unfortunately the boxes need to be colored in, so this all becomes void... Maybe)

I, like Mel, think Stannis is AA. I, like Mel, can check boxes too. But, Daenerys right? Lightbringer is Drogon, Nissa is Drogon. Check and checkmate. Well what about the Imp? (Other characters too, some baddies in the list also, I like Vic being AA lol)

Idk why Mel is so certain it's Stannis but she definitely is. Tyrion noted the priests who are in Danys camp won't respond well to an Aegon and who knows what the Brotherhood makes of their Lady Stoneheart? It's interesting that what's so clear to me, there's multiple azor ahais, multiple heroes who will collectively save the world from armageddon, is anything but clear to priests like Melisandre

For sure it could even be that, bread crumbs to the real deal.

 

:D Was good? How've you been?

 

You've definitely got a point, especially when it comes to Nissa Nissa, I honestly didnt think about the possible parallels that Stannis had when he murdered Renly and Edric! And your theory about that there are multiple Azor Ahais also sounds really interesting!

If you think about it, it also sounds really poetical somehow, saying that there are multiple heroes/Azor Ahais who can win against the darkness because that would lead you to the thought of something like "only together we can win against our enemy" which sounds really beautiful to me!

Oops I'm drifting apart here rn:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

irrc she saw a vision of Stannis wielding Lightbringer against the dark (reported by Stannis to Davos) - that's pretty specific, that would be reason enough to think this is the one.

Also, Stannis appears to be sending authentic visions to Stannis himself (the Fist, the burning crown). So Rhllor (whoever) is interested in Stannis, personally, which is odd, because he (or whoever) hasn't really contacted Dany. (She saw a red finger touching the eggs once, I think.)

Mel isn't dumb, at all, really - she does good stuff with what she's given. She may be making a huge mistake by trusting Rhllor is sane however. And benevolent. :dunno:

Could also be true, who knows!

But I definitely agree with you, Melisandre is a really interesting character and definitely not dumb.

And what Lyanna <3Rhaegar already said

2 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

I've pondered over this many times. I think possibly she understood the info given her enough to get to the right place but misinterpreted it to mean Stan was her man. Maybe AA led her to Stannis to get her to the position she is in now; at the wall with Jon. Just so happens Jon is in need of being reborn ATM. Anyway that's what I think. 

Maybe all of this only led her to her true purpose in the end and Stannis was just a part of her journey!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Lady Em said:

I think what we know is that the legend said that Azor Ahai will be reborn amidst smoke and salt, awake dragons from stone and have a burning sword named lightbringer which could eventually mean that he will be reborn on Dragonstone but how was Melisandre so certain that Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai? Why didn't she think that for example Daenerys could be Azor Ahai?

I'd love to hear some opinions about this! :)

Mellisandre, just like Rhaegar, failed to see the truth. They suffer from tunnel vision and were stuck in their belief that Azor Ahai has to be a man. Daenerys is Azor Ahai. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lady Em said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Lady Em said:

You've definitely got a point, especially when it comes to Nissa Nissa, I honestly didnt think about the possible parallels that Stannis had when he murdered Renly and Edric! 

Davos notes the physical toll that Stannis took when he murdered Renly, obviously this has more to do with the shadow baby, but still, Stannis will go to the grave thinking of his brothers peach. Stannis changed, as would anyone who kills their love. More so then Dany, who didn't really murder Drogo as much as pull a plug but not as much as Tyrion who's mind has truly drifted since he murdered Shae.

Edric is scary. He refuses to say his nephews name, perhaps to nullify his love but that's doubtful it worked. Im worried about Shireen, if Renly wasn't the checkbox like lightbringer then there's only one person who Stannis can Nissa. 

Nissa is scary. I mean, I liked Drogo and Shae and them, but... I love Arya and GRRM may truly break heart if Jon has to murder his sister to save the world

1 hour ago, Lady Em said:

And your theory about that there are multiple Azor Ahais also sounds really interesting!

If you think about it, it also sounds really poetical somehow, saying that there are multiple heroes/Azor Ahais who can win against the darkness because that would lead you to the thought of something like "only together we can win against our enemy" which sounds really beautiful to me!

Me too!

Plus I've never been a fan of waiting for Superman to save the day

Quote

Mhysa, they called her. Someone told him that meant Mother. Soon the silver queen would come forth from her city, smash the Yunkai'i, and break their chains, they whispered to one another.

And then she'll bake us all a lemon pie and kiss our widdle wounds and make them better, the dwarf thought. He had no faith in royal rescues. If need be, he would see to their deliverance himself.

And I love the characters so much! From the queen across the sea to the desperate blue eyed king, with the sullen lc bastard, the grotesque imp, the silly lady knight, the suicidal reek and even a few monsters like Victarion.

Incredibly diverse characters who have different dreams and motives often conflictive, collectively make up, well, humanity. The most beautiful weapon to fight armageddon.

1 hour ago, Lady Em said:

Oops I'm drifting apart here rn:D

Yea that'll happen here lol.

I used to play around with the title, what song? And if there's a song then are the Starks, Lannisters, Greyjoys, Dany, Stannis, Brienne etc, the singers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Melisandre said straight up that she saw it in the flames twice, once to Davos in ASoS and once to Jon in ADwD. 

The old maester looked at Stannis and saw only a man. You see a king. You are both wrong. He is the Lord's chosen, the warrior of fire. I have seen him leading the fight against the dark, I have seen it in the flames. The flames do not lie, else you would not be here. It is written in prophecy as well. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. The bleeding star has come and gone, and Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai reborn!" (Davos III, ASoS)

Then she regurgitates almost the exact same thing to Jon when he asks her if she would know if Stannis was dead.

"He is not dead. Stannis is the Lord's chsen one, destined to lead the fight against the dark. I have seen it in the flames, read of it in ancient prophecy. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. Dragonstone is a place of smoke and salt." (Jon X, ADwD)

Jon actually pushes back against this idea. He replies that Stannis was the Lord of Dragonstone and that he was born at Storm's End.

This whole situation with Melisandre is exactly like Renly's ghost. She saw armored Renly in the flames at the Battle of the Blackwater taking Stannis in the rear and eliminated him, but that vision still came to pass because Garlan Tyrell was posing as Renly's ghost. 

Melisandre outfitted Stannis with "Lightbringer" to fit whatever vision she saw in the flames and I think that the sword was an integral part of the visioon she had. She staged a whole ceremony on Dragonstone in order to sell her candidate for AA. But I think that Stannis was only meant to lead Melisandre to Jon Snow. She asks about Azor Ahai and the flames show her Jon Snow and she the whole reason she knows who Jon Snow is is because she came to the Wall with Stannis. 

To your question about Dany, Melisandre has likely not seen her in the flames. She sees the dragons in the flames but not their mother. Plus Moqorro should be by Dany's side whenever she returns to Meereen. And we really can't forget about that other red priest, Thoros of Myr, who has been riding with the BwB, and is really good at reading the flames. I think he's going to end up with a third person.

I think that the flames were leading Melisandre to Jon because she is going instrumental to his rebirth. GRRM gave us a timeline for that in Jon XIII.

"A grey girl on a dying horse. Daggers in the dark. A promised prince, born in smoke and salt. It seems to me that you make nothing but mistakes, my lady. Where is Stannis? What of Rattleshirt and his spearwives? Where is my sister?" (Jon XIII, ADwD)

The girl on the dying horse has come and gone. The daggers in the dark happen at the very end of Jon's final chapter, the promised prince born in smoke and salt will be in TWoW.

Obviously, that's not to say that Stannis won't have a role in all of this. But Melisandre tries very hard to make her visions work in the way that she interprets them, which I think will end up causing a lot of trouble for everyone involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/19/2022 at 11:18 AM, Lady Em said:

I think what we know is that the legend said that Azor Ahai will be reborn amidst smoke and salt, awake dragons from stone and have a burning sword named lightbringer which could eventually mean that he will be reborn on Dragonstone but how was Melisandre so certain that Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai? Why didn't she think that for example Daenerys could be Azor Ahai?

I'd love to hear some opinions about this! :)

She has not met Dany yet.  She will need to rethink her life after she meets Dany.  The dragons proved Dany's identity as the real Azor Ahai. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Melisandre said straight up that she saw it in the flames twice, once to Davos in ASoS and once to Jon in ADwD. 

The old maester looked at Stannis and saw only a man. You see a king. You are both wrong. He is the Lord's chosen, the warrior of fire. I have seen him leading the fight against the dark, I have seen it in the flames. The flames do not lie, else you would not be here. It is written in prophecy as well. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. The bleeding star has come and gone, and Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai reborn!" (Davos III, ASoS)

Then she regurgitates almost the exact same thing to Jon when he asks her if she would know if Stannis was dead.

"He is not dead. Stannis is the Lord's chsen one, destined to lead the fight against the dark. I have seen it in the flames, read of it in ancient prophecy. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. Dragonstone is a place of smoke and salt." (Jon X, ADwD)

Jon actually pushes back against this idea. He replies that Stannis was the Lord of Dragonstone and that he was born at Storm's End.

This whole situation with Melisandre is exactly like Renly's ghost. She saw armored Renly in the flames at the Battle of the Blackwater taking Stannis in the rear and eliminated him, but that vision still came to pass because Garlan Tyrell was posing as Renly's ghost. 

Melisandre outfitted Stannis with "Lightbringer" to fit whatever vision she saw in the flames and I think that the sword was an integral part of the visioon she had. She staged a whole ceremony on Dragonstone in order to sell her candidate for AA. But I think that Stannis was only meant to lead Melisandre to Jon Snow. She asks about Azor Ahai and the flames show her Jon Snow and she the whole reason she knows who Jon Snow is is because she came to the Wall with Stannis. 

To your question about Dany, Melisandre has likely not seen her in the flames. She sees the dragons in the flames but not their mother. Plus Moqorro should be by Dany's side whenever she returns to Meereen. And we really can't forget about that other red priest, Thoros of Myr, who has been riding with the BwB, and is really good at reading the flames. I think he's going to end up with a third person.

I think that the flames were leading Melisandre to Jon because she is going instrumental to his rebirth. GRRM gave us a timeline for that in Jon XIII.

"A grey girl on a dying horse. Daggers in the dark. A promised prince, born in smoke and salt. It seems to me that you make nothing but mistakes, my lady. Where is Stannis? What of Rattleshirt and his spearwives? Where is my sister?" (Jon XIII, ADwD)

The girl on the dying horse has come and gone. The daggers in the dark happen at the very end of Jon's final chapter, the promised prince born in smoke and salt will be in TWoW.

Obviously, that's not to say that Stannis won't have a role in all of this. But Melisandre tries very hard to make her visions work in the way that she interprets them, which I think will end up causing a lot of trouble for everyone involved.

Pretty much my thoughts but I'm curious to know what exactly she saw.  If the flames truly do not lie then they could not have shown Stan leading the fight against the long night with lightbringer because we know he is not AA reborn. Maybe they showed someone doing this & another vision of Stannis or something that led her to him, making her interpret this as Stan being the one. I agree Stannis was her means to get to Jon. 

 

Thoros is interesting. I don't recall him reading anything in the flames but he is certainly good at bringing someone back to life. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I'm actually more interested in whether he believes her or not. Why didn't he just send her away?

I think maybe he hoped to believe but isn't totally sold. Because it's a means to what he needs though, he follows her. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...