Why do people keep assuming that Stannis will be the big villain of the story?

[chrisdaw]

4 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I can't help but wonder if some of it comes down to likability as a character in the eyes of the fans as a whole. 

What's the text telling you?

Quote

Burning dead children had ceased to trouble Jon Snow; live ones were another matter. Two kings to wake the dragon. The father first and then the son, so both die kings. The words had been murmured by one of the queen's men as Maester Aemon had cleaned his wounds. Jon had tried to dismiss them as his fever talking. Aemon had demurred. "There is power in a king's blood," the old maester had warned, "and better men than Stannis have done worse things than this." The king can be harsh and unforgiving, aye, but a babe still on the breast? Only a monster would give a living child to the flames.

Quote

Lord Stannis in particular. His claim is the true one, he is known for his prowess as a battle commander, and he is utterly without mercy. There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man.

This is the more overt stuff, of which there is enough, but the nitty gritty foreshadowing of Stannis to the Others seems to go on forever.

Quote

Catelyn could still hear Stannis saying that Robb's turn too would come in time. It was like a cold breath on the back of her neck.

 

[Lord Lannister]

13 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

This is the more overt stuff, of which there is enough, but the nitty gritty foreshadowing of Stannis to the Others seems to go on forever.

Dany has committed her share of atrocities, including burning people alive. She typically gets a pass. Again, I think that stems to likability as a character.

[three-eyed monkey]

Stannis is an antihero. Antiheroes are characters that can do bad things but somehow many readers still like them. I include myself in this, as I'm definitely a big fan of the character.

An important aspect of the antihero's character is called the "glimpse of humanity." In Stannis' case this is his love for Shireen. This helps readers identify with the character. There are several other techniques employed to make Stannis more likeable, such as his sense of humor, the begrudging respect many of the other players have for him, the injustices he suffered, and the fact that he is frequently the underdog, all of which provide the counter-balance that allows us to forgive his dark deeds.

Another important aspect of an antihero's character is that they have important choices to make; choices that will lead to either the character's salvation or destruction. They can become a hero or a villain, essentially. These choices are set-up in the character's arc. In Stannis' case there are two important choices he must make to resolve his arc. If Stannis chooses correctly on both counts he will find salvation and become a true king. If he chooses incorrectly either time, then he will meet his destruction as a false king.

The first choice is, win the throne or save the kingdom? A true king puts his duty, defending the realm, before his rights, the Iron Throne. A true king chooses to save the realm in such a position.

Stannis must first be in a position to make that choice. Therefore, Stannis must win the North and return to some power or else the point and his arc is moot. Once he does this, thanks to Davos and Rickon, he must decide where he goes next. North to the Wall to defend the realm from the Others or south to King's Landing to win the Iron Throne? I think he will choose south and march to win the throne.

Stannis says he came north to save the realm from the wildlings, marking him as the true king by comparison to all the other pretenders who did not respond to Castle Black's request for assistance. However, this is not entirely true. Stannis came north because it was his only way back into the war for the throne after his defeat at the Blackwater. Stannis will march for the throne, but he will justify his choice by saying that the best way to defend the realm is to unite the realm under the true king, a position for which a logical case can be made and one that preserves his image as the true king. Stannis fans will adopt their king's position, no doubt.

The first choice will set him on the path towards his second choice. It will also put him on a collision course with Dany, who is also destined for King's Landing and the throne, and has false kings to slay as signposted in the HotU. Dany also has dragons, and Stannis knows what a military advantage that is. To fight dragons he will need a dragon of his own. This is where the question of sacrifice comes into it. Does he give his only cow to R'hllor to wake dragons from stone? It's the only way he can win the throne, and he needs to win the throne to save the kingdom. Would he give a single child to the flames to save a million from darkness? Yes he will, and in doing so he will prove that he is a false king, because the only true sacrifice is self-sacrifice. Mel's cow logic is flawed. The only life anyone owns is their own. Sacrificing the life of another is not a true sacrifice, it's just barbarism.

So the sacrifice of Shireen will ultimately fail. And it will also remove the "glimpse of humanity" in Stannis, which was his love for his daughter, transforming him from antihero to villain. After that, he'll meet his destruction in dragonfire thanks to Dany, something he has already foreseen in the flames, a king with a burning crown.

 

 

[BalerionTheCat]

Stannis made bad choices. Did a lot of harm (and some goods) and will again. Probably will pay it with his life.

But is not a big villain like Euron, the Blood Mages and those dealing with Shadows. He is an ordinary man with a tragic story.

[frenin]

6 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Dany has committed her share of atrocities, including burning people alive. She typically gets a pass. Again, I think that stems to likability as a character.

Slavers alive, not his daughter or tried to do the same with his nephew. Besides Dany is also bound t9o be evil so...

 

@three-eyed monkey

 

Quote

 In Stannis' case this is his love for Shireen.

Citation needed. People tend to rant a lot about shpw Stannis but then turn around and act like Stannis cared for his daughter beyond her being the continuation of his line.

 

 

 

 

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

On 4/2/2022 at 4:13 PM, Lord Lannister said:

I can't help but wonder if some of it comes down to likability as a character in the eyes of the fans as a whole. 

I don't dislike Stannis.  But he is another Roose and Tywin.  Change shoes and he does the same thing they have done. 

[James Arryn]

On 3/30/2022 at 7:16 PM, Finley McLeod said:

GM is not one to create one-sided evil characters.  Stannis has done and will further do evil things.  He is not yet a villain but he could be.  It is how one looks at it and where one stands.  He is a villain to Rattleshirt.  The soldiers he roasted would see him as a villain.  If they have an afterlife.  Shireen only sees her father.  Melisandre sees a hero. 

Pretty much all of Westeros would see him as a villain if they knew about the shadow baby assassinations, especially of his brother. One of two Westerosi who does know is his most loyal follower, and even his view of Stannis was shaken and he deflected his revulsion onto Melissandre as a coping mechanism. The other person we witness doing the same thing was Cressen.

The other Westetosi who knows is Brienne. 

[James Arryn]

10 hours ago, three-eyed monkey said:

Stannis is an antihero. Antiheroes are characters that can do bad things but somehow many readers still like them. I include myself in this, as I'm definitely a big fan of the character.

An important aspect of the antihero's character is called the "glimpse of humanity." In Stannis' case this is his love for Shireen. This helps readers identify with the character. There are several other techniques employed to make Stannis more likeable, such as his sense of humor, the begrudging respect many of the other players have for him, the injustices he suffered, and the fact that he is frequently the underdog, all of which provide the counter-balance that allows us to forgive his dark deeds.

Another important aspect of an antihero's character is that they have important choices to make; choices that will lead to either the character's salvation or destruction. They can become a hero or a villain, essentially. These choices are set-up in the character's arc. In Stannis' case there are two important choices he must make to resolve his arc. If Stannis chooses correctly on both counts he will find salvation and become a true king. If he chooses incorrectly either time, then he will meet his destruction as a false king.

The first choice is, win the throne or save the kingdom? A true king puts his duty, defending the realm, before his rights, the Iron Throne. A true king chooses to save the realm in such a position.

Stannis must first be in a position to make that choice. Therefore, Stannis must win the North and return to some power or else the point and his arc is moot. Once he does this, thanks to Davos and Rickon, he must decide where he goes next. North to the Wall to defend the realm from the Others or south to King's Landing to win the Iron Throne? I think he will choose south and march to win the throne.

Stannis says he came north to save the realm from the wildlings, marking him as the true king by comparison to all the other pretenders who did not respond to Castle Black's request for assistance. However, this is not entirely true. Stannis came north because it was his only way back into the war for the throne after his defeat at the Blackwater. Stannis will march for the throne, but he will justify his choice by saying that the best way to defend the realm is to unite the realm under the true king, a position for which a logical case can be made and one that preserves his image as the true king. Stannis fans will adopt their king's position, no doubt.

The first choice will set him on the path towards his second choice. It will also put him on a collision course with Dany, who is also destined for King's Landing and the throne, and has false kings to slay as signposted in the HotU. Dany also has dragons, and Stannis knows what a military advantage that is. To fight dragons he will need a dragon of his own. This is where the question of sacrifice comes into it. Does he give his only cow to R'hllor to wake dragons from stone? It's the only way he can win the throne, and he needs to win the throne to save the kingdom. Would he give a single child to the flames to save a million from darkness? Yes he will, and in doing so he will prove that he is a false king, because the only true sacrifice is self-sacrifice. Mel's cow logic is flawed. The only life anyone owns is their own. Sacrificing the life of another is not a true sacrifice, it's just barbarism.

So the sacrifice of Shireen will ultimately fail. And it will also remove the "glimpse of humanity" in Stannis, which was his love for his daughter, transforming him from antihero to villain. After that, he'll meet his destruction in dragonfire thanks to Dany, something he has already foreseen in the flames, a king with a burning crown.

 

 

Stannis shows love for Shireen in the show; in the books he…does he ever even speak to her that we see? He upholds her claim as his heir, but there are many reasons for him to do that consistent with his character that have nothing to do with love. 
 

The only person we see Stannis love in the books is Stannis, and even there it’s a strained relationship.

[chrisdaw]

21 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Dany has committed her share of atrocities, including burning people alive. She typically gets a pass. Again, I think that stems to likability as a character.

I gave you quotes of how the text is framing Stannis. Do you have an example of the text framing Dany as something comparable to the most terrifying creature on earth?

[The Young Maester]

4 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

I gave you quotes of how the text is framing Stannis. Do you have an example of the text framing Dany as something comparable to the most terrifying creature on earth?

Wouldnt that make it too obvious. We have all these texts saying  how stannis has little mercy or that he is a hard man. A reader might see stannis become something evil but George might go nah he just gonna stay the same and die clenching his teeth.

I doubt stannis will be a big player by end of winds. 

[three-eyed monkey]

22 hours ago, frenin said:

Citation needed. People tend to rant a lot about shpw Stannis but then turn around and act like Stannis cared for his daughter beyond her being the continuation of his line.

I'm talking about book Stannis. There are no instances of Stannis openly declaring his love for Shireen, because that would be out of character. However, there are several places where it's clear in the subtext. For example, when Davos is trying to convince Stannis not to burn Edric, he plays the Shireen card, obviously knowing Stannis loves his daughter and hoping it might sway the king.

Quote

 

Davos persisted. "Your daughter takes her lessons with him, and plays with him every day in Aegon's Garden."

"I know that."

"Her heart would break if anything ill should—"

"I know that as well."

 

Or when Stannis grows angry at the thought of Shireen being wed to the Lannisters by Lord Florent.

Quote

 

"Sire, Lord Florent meant no treason."

"Do smugglers have another name for it? I made him Hand, and he would have sold my rights for a bowl of pease porridge. He would even have given them Shireen. Mine only child, he would have wed to a bastard born of incest." The king's voice was thick with anger.

 

Stannis is no doubt angry about the treason, but why bring Shireen into it if he means nothing to him? Note that says "He would have given them Shireen", not "given them my heir" or "given them mine only child." While Stannis undoubtedly sees Shireen as the continuation of his line, and as his heir she does have a political value, that does not mean he does not love her too. I think he does love Shireen, but it's just not as overt as it is in the show.

Also, if we look ahead. Stannis draws his misguided understanding of true sacrifice from Mel and the Azor Ahai prophecy. Azor Ahai had to sacrifice his beloved wife, Nissa Nissa, whom he loved more than anything. Stannis believes sacrifice is never easy, or it is no true sacrifice. If he doesn't truly love Shireen, then he will not reach for her when the time comes for him to make his most desperate sacrifice.

I should add that it was speculated on these boards that Stannis would sacrifice Shireen to the flames before it appeared on the show. That was book-based speculation then, and it still is.

17 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Stannis shows love for Shireen in the show; in the books he…does he ever even speak to her that we see? He upholds her claim as his heir, but there are many reasons for him to do that consistent with his character that have nothing to do with love. 

Screenwriters have to hammer the point home more bluntly. Remember, GRRM was still consulting on the show at the time that Stannis' character was being established. The climax to Stannis' arc is what is being set-up there. It's not as powerful if he doesn't love Shireen. This is the point, Stannis' desire for the throne is so powerful that it even overcomes the love for his daughter. Unfortunately, D&D completely missed the point and purpose of Stannis' arc.

18 hours ago, James Arryn said:

The only person we see Stannis love in the books is Stannis, and even there it’s a strained relationship.

Indeed, it is a strained relationship. Stannis is struggling with his shadow, in a very Jungian way. Stannis' shadow represents his deepest desire, which is the Iron Throne. The shadow is taking over, growing stronger in the Light of R'hllor. When he burns Shireen, his glimpse of humanity, his shadow will have consumed him entirely.

[frenin]

41 minutes ago, three-eyed monkey said:

I'm talking about book Stannis. There are no instances of Stannis openly declaring his love for Shireen, because that would be out of character. However, there are several places where it's clear in the subtext. For example, when Davos is trying to convince Stannis not to burn Edric, he plays the Shireen card, obviously knowing Stannis loves his daughter and hoping it might sway the king.

You're reading way too much into things, Stannis not wanting to upset his daughter=/ Stannis actually loving his daughter. By that same metric, Robert was in love of Cersei since he went out of his way to appease her so she let him alone. Or that Tywin loved Tyrion because he went to war because he was kidnapped.

What we do know about his relationship with his daughter is that she keeps her as far away as him as possible and he never interacts with her. 

 

44 minutes ago, three-eyed monkey said:

Stannis is no doubt angry about the treason, but why bring Shireen into it if he means nothing to him? Note that says "He would have given them Shireen", not "given them my heir" or "given them mine only child." While Stannis undoubtedly sees Shireen as the continuation of his line, and as his heir she does have a political value, that does not mean he does not love her too. I think he does love Shireen, but it's just not as overt as it is in the show.

He brings Shireen up because marrying his only child to a bastard born of incest is an insult to him.

 

46 minutes ago, three-eyed monkey said:

If he doesn't truly love Shireen, then he will not reach for her when the time comes for him to make his most desperate sacrifice.

Stannis certainly doesn't love Edric and even there he struggled to kill him, Shireen is Stannis only heir, killing her is literally signalling how desperate things are.

 

48 minutes ago, three-eyed monkey said:

I should add that it was speculated on these boards that Stannis would sacrifice Shireen to the flames before it appeared on the show. That was book-based speculation then, and it still is.

 

No one in the books ever attempt to claim Stannis loves his daughter, in fact Stannis's surrogate father states that he keeps her daughter as far away as him as possible leaving her in Dragonstone with her mother instead of taking her to King's Landing with him. Stannis has never interacted with his daughter in the books, it's not an odd choice. None of the characters around him ever say that Stannis loves his daughter, and no, that wouldn't be out of character, Stannis claim to love both of his brothers too.

 

[chrisdaw]

5 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

Wouldnt that make it too obvious.

No, look at this topic.

[Elegant Woes]

I wouldn’t say he’s will be the big bad villain. Stannis will be a villainous individual. It has been confirmed that he will burn Shireen. Burning people in general is already bad, but a child, and your own child at that? Now that is a special kind of evil. 

[sifth]

I think part of it has to do with how things went down on the tv show and another part is the long gap between ADWD and now. All sorts of crazy fan theories are coming about. Maester Aemon telling Sam and Jon, that Stannis sword is a fake is part of it I'm sure.

[three-eyed monkey]

16 hours ago, frenin said:

You're reading way too much into things, Stannis not wanting to upset his daughter=/ Stannis actually loving his daughter. By that same metric, Robert was in love of Cersei since he went out of his way to appease her so she let him alone. Or that Tywin loved Tyrion because he went to war because he was kidnapped.

What we do know about his relationship with his daughter is that she keeps her as far away as him as possible and he never interacts with her. 

I'm not saying Stannis is a good father, just that he does actually care for his daughter. He certainly does not treat her the way Tywin treats Tyrion. It may not be a deep love, or highly visible, but then it is only a glimpse of humanity. Is there another character Stannis does not want to upset? Is there a character Stannis loves more? (besides himself, which as I said above is central to his conflict.) It may be a pale complexion of what a father's love for his daughter should be, but still, Shireen is the last shred of Stannis' humanity.

Davos knows this, which is why he uses Shireen to appeal to Stannis' humanity. And that makes perfect sense given that Davos is the good angel on the king's shoulder, trying to keep him attached to his humanity and counteract the influence of Mel.

16 hours ago, frenin said:

He brings Shireen up because marrying his only child to a bastard born of incest is an insult to him.

I agree that's an insult to him, and he's not happy about Lord Florent's treason, but I think he cares about Shireen too.

16 hours ago, frenin said:

Stannis certainly doesn't love Edric and even there he struggled to kill him, Shireen is Stannis only heir, killing her is literally signalling how desperate things are.

Again, I agree. As I said, she is the last shred of Stannis' humanity. And when things get desperate, Stannis will sacrifice what he cares about most in his misguided attempt to get what he wants, and that will be Shireen. Sacrifice is never easy or it is no true sacrifice, that is what Stannis believes, drawn from Mel's incorrect interpretation of the Azor Ahai prophecy. Stannis will burn Shireen because he loves her. If Stannis doesn't care about her, then it won't be a true sacrifice, according to what he and Mel believe about sacrifice.

16 hours ago, frenin said:

No one in the books ever attempt to claim Stannis loves his daughter, in fact Stannis's surrogate father states that he keeps her daughter as far away as him as possible leaving her in Dragonstone with her mother instead of taking her to King's Landing with him. Stannis has never interacted with his daughter in the books, it's not an odd choice. None of the characters around him ever say that Stannis loves his daughter, and no, that wouldn't be out of character, Stannis claim to love both of his brothers too.

No one in the books ever attempts to claim Stannis does not love his daughter. Stannis might not be a good father in terms of spending time with his daughter, but many houses send their children away as wards and that does not mean those parents do not love their children. Stannis is clearly focused on political and military matters, and he does not see that as the realm of children or indeed women. More like he left Selyse at home and thought Shireen was better off with her mother than in a vipers nest like King's Landing.

Stannis says he loved his brothers now that they are dead. Do you think he said it to them when they were alive? Do you think he would expose a vulnerability like that if they were still around to exploit it? Stannis hides his vulnerability, but Davos knows him well and knows what card to play when trying to persuade his king.

The public perception is that Stannis and Robert had no love for each other, yet as you say, Stannis now admits that he loved his brother. So Stannis is very capable of loving Shireen in a way that is hard to perceive on the surface but is present in the subtext.

 

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 3/30/2022 at 7:01 PM, Jon-Snow said:

Could you elaborate more? Interesting...

Jon betrayed Westeros. Arya joined a cult of homicidal people. Bran is getting darker because he so badly wants to walk. He will be morally compromised because of his disability and his desire to be a whole man.  

[James Arryn]

4 hours ago, three-eyed monkey said:

[quote]I'm not saying Stannis is a good father, just that he does actually care for his daughter. He certainly does not treat her the way Tywin treats Tyrion. [/quote] 

That’s not comparing indifference to indifference or love, though. That’s comparing open hatred to indifference or love. 
 

[quote]It may not be a deep love, or highly visible, but then it is only a glimpse of humanity. Is there another character Stannis does not want to upset? Is there a character Stannis loves more? (besides himself, which as I said above is central to his conflict.) It may be a pale complexion of what a father's love for his daughter should be, but still, Shireen is the last shred of Stannis' humanity.

Davos knows this, which is why he uses Shireen to appeal to Stannis' humanity. And that makes perfect sense given that Davos is the good angel on the king's shoulder, trying to keep him attached to his humanity and counteract the influence of Mel.[/quote]
 

It doesn’t work, though. I’m not saying it’s made explicit that he does not care for her, but it is never made explicit that he does in spite of several opportunities. 
 

[quote]I agree that's an insult to him, and he's not happy about Lord Florent's treason, but I think he cares about Shireen too.[/quote]
 

There’s nothing to show that’s true or untrue. I like your idea about the value of sacrifice, but I don’t think we ever see anything to suggest that he loves Shireen and you’d think it would be made explicit if it’s being set up as his great sacrifice. It’s not hard to have him talk about her with some affection once or twice, it wouldn’t contravene his character because she is his child. Tywin clearly does care for Jaime, Balon for Asha, even Roose speaks with more evident affection about Domeric for example. Hell, Ned is considered a cold, hard man outside his family.

Lots of famously hard men make exceptions for their children without diminishing their persona as hard men. All Stannis ever talks about is his duty to Shireen. Because she is his heir, and that is important to him. Like Randyll Tarly with Sam…and in fairness we hear about Tarly doing things with/for Sam a LOT more than Stannis/Shireen before threatening to have him murdered for what’s important to [i]him[/i]. Stannis says/does almost nothing in comparison. 

Instead all he ever talks about are his duty and others’ duty to him, how he is perceived, his rights and all the ways he’s been wronged by everyone. That’s literally what he talks about ALL the time. Himself and his grievances. Only Cersei rivals him in terms of constant self-absorption, but to be fair to her we only know that from seeing inside her head via POV, whereas with Stannis it’s is explicit. Can you imagine how his internal POV would read? Which imo suggests what his true sacrifice will ultimately be. 

[quote]Again, I agree. As I said, she is the last shred of Stannis' humanity. And when things get desperate, Stannis will sacrifice what he cares about most in his misguided attempt to get what he wants, and that will be Shireen. Sacrifice is never easy or it is no true sacrifice, that is what Stannis believes, drawn from Mel's incorrect interpretation of the Azor Ahai prophecy. Stannis will burn Shireen because he loves her. If Stannis doesn't care about her, then it won't be a true sacrifice, according to what he and Mel believe about sacrifice.[/quote]

What if, instead, the vehicle of sacrificing his daughter to get what he wants ends up sacrificing [i]what he wants itself[/i]. What if it sacrifices his duty, his self-image as a just and dutiful king, the respect of his men, his line and any chance he had to become king? Would that not be an even greater example of conflict within oneself, to sacrifice your desired goal in an effort to achieve it? Instead of thinking ‘I killed my daughter for my rights’…which, btw, Jung would call just 2 manifestations of Stannis’ ego…he will think ‘I have destroyed everything to achieve nothing.’
 

[quote]Stannis says he loved his brothers now that they are dead. Do you think he said it to them when they were alive? Do you think he would expose a vulnerability like that if they were still around to exploit it? Stannis hides his vulnerability, but Davos knows him well and knows what card to play when trying to persuade his king.[/quote]

He wasn’t that vulnerable; he knowingly left Robert alone and unaware with his assassins because he was pissed about Ned and he assassinated Renly. If Stannis’ loving someone =Stannis killing someone, and the show is correct, maybe we will see an 
Illustration of his love for Shireen.

 

4 hours ago, three-eyed monkey said:

 

 

 

 

EDit: wtf, caught in formatting hell.

4 hours ago, three-eyed monkey said:

 

[James Arryn]

I remember when Stannis killed Shireen on the show the Stanstans went absolutely apeshit about this being more of the show’s agenda/bias against Stannis, about them clearly just trying to ruin his character, etc. but I was not posting when it was confirmed that it’s actually from GRRM. How did they deal with it?

edit: I ask because the Stanstans pretty much ruined Stannis for me. I originally found him interesting and I’m a huge fan of Richard III and even defend King John a bit, 2 Stannis models, but the Stanstans endlessly glossing over all his faults and inflating his virtues (while often including vaguely alt-right/incel commentaries on society) without any new material to drown it out eventually turned him into that song you can’t stand to hear because your co-workers insist on blaring it over and over and over again. 

I personally thought the show humanized Stannis a lot and downplayed his constant whinging to make him more likeable. The Baratheon brother they truly changed for the worse was Renly, though in fairness that rant in the woods did give him more altruistic depth than he showed in the books, but he was otherwise diminished in every way. 

[The Young Maester]

3 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

I remember when Stannis killed Shireen the Stanstans went absolutely apeshit about this being more of the show’s agenda/bias against Stannis, about them clearly just trying to ruin his character, etc. but I was not posting when it was confirmed that it’s actually from GRRM. How did they deal with it?

I personally thought the show humanized Stannis a lot and downplayed his constant whinging to make him more likeable. The Baratheon brother they truly changed for the worse was Renly, though in fairness that rant in the woods did give him more altruistic depth than he showed in the books, but he was otherwise diminished in every way. 

I have to disagree. It is obvious d&d had a bias dislike for stannis. One of the scenes I remember is where lord Florent arrived with some more men to aid stannis (after blackwater). And stannis had him burnt at the stake for refusing to tear down his idols or whatever. We know he was burnt in the books, but in the show it legit dosent say anything about his plot for shireen. Not to forget how he said “he was an infidel” like what is this a crusades or something?
They just paint him as this tyrannical fanatic. 

Meanwhile they whitewash characters like Cersei and Tywin. Which really makes you worry about the state of mind of these producers.

They even admitted in interviews that they werent big fans of stannis.