Watch, Watched, Watching: Mr and Mrs Smith and Other Famous Hits

[DMC]

11 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Batman really isn't a very good detective, he's constantly fucking it up, only makes really obvious connections between things..

It was pretty strange that Batman and Gordon were kinda portrayed as the Keystone Cops if you were paying attention -- and I definitely made fun of that while watching.  My favorite was..

Spoiler

...when Penguin had to explain the difference between "el" and "la" in Spanish. 

[IlyaP]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

It was pretty strange that Batman and Gordon were kinda portrayed as the Keystone Cops if you were paying attention -- and I definitely made fun of that while watching.  My favorite was..

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...when Penguin had to explain the difference between "el" and "la" in Spanish. 

Given the project that Matt Reeves had in mind with this project, it all makes sense.

He's stated in interviews that he wanted a young Batman, in his early years, who makes mistakes and is still learning and figuring himself out as Batman. So the little slip-ups like that contrasted against the cryptographic work, awareness of the (medical term?) involving the finger of the mayor being cut off, being able to interpret some of Riddler's messages, it's all quite humanising and makes for a more interesting viewing experience, at least for me.

Which makes the Spanish gag doubly understandable.

(The partnership with Jim Gordon, like some kind of odd couple, is also wonderful. The two of them are good foils for one another.)

[briantw]

2 hours ago, Whiskeyjack said:

I liked The Batman quite a bit, possibly more than a lot of other people here judging by the mixed reactions.

I really loved the first two hours.  If it had ended with Batman's conversation with Riddler at around the two hour mark (the one you mention in your spoilers), it would have been my absolute favorite Batman movie.  They finally nailed Gotham.  Burton was too over the top and Nolan was too realistic.  This was the perfect blend of realism and a bleak, rainy, dark hellscape.  

The last hour (give or take) knocked it down below Dark Knight and Batman Begins.  

[WarGalley]

Did no one else have a problem with (The Batman spoilers)

Spoiler

The Riddler not knowing Bruce was Batman despite knowing all the dark secrets of the other high profile Gotham elites and also being obsessed with both Bruce Wayne and Batman?

 

[Mindwalker]

5 hours ago, RumHam said:

I also finished this yesterday. I liked it a lot but it's no What We Do In The Shadows. Though few shows are that funny. I then learned he was a real guy. So spoilers from wikipedia:

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I don't know if they'll go that far, but the image of Rhys Darby with peg-everything cracks me up.

 

 

I never watched WWDITS (tbh I'd never heard of Taika Waititi before this), but maybe I'll give it a try!

Yes, it's fascinating how much of the backstory is actually true. But I doubt they are interested in historical accuracy for the rest of the story, so... I hope not!

(I say, use Izzy for "retirement". Dude conveniently dresses in black.)

 

(Is the forum wonky for everyone or just for me?)

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, WarGalley said:

Did no one else have a problem with

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The Riddler not knowing Bruce was Batman despite knowing all the dark secrets of the other high profile Gotham elites and also being obsessed with both Bruce Wayne and Batman?

 

Spoiler

Not really.  He clearly has a deep-seated hatred for Bruce and similarly strong admiration for Batman, so it's not too surprising he'd overlook anything that contradicted those preconceived notions.

 

[IlyaP]

1 hour ago, WarGalley said:

The Riddler not knowing Bruce was Batman despite knowing all the dark secrets of the other high profile Gotham elites and also being obsessed with both Bruce Wayne and Batman?

Spoiler

As he seemed to think Batman was somehow his ally and Bruce his foe, and was overcome with an intense kind of hateful envy for Bruce and high regard for Batman, this resulted in a logical blind spot.

And as a forensic analyst, he seems to have based a lot of his decisions and plans on recorded, paper-based data, which, I suppose, assisted in facilitating that blind spot

(Fixed with spoiler text)

[WarGalley]

@IlyaP I’d probably spoiler that post.

[IlyaP]

15 minutes ago, WarGalley said:

@IlyaP I’d probably spoiler that post.

Good spot! Thanks @WarGalley! Post has been fixed.

[dbunting]

6 hours ago, Mexal said:

I saw it too last night. It was fine. I came out of it not really feeling much. It was a good movie but didn't move me in any way. It was also very one note all the way through. I appreciate the noir detective feel but would have liked it to be a lot tighter. When you have a movie with the tone of Seven (2 hours long), it's really hard to sustain that over almost 3 hours and not be drained. Thought everyone played their characters well, just got really tired by the end.

 

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That's when he found his Dad's videos of his sexual encounters. You see this in Season 1. it changed him significantly.

 

I remember that 

Spoiler

but I thought he was 11 when he found the videos. His mom clearly remembers the change happening at 8-9. 

Either way it does help explain his characters anger issues and relationships.

[IlyaP]

Thinking about the Batman discussions had earlier today, I found myself going back to what I think might be Nolan's finest moment, and I wonder if, for some people, Reeves' interpretation lacked the thematic bullesye that Nolan had with this one scene in The Dark Knight.

[Ran]

36 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

Reeves' interpretation lacked the thematic bullesye that Nolan had with this one scene in The Dark Knight.

While I missed seeing a debonair Bruce Wayne, that line has more to do with Harvey than Bruce/Batman. Year Two Batman shouldn't be thinking about what his retirement plans are, so I at least didn't miss anything like that.

[IlyaP]

18 minutes ago, Ran said:

While I missed seeing a debonair Bruce Wayne, that line has more to do with Harvey than Bruce/Batman. Year Two Batman shouldn't be thinking about what his retirement plans are, so I at least didn't miss anything like that.

Isn't The Dark Knight technically Batman Year 3 as well? (I went exploring and found this Reddit timeline thead - what do you think?

[IlyaP]

(That said, some argue that TDK takes place only a year after BB, which makes TDK, in the Nolan films, Batman: Year Two?)

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Netflix lost $54b in a single day. 

They're already talking about expanding to being an ad based service as well.

[sologdin]

Also thought the music was excellent and fit perfectly.

no doubt. menacing brassy main theme, good use of nirvana.

With regard to the ending -

Spoiler

the Riddler basically thought that he and Batman were on the same side

i suppose that vigilantism and lumpenized terrorism share rightwing roots.  neither respects duly constituted authority and both arrogate functions delegated otherwise constitutionally.  they are ill fit for life in the polis, a difference of degree rather than kind.

 

[Ran]

3 hours ago, IlyaP said:

Isn't The Dark Knight technically Batman Year 3 as well? (I went exploring and found this Reddit timeline thead - what do you think?

TDK has the benefit of being the second film of a trilogy, so at least there's a sense of development across films... and as I said, I really don't feel like that scene has genuinely much to say about Batman. Yes, Bruce looks thoughtful about the idea of when does it all end, when can he say his job is done, but mostly it's a scene about Harvey IMO, and I don't recall the films ever lingering on the subject.

To me, the truth is that Batman is someone who does not believe his war against crime will ever end in his lifetime, because it's not in human nature. There is no retirement date, no end of the struggle, because crime will always exist. He usually expects to die fighting. Admittedly, in The Dark Knight Returns he retired for a decade or two after the death of Jason Todd, and he proceeded to watch Gotham slide more and more into crime and deprivation. But mostly, he's not the retiring kind, and he certainly is not likely to think he's in position to retire in the early days of his career, IMO.

Quote

Wherever there is injustice, you will find me. Wherever there is suffering, I'll be there. Wherever liberty is threatened, you will find... the Batman!

 

(Apologies to The Three Amigos)

Two more The Batman things:

I do have to say that for all of the WB's failings to actually give people more good films than bad, the fact that we can get films like The Joker (however divisive), The Suicide Squad, Birds of Prey, and The Batman, or whatever shitty Zack Snyder film we want to talk about, all with wildly different visual styles, is one thing that I do appreciate. Marvel's movies are all so very samey-samey, flat and unimaginative cinematography, creating a consistent visual universe but a very safe and uninteresting one just in terms of its visual language.

And...

Spoiler

I really thought the last reveal was going to be that Riddler was Martha Arkham-Wayne's illegitimate child, born out of wedlock and shuffled quietly into an orphange by the Arkhams. The stuff about her mother murdering her father could have been a hint of sexual abuse, and then her being shuffled in and out of institutions might in part have been done to hide her pregnancy.

Too dark, I know, but I admit my mind went that way as things progressed.

 

[Heartofice]

25 minutes ago, Ran said:

I do have to say that for all of the WB's failings to actually give people more good films than bad, the fact that we can get films like The Joker (however divisive), The Suicide Squad, Birds of Prey, and The Batman, or whatever shitty Zack Snyder film we want to talk about, all with wildly different visual styles, is one thing that I do appreciate. Marvel's movies are all so very samey-samey, flat and unimaginative cinematography, creating a consistent visual universe but a very safe and uninteresting one just in terms of its visual language.

I wonder if in years to come there will be a whole new Marvel / DC fanboy war about who made the best movies. Right now it feels like it’s Marvel who are doing it right and WB/DC are screwing it up. But if you actually look at the recent output DC are really ahead ( that even discounting the turgid Sony Marvel efforts like Morbius)

[DMC]

24 minutes ago, Ran said:

And...

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I really thought the last reveal was going to be that Riddler was Martha Arkham-Wayne's illegitimate child, born out of wedlock and shuffled quietly into an orphange by the Arkhams. The stuff about her mother murdering her father could have been a hint of sexual abuse, and then her being shuffled in and out of institutions might in part have been done to hide her pregnancy.

Too dark, I know, but I admit my mind went that way as things progressed.

 

I like it!

On the line from The Dark Knight - I agree that it is primarily about Harvey.  IIRC it was even in the trailers as an obvious nod to him becoming Two-Face.  However, in terms of Nolan's trilogy, it has some resonance for Batman as well.  Bale repeats the line when "he takes the fall" at the end of the film, and in that moment he's clearly referring to both Harvey and Batman.

Also, Nolan's Batman, at least, certainly thinks about retirement.  The second film is about him hoping Harvey can take his place so he can take Rachel, and the third film is Alfred urging him to handover all his tech/abilities to the police and let them handle things (something I think every iteration of Alfred should urge, ideally near the beginning of the film/series).

[Ran]

14 minutes ago, DMC said:

Also, Nolan's Batman, at least, certainly thinks about retirement.  The second film is about him hoping Harvey can take his place so he can take Rachel, and the third film is Alfred urging him to handover all his tech/abilities to the police and let them handle things (something I think every iteration of Alfred should urge, ideally near the beginning of the film/series).

Good point. It's been awhile since I've watched all three, and I admit I forgot about that conversation in the third film. I think I always felt that aspect of Bruce/Batman felt misplaced to me in Nolan's films, it just seems too early to have him spend all this time and effort and then look for a way out.

  

16 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I wonder if in years to come there will be a whole new Marvel / DC fanboy war about who made the best movies. Right now it feels like it’s Marvel who are doing it right and WB/DC are screwing it up. But if you actually look at the recent output DC are really ahead ( that even discounting the turgid Sony Marvel efforts like Morbius)

Maybe so. I think the MCU films have largely been safe projects, outside of maybe the Taika Waititi Thor films, and I can't say any of them have been actively bad (but then, I haven't seen Black Widow or The Eternals, which I know critics didn't much car for), but mostly they have been so boringly the same and safe as films. Warner Bros. and their embrace of this "Elseworlds" kind of approach has given them a lot of visual freedom.