Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broken one Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Quote Ukraine has many Russians and Russian-speakers already living there, and I suspect they'll be fine accepting people who swapped sides as long as they had not committed heinous war crimes beforehand. This is one thing. Second is that at least some of the men (deserters and those who spoke on Ukrainian media) have no future in Russia. Of course it may turn out it won't work, for various reasons. Its always risky to arm enemies and some crap may happen. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 More from the Russian side of the negotiations. They want more movement on Ukraine recognising Crimea as part of Russia and on the status of the Donbas, but they are apparently happy with Ukraine accepting neutrality and not becoming part of NATO. It sounds to me like mainly Russia is using the talks as a placeholder to see how the military operations unfold on the ground and then will come to a deal when it is in their interests to do so (whilst, of course, in the meantime civilians are hurt and killed). Ukraine has something of the same idea going on, but I think is more willing to accept a ceasefire to evacuate civilians from the worst-affected areas. Meanwhile, apparently 16,000 Syrian fighters have volunteered to fight for Russia in Ukraine, which is not the same thing as saying that 16,000 troops are willing to roll out immediately. There are some security concerns that removing that number of troops from Syria might adversely affect the ongoing conflict there. Some interviews with Syrian soldiers and mercenaries acknowledging they know that Russia is the aggressor, but the pay for a three-month tour of duty is considerably greater than a year's full employment at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Russia an Ukraine is old and complicated. RT is banned in the West and Western MSM has picked it's side. We've had plague - war, hyperinflation and famine are the new tools of complaince. The world has changed. I see it in the water. I feel it in the Earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, For none now live who remember it. Tolkien was smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Lol, we found the Russian plant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share Posted March 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, ummester said: Russia an Ukraine is old and complicated. RT is banned in the West and Western MSM has picked it's side. We've had plague - war, hyperinflation and famine are the new tools of complaince. The world has changed. I see it in the water. I feel it in the Earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, For none now live who remember it. Tolkien was smart. What? Single digit inflation is hardly “hyperinflation”. Please to tell us what possible rational and true justification can be offered to justify Russia’s blatant violation of international law and norms. RT news doesn’t count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: What? Single digit inflation is hardly “hyperinflation”. Please to tell us what possible rational and true justification can be offered to justify Russia’s blatant violation of international law and norms. RT news doesn’t count. What was it again with trolls and feeding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, Toth said: Lol, we found the Russian plant. I'm no Russian plant, I'm fully aware Putin is am ex KGB warmonger nationalist. Each nation reserves a sovereign right to look out for it's own interests, in my view. In this post truth age, there is no objective good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Take some time off the internet, take a walk, find a hobby. One that doesn't involve fearmongering in forums. And a personal addendum: We can talk all day long about observer bias and subjectivity, but it is not healthy to look at the flood of news sources and cynically declare them all equally bad (while still cherry-picking those viewpoints that confirm your own bias), the game now is to look at as many sources as possible, question their intentions (and differentiate between those that have a bias but try to tell the truth and those that are just blatantly lying to you) and get a picture of what truth the more reliable sources can agree upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 1 minute ago, ummester said: I'm no Russian plant, I'm fully aware Putin is am ex KGB warmonger nationalist. Each nation reserves a sovereign right to look out for it's own interests, in my view. In this post truth age, there is no objective good or bad. While there is an objective level to look at this, that yes, Russia is looking out for it's own interests, we also have to acknowledge that Putin has broken the rules of the game. Invading your neighbour isn't something the world finds acceptable any more, so we do think that what Putin has done is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 16 minutes ago, ummester said: We've had plague - war, hyperinflation and famine are the new tools of complaince. True, Putin is trying to use all those tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Just now, Heartofice said: While there is an objective level to look at this, that yes, Russia is looking out for it's own interests, we also have to acknowledge that Putin has broken the rules of the game. Invading your neighbour isn't something the world finds acceptable any more, so we do think that what Putin has done is bad. Why do 'we' think that? I think for myself. I've seen so much news of the 'war' disproved since it started. Ghost of Kiev, model with a paintball gun, guys on the island shouting 'fuck you' to the death actually taken as prisoners. This raises massive doubt for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, DMC said: True, Putin is trying to use all those tools. Perhaps. Perhaps he's an evil mastermind collapsing the world economy by invading Ukraine. Or, perhaps not. I'm not so quick to jump to a definate conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, ummester said: Why do 'we' think that? I think for myself. I've seen so much news of the 'war' disproved since it started. Ghost of Kiev, model with a paintball gun, guys on the island shouting 'fuck you' to the death actually taken as prisoners. This raises massive doubt for me. Saying 'this one thing turned out to be untrue, therefore I'm going to use it to say any other given fact might be untrue' is pretty silly. Particularly in a war. And it isn't thinking for yourself. It's just looking for an excuse. The two things are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, ummester said: Why do 'we' think that? I think for myself. I've seen so much news of the 'war' disproved since it started. Ghost of Kiev, model with a paintball gun, guys on the island shouting 'fuck you' to the death actually taken as prisoners. This raises massive doubt for me. You don't think there is a global consensus that countries don't have the right to just invade their neighbours? Pretty much everything you mentioned there was disproved within hours and not shared by mainstream media who do actually tend to fact check stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Russia continues to violate the Geneva Conventions: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 "I think for myself" -- thou dost protest too much methinks. It's really not very convincing when you feel the need to state it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Just now, Heartofice said: You don't think there is a global consensus that countries don't have the right to just invade their neighbours? Has USA ever cared about that? In Aussie news recently they said we should invade Solomon Islands before China does. Where is the the objective balance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummester Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Just now, mormont said: Saying 'this one thing turned out to be untrue, therefore I'm going to use it to say any other given fact might be untrue' is pretty silly. Particularly in a war. And it isn't thinking for yourself. It's just looking for an excuse. The two things are different. I showed 3 things that turned out to be untrue, 3 things for which an apology or retraction was never offered. I can tell BS when I see it. That does not mean I agree with what Russia is doing. I don't trust the narrative or motive of either side. But fall for wartime propaganda if you like, your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 32 minutes ago, ummester said: We've had plague - war, hyperinflation and famine are the new tools of complaince. Is this a typo for compliance? If so that still makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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