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House of the Dragon Premieres August 21, 2022


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15 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This kind of brings us back to an earlier conversation. . . are they unprepared or just uninterested? 

that's sort of one of my key criticisms: they only "get prepared" when they're interested. Reporters are fans themselves. Journalistic standards dropped and many hype news sites are just "we hired up the intern who likes Game of Thrones to do our episode by episode reviews of it". That means they're fickle and just...pout, not reporting on things they don't like. Which is bizarre, because major franchises like comic book movies or Star Wars...people complain all the time! They always report on stuff they don't like.

But the other side of that coin, unfortunately....is that when they're truly interested in something, to blind hype levels, they don't "research" it either. Just gush about it. Ugh.

The fact that major, mainstream news sites were genuinely surprised that Season 8 was bad...after EVERYTHING going on since Season 5? If an invented rape subplot throwing out a major character's storyline wasn't enough to make them turn on the show, why that? Where were they this whole time? ...my only guess is I think many convinced themselves "all the other things were just condensations so they can get to the main storyline about the White Walkers"....then when Season 8 shows "they're even willing to throw out the White Walker storyline, nothing is sacred to them, these weren't just tradeoffs to focus on the 'core storyline' while Sansa or Dorne must have been unimportant subplots"...blew their minds.

I don't know. What I wouldn't give to actually interview one of these reporters one on one, to point out obvious questions - over social media they can ignore this. But to honestly ask at like a live panel, "do you honestly think this is the same ending the books will do?"...many of them just...."blank out". Didn't even ask that question. Because it's horrifying.

It took me a while to realize....many of them..."they're not playing the same game we're playing", debating facts and evidence. That whole mentality of "it must be true, because I believe it strongly!"

Some in denial even convince themselves "this has to be the book ending in broad strokes, D&D wouldn't lie about that".  But you sort of expect that denial -- what freaks the hell out of me are...the people who don't even ask that question. Don't even consider anymore "this was supposed to be an adaptation, did it diverge from that?"...and when you DO bring it up, they sort of get a "blankface" like it's inconceivable, and just...change the subject.

Consider that Fire & Blood came out in November 2018, and it was announced in late October 2019 that they're making a TV show based on it. News sites have had OVER TWO YEARS to read the source material for this. It's not like it's four longform novels - didn't even just...read the second half of Fire & Blood, which it is based on?

I don't think people read books anymore in large numbers. Or at least...it freaks me out that the people *reporting on it* don't read books anymore. "I'm a huge fan, but I've never read the books! Now trust me to report on the TV adaptation!".....does not compute.

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Ack, I'm getting off topic yelling about the apathy of the hype media reporters. 

We've had a few tidbits the past week about House of the Dragon:

Brief interviews by the Viserys and Aegon II actors talking for the first time about their roles:

Bits of casting news:

  • Maddie Evans - who has been our radar as a potential cast member for some time, due to her Instagram follows of other cast members - just had her Spotlight profile update to confirm she will appear in episode 8 as "Dyana" -- ???? (we know it's episode 8 because it's the only one Geeta Patel is directing) - https://www.spotlight.com/3416-7868-3928
  • Stuntman/Extra Aron von Andrian's Spotlight profile has updated to credit him as a guard in House of the Dragon...specifically called "Velaryon Knight (Bloodstone)", thus confirming they're going to use the name "Bloodstone" on screen, not just generally "the Stepstones" - https://www.spotlight.com/1178-0168-2694

 

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Not nearly enough time - with the twin goals of 1- set up House of the Dragon, 2 - finish researching and presenting what went wrong behind the scenes on Game of Thrones.  I need to read the print off every sentence of Hibberd’s idiotic book, which stupidly admitted to folly after folly as a warped sympathy ploy.

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I think the issue with HotD is that the source material there is really, well, bland. 'Heirs of the Dragon' is neither a very detailed nor a very tantalizing chapter of FaB ... and that's basically what the plot of the first season of the show is based on.

We have neither complex character nor great and surprising plot twists. AGoT had Robert's death, Ned's downfall and execution, Robb being declared king, and the hatching of the dragon eggs ... not to mention a character like Tyrion.

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I don’t think people covering HOTD are going to be researching what went wrong on GOT. Most people aren’t as invested in this universe as we are. It’s just going to be cast interviews, episode recaps, and maybe some fun “Top 10 X” lists if the show is a hit, that’s it. They only need one person on staff who read FnB to write any pieces providing background information.

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A lot of people (myself included before I read the books) read online about what was going to happen next based on the books during the early seasons of GOT. I expect this will happen again, but I’m curious how people will react when they read about how all the main characters die and Rhaenyra meets an inglorious end. I expect it will damper some of the enthusiasm.

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33 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I think the issue with HotD is that the source material there is really, well, bland. 'Heirs of the Dragon' is neither a very detailed nor a very tantalizing chapter of FaB ... and that's basically what the plot of the first season of the show is based on.

We have neither complex character nor great and surprising plot twists. AGoT had Robert's death, Ned's downfall and execution, Robb being declared king, and the hatching of the dragon eggs ... not to mention a character like Tyrion.

If only there was some way to expand that chapter....some group of people with the ability to write in some kind of room togehter....via some kind of process. I'm going to make up a word as a placeholder let's sayyyyyy...."adaptation". If only that were possible, then maybe they could make it more interesting than what's on the page.

I dunno, I'm just spitballing here. 

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19 minutes ago, Black of Hair and Heart said:

If only there was some way to expand that chapter....some group of people with the ability to write in some kind of room togehter....via some kind of process. I'm going to make up a word as a placeholder let's sayyyyyy...."adaptation". If only that were possible, then maybe they could make it more interesting than what's on the page.

I dunno, I'm just spitballing here. 

Well, to promote the show the journalists would actually have to read the scripts or watch the show before it is actually finished - that is not going to happen.

To promote and talk about GoT you had a greatly successful and tantalizing series of novels to point to. For HotD you don't have that.

We will only see if the transfer from 'historical outline' to tantalizing TV series actually works when we see the show. For GoT it was pretty much guaranteed that this would be a success because the source material was this good - which is why HBO reshot the pilot of GoT and not, you know, the pilot of that Long Night mess.

You could look at ASoIaF and be very sure that this will be a success as a TV show if the budget met the needs of the plot and the scope of the story.

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I’m guessing HBO is aware that HOTD lacks the book material that GOT had for the first couple of seasons.

They must be aware that they are relaying in the individual brilliance of the producers and writers. Which is what caused GOT to fail because of the lack of book material.

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There's been plenty of good shows and film made out of historical matter where we don't necessarily have the blow-by-blow of interactions and relations and so on. But yes, it means that House of the Dragon has a lot of room to fill in the gaps in the story. It's why my expectations for it are quite measured, I think: if it's great, wonderful; if it's mediocre, fine; if it's poor, oh well. It all rests on Condal and his writing team

I think the source material, and the setting, for House of the Dragon is easily a good skeleton on which to tell a great story. It's the a compressed and much more dramatic Anarchy, plus dragons.

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You guys are overlooking the obvious: all the brothel and sexposition scenes will undoubtedly fill up a good chunk of screen time. 

(Months ago, I saw an interview Alicent did where she implied that there wouldn’t be nearly as much sexual assault on HOTD as GOT—Dragon Demands probably has it on file somewhere lol—so at least there’s that. Although we could talk all day about the drawbacks of our current cultural climate, the decline of sexual violence on screen is definitely one of the benefits of the MeToo movement).

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

You guys are overlooking the obvious: all the brothel and sexposition scenes will undoubtedly fill up a good chunk of screen time. 

(Months ago, I saw an interview Alicent did where she implied that there wouldn’t be nearly as much sexual assault on HOTD as GOT—Dragon Demands probably has it on file somewhere lol—so at least there’s that. Although we could talk all day about the drawbacks of our current cultural climate, the decline of sexual violence on screen is definitely one of the benefits of the MeToo movement).

Actually she just said that in broad terms with no specific knowledge - I mean, WE would say there's no major rape scene in the source material in this era - but it was actually a very interesting article in which she talked from EXPERIENCE about how when she was just starting out acting she felt she was pressured into doing a nude scene she didn't really want to do; and instead she had this very mature and weighty set of comments on how shows are hiring up "intimacy coordinators" now and "actually, Post-Me Too Movement didn't magically fix everything, film sets are still mostly a boys club" etc. 

But her comments were more about the industry in general.

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6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I think the issue with HotD is that the source material there is really, well, bland. 'Heirs of the Dragon' is neither a very detailed nor a very tantalizing chapter of FaB ... and that's basically what the plot of the first season of the show is based on.

  • Viserys's coronation tourney & Daemon's gold cloaks clearing out Flea Bottom like an army (as seen in spy photos)
  • War in the Stepstones - the season is front heavy with battle scenes involving dragons
  • Criston Cole bludgeons Laenor's lover Joffrey Lonmouth to death on Laenor & Rhaenyra's wedding day
  • Time skip, introduce Rhaenyra's sons...who don't look like Laenor (this will be a shock to new audiences, social media will be buzzing over it)
  • Aemond claims Vhagar and loses an eye in the ensuing fight with Rhaenyra's children
  • Vaemond Velaryon makes a play for Driftmark and gets killed
  • Viserys dies and the Greens seize power, killing Lyman Beesbury
  • Rhaenyra coronation and Dance over Storm's End

I'm only mildly worried about episode 4...filmed as a block with episode 5, the wedding episode. And it's necessary setup for the wedding; explaining who Laenor is, Rhaenyra's other suitors, how it's going to be a sham marriage for political reasons, etc. ---- but it's got all that "young romance" stuff in it, the shippers love that. LOT of sex scenes from what we've heard. Rhaenyra/Criston? Laenor/Joffrey? and so on.

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2 hours ago, Ran said:

I think the source material, and the setting, for House of the Dragon is easily a good skeleton on which to tell a great story. It's the a compressed and much more dramatic Anarchy, plus dragons.

Of course, the potential is there. But if you look at the outline then we are up for a rather unusual general setting. The first season will apparently cover years and decades, i.e. the reign of Viserys I ... and then the narrative framework will suddenly change to a season covering, perhaps, a year or only a couple of months.

4 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:
  • Viserys's coronation tourney & Daemon's gold cloaks clearing out Flea Bottom like an army (as seen in spy photos)
  • War in the Stepstones - the season is front heavy with battle scenes involving dragons
  • Criston Cole bludgeons Laenor's lover Joffrey Lonmouth to death on Laenor & Rhaenyra's wedding day
  • Time skip, introduce Rhaenyra's sons...who don't look like Laenor (this will be a shock to new audiences, social media will be buzzing over it)
  • Aemond claims Vhagar and loses an eye in the ensuing fight with Rhaenyra's children
  • Vaemond Velaryon makes a play for Driftmark and gets killed
  • Viserys dies and the Greens seize power, killing Lyman Beesbury
  • Rhaenyra coronation and Dance over Storm's End

I'm only mildly worried about episode 4...filmed as a block with episode 5, the wedding episode. And it's necessary setup for the wedding; explaining who Laenor is, Rhaenyra's other suitors, how it's going to be a sham marriage for political reasons, etc. ---- but it's got all that "young romance" stuff in it, the shippers love that. LOT of sex scenes from what we've heard. Rhaenyra/Criston? Laenor/Joffrey? and so on.

Oh, I know the events and all ... the problem is the characters and how they flesh them out, what dialogue they write, and how the plot gets more depth.

I mean, we don't really know most of the characters from FaB the way we know the characters from ASoIaF. Alicent Hightower can be presented in the show as a sympathetic mother who doesn't get along with her stepdaughter and ends up staging a coup because she is genuinely concerned for the safety and well-being of her children ... or she could be presented as Cersei 2.0.

Rhaenyra could be presented as stupid and arrogant slut (i.e. also as Cersei 2.0) or as a more complex, more three-dimensional character.

Daemon is very contradictory character whose ultimate motivations are unclear, meaning the writers have to determine what he his motivations are and explain to the audience why he does what he does.

And so on.

If the writing is great, then the story will work and we might get a less complex (insofar as factions are concerned) GoT-like civil war story with more dragons.

If the writing is average or even bad (like, say, most of the original writing for GoT) then the story might be even worse than GoT.

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53 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:
  • Viserys's coronation tourney & Daemon's gold cloaks clearing out Flea Bottom like an army (as seen in spy photos)
  • War in the Stepstones - the season is front heavy with battle scenes involving dragons
  • Criston Cole bludgeons Laenor's lover Joffrey Lonmouth to death on Laenor & Rhaenyra's wedding day
  • Time skip, introduce Rhaenyra's sons...who don't look like Laenor (this will be a shock to new audiences, social media will be buzzing over it)
  • Aemond claims Vhagar and loses an eye in the ensuing fight with Rhaenyra's children
  • Vaemond Velaryon makes a play for Driftmark and gets killed
  • Viserys dies and the Greens seize power, killing Lyman Beesbury
  • Rhaenyra coronation and Dance over Storm's End

I'm only mildly worried about episode 4...filmed as a block with episode 5, the wedding episode. And it's necessary setup for the wedding; explaining who Laenor is, Rhaenyra's other suitors, how it's going to be a sham marriage for political reasons, etc. ---- but it's got all that "young romance" stuff in it, the shippers love that. LOT of sex scenes from what we've heard. Rhaenyra/Criston? Laenor/Joffrey? and so on.

Lots of sex scenes before the time skip? With the teenage girls instead of the grown women?

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2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Lots of sex scenes before the time skip? With the teenage girls instead of the grown women?

If they do a Cole and rhaenyra romance they deffo wont mention rhaenyras young age. I Dont expect viewers to take it kindly if they find out shes underage.

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10 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

If they do a Cole and rhaenyra romance they deffo wont mention rhaenyras young age. I Dont expect viewers to take it kindly if they find out shes underage.

But if they're using the younger actress, they'll be able to tell just by looking at her. It's going to be even weirder if they do the romance with Daemon too.

While I suspect that they'll try to find ways to make Cole more sympathetic, I hope he still remains fundamentally a villain. A big part of his villainy is that he wants to destroy a woman who dared to spurn him. Writing it so that the two had a romance that ended badly could still work, but I think it's more powerful if she never returned his feelings. Then it would show that he's acting more out of ego than heartbreak.

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4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

But if they're using the younger actress, they'll be able to tell just by looking at her. It's going to be even weirder if they do the romance with Daemon too.

While I suspect that they'll try to find ways to make Cole more sympathetic, I hope he still remains fundamentally a villain. A big part of his villainy is that he wants to destroy a woman who dared to spurn him. Writing it so that the two had a romance that ended badly could still work, but I think it's more powerful if she never returned his feelings. Then it would show that he's acting more out of ego than heartbreak.

Looked up the girl that’s playing young rhaenyra and she’s 22. But she deffo looks younger, and I’m guessing they are gonna portray her as a teen. So I kinda see your point.

And Ser Cole’s ego is soo funny btw. Like how does it go through his mind that a knight from an unknown house is worthy of the attention of a princess bound to inherit the most powerful kingdom in planetos.

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