NBA next- The Lebron-less playoffs?

[David Selig]

Draymond didn't destroy Jokic at all, he just had a way better team around him which won the series on the offensive end, not with defense. Jokic averaged 31 PPG on fantastic 64.3 TS% and added 13 boards and 6 assists per game and his team had an offensive rating of 113.8 for the series which is pretty damn good for a team missing their second and third best scorers whose second option was freaking Aaron Gordon, a guy who wasn't good enough to be a second option even on Orlando teams which won 25 games.

But even if Jokic had been horrible in the playoffs, that's completely irrelevant for the MVP award. The voting was already done and it's not "The best player in basketball" or "Who do you think will do best in the playoffs" award.

[baxus]

21 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Nobody is saying Jokic wasn't a top five player this year, just that personally I did not find him to be the most impressive. And let's be clear, the MVP is kind of an arbitrary award. Give it to the best player on the best team, that's Booker. Give it to the most important player on the best team, that's Paul. Give it to the best player, that's Giannis. Give it to the guy who did more for his team than any other single player, that's probably Luka. Give it to the guy with the best overall stats, that's Jokic. Give it to the guy with the most spectacular season, that's Ja. You can rationalize it anyway you'd like, I'd just hope the MVP is expected to be in the second round.

Jokic was the first player in history to hit 2000 points, 1000 rebounds and 500 assists over the course of the season. And he did it while talking about team effort despite being on a team whose other best players were out for the season. As someone already mentioned, their second option was Aaron Gordon. Hell, they have even given Cousins a contract. Now that's scraping the bottom of the barrel if ever there was one.

Take Jokic out of that team, and they're not only not making the playoffs, they won't even have to tank the season to be draft lottery favourites.

DISCLAIMER:
Before someone points to the fact he is my compatriot and that's why I'm saying it, I need to point out that I'm not much of a fan since he's skipped playing for the national team on multiple occasions. That being said, I believe in giving credit where it's due.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

26 minutes ago, baxus said:

Jokic was the first player in history to hit 2000 points, 1000 rebounds and 500 assists over the course of the season. And he did it while talking about team effort despite being on a team whose other best players were out for the season. As someone already mentioned, their second option was Aaron Gordon. Hell, they have even given Cousins a contract. Now that's scraping the bottom of the barrel if ever there was one.

Take Jokic out of that team, and they're not only not making the playoffs, they won't even have to tank the season to be draft lottery favourites.

DISCLAIMER:
Before someone points to the fact he is my compatriot and that's why I'm saying it, I need to point out that I'm not much of a fan since he's skipped playing for the national team on multiple occasions. That being said, I believe in giving credit where it's due.  

Look, I'm not saying Jokic is bad or anything, I just don't think you'll find many people, including his fellow countrymen like yourself, who would say with a straight face that they'd pick him to start a team with if they had a choice of any current player, especially if you set age and health aside. To me Jokic is a better version of Kevin Love, which is he puts up a lot of impressive stats, but ultimately it doesn't lead to a lot of postseason success. When they made their run to the conference Finals I thought Murray was clearly the better player. Even if you guys keeping saying that the MVP is a regular season award I want my MVP to be a real difference maker come the playoffs and Jokic hasn't proven to be that. And even if Murray and Porter were there, I'm not sure I think this team gets past the second round, which again, how many MVPs have you thought have no chance of winning the title? Looking at the last 20 years, the only other player to win MVP who had no shot of winning it all was Russ. Even Nash's BS MVPs still made you feel like the Suns had a real chance. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Lame, looks like Ja is going to miss the rest of the playoffs.

[WarGalley]

Yeah, more bad luck about injuries. Grizzlies played competitively without him but definitely feel like we're being robbed of entertainment with his absence.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Big Bad Bob Lanier has passed RIP.
 " NBA Hall of Famer Bob Lanier dead at age 73 

 https://nypost.com/2022/05/11/nba-hall-of-famer-bob-lanier-dead-at-age-73?utm_source=drive&utm_campaign=android_nyp "

He had a phenomenal career as Motowns Center during the 70's.

Averaged 20 points and 10 boards on 51% shooting over 959 NBA games.
 

[Wilbur]

Lanier really was a wonder to watch, and I am afraid that we are going to bid goodbye to a whole generation of NBA greats in the next decade.

He was so powerful and yet with that sweet lefty stroke, and it is a shame that he didn't get proper medical treatment for his knees and had to waste his best years in Detroit.  Imagine if he had spent his best years on a well-coached, well-run team like Nelson's Bucks as he did in the end.

And he was Kareem's nemesis:

 

[BigFatCoward]

10 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Lanier really was a wonder to watch, and I am afraid that we are going to bid goodbye to a whole generation of NBA greats in the next decade.

He was so powerful and yet with that sweet lefty stroke, and it is a shame that he didn't get proper medical treatment for his knees and had to waste his best years in Detroit.  Imagine if he had spent his best years on a well-coached, well-run team like Nelson's Bucks as he did in the end.

And he was Kareem's nemesis:

 

Can't be many people who made so many all star apps without making all nba team?

[WarGalley]

Celtics playing some good basketball right now.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, WarGalley said:

Celtics playing some good basketball right now.

Fear the deer!!!

ETA: What a crazy final 10 seconds for Holiday. Two elite defensive plays to save the day.

[Ramsay B.]

Wild sequences there at the end. Jrue getting big!

[KingintheNorth4]

Incredible defensive plays from Jrue to seal it. 

[Maithanet]

What a finish, Holiday and Giannis came to play.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I still find this so confusing. Ja may already be a top 5 player in the league and yet the Grizz look to be better without him. Doesn't make any sense, but they're boat racing the Warriors on a night that should have been the end of their season. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Lol, quote of the day:

"I'm not even going to give runs anymore. The whole game is a run, a 100-56 run."

[WarGalley]

Yeah was not expecting a 40 point blowout. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, WarGalley said:

Yeah was not expecting a 40 point blowout. 

It's over 50 and the third is still going. The Warriors small back can't rebound at all going against the best rebounding team in the league.

[briantw]

Would be a nice bit of nostalgia for me to see the Warriors blow another 3-1 lead. 

[Calibandar]

On 5/10/2022 at 2:17 PM, Tywin et al. said:

How many people are taking Jokic first overall if we were drafting players to start a franchise with, because I'm not sure he's even in the top five guys I'd take? 

Ask yourself, when was the last time you thought the MVP had no chance at winning a title, excluding last year?

Also, you can say it's a regular season all you want, Draymond destroying Jokic in the first round highlights why it's a flawed concept.

I think the problem is that what you are saying simply does not make any sense. At all.

The whole idea that Draymond destroyed Jokic in the playoffs is a pretty unique and downright bizarre, biased take. As is the idea that he is a bit better than Kevin Love. Draymond didnt destroy anything, and as David Selig pointed out, Jokic still played an excellent series himself even if his very shorthanded team obviously fell short against a fit Golden State team. In fact its Draymond who is becoming a liability for Golden State with his non-shooting.

On 5/10/2022 at 7:35 PM, Tywin et al. said:

Look, I'm not saying Jokic is bad or anything, I just don't think you'll find many people, including his fellow countrymen like yourself, who would say with a straight face that they'd pick him to start a team with if they had a choice of any current player, especially if you set age and health aside. To me Jokic is a better version of Kevin Love, which is he puts up a lot of impressive stats, but ultimately it doesn't lead to a lot of postseason success. When they made their run to the conference Finals I thought Murray was clearly the better player. Even if you guys keeping saying that the MVP is a regular season award I want my MVP to be a real difference maker come the playoffs and Jokic hasn't proven to be that. And even if Murray and Porter were there, I'm not sure I think this team gets past the second round, which again, how many MVPs have you thought have no chance of winning the title? 

I think a lot of people actually would consider the MVP of the last 2 years to start a team. I think you would be in the minority by suggesting he is just a stats guy and an unworthy MVP. The comparison to Russ is just awful , especially considering Jokic makes others better with his play and that is one of the things most well known about him.

 

6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I still find this so confusing. Ja may already be a top 5 player in the league and yet the Grizz look to be better without him. Doesn't make any sense, but they're boat racing the Warriors on a night that should have been the end of their season. 

Golden State has been very hit and miss and generally unimpressive this series, partly because of an poor looking and non shooting Green, partly because of a very on and off Klay Thompson. I would not pick them to beat Phoenix if Phoenix manages Dallas.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Calibandar said:

I think the problem is that what you are saying simply does not make any sense. At all.

The whole idea that Draymond destroyed Jokic in the playoffs is a pretty unique and downright bizarre, biased take. As is the idea that he is a bit better than Kevin Love. Draymond didnt destroy anything, and as David Selig pointed out, Jokic still played an excellent series himself even if his very shorthanded team obviously fell short against a fit Golden State team. In fact its Draymond who is becoming a liability for Golden State with his non-shooting.

Unique? Dude, so many of the top basketball analysts were making the same argument. Jokic couldn't move Green when they were 1 on 1 and that disrupted what the Nuggets were trying to do. That Jokic got a bunch of empty stats in a noncompetitive series is not a good argument that he played well, and yes, that's very Kevin Love behavior. 

Quote

I think a lot of people actually would consider the MVP of the last 2 years to start a team. I think you would be in the minority by suggesting he is just a stats guy and an unworthy MVP. The comparison to Russ is just awful , especially considering Jokic makes others better with his play and that is one of the things most well known about him.

If he makes those around him that much better, why is he not elevating his team to be championship competitive? The one run the Nuggets had was because Murray went insane, not because Jokic was a transcendent player. You cannot with a straight face argue that having Jokic makes you a contender, and that's what an MVP should be. If you were a hypothetical GM and were given any player to build around for three years, Jokic shouldn't be in the top five players you'd select.