Star Trek: Strange New Gorns

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

On 7/1/2022 at 7:20 AM, Jaxom 1974 said:

We've see adult Gorn twice before.  Granted, one was in the 60s and subject to the costuming and limitations if that day and age.  But it established a bipedal lizard alien.

That's what I meant. WE haven't seen adult Gorn in SNW. 

On 7/1/2022 at 7:20 AM, Jaxom 1974 said:

Of course, neither instance precludes a savage species that requires a host body to plant its eggs within for incubation...but such Xenomorph comparisons that SNW presents doesn't suggest a species capable of inventing a wheel, let alone warp capable space travel.  Based on what they've shown thus far. 

I dunno, the toddlers seem pretty capable. They might all grow up to be psychopaths with PhD level intellect. 

[IheartIheartTesla]

Is Sam Kirk merely there to remind us that mediocre men can still make it big in the 24th century?

[SpaceChampion]

 

[sifth]

3 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

 

Not sure how I feel about this trailer. I was rather happy up until now, that non of these episode had the crew of the Enterprise dealing with any end of the the world/universe type threats.

[Corvinus85]

On 7/3/2022 at 7:13 PM, sifth said:

Not sure how I feel about this trailer. I was rather happy up until now, that non of these episode had the crew of the Enterprise dealing with any end of the the world/universe type threats.

I've just watched the episode. It was a powerful episode focused on Pike, as expected. This episode strongly ties in with a critical episode from TOS, though I can't say for sure because I never watched TOS and had to look up that stuff. 

This show has surpassed my expectations and for the first time ever I can say I am eagerly looking forward to a new season.

[Macklunkey]

Love this show and the cast are great. 

Pike is now firmly my favourite Captain.

[fionwe1987]

I loved the episode. An excellent cap to the season. 

I dunno what the TOS link is (though I'm planning to Google it), but did anyone else notice the parallels to the premiere to Discovery? The reason for the disaster, and war with Romulus, in this alternate future is Pike essentially making Georgiu's choice and not using the "Vulcan hello" on the Romulan ship, which makes them perceive weakness, but it is the First Officer of the enemy ship who defies his captain and triggers the war, while also leading to the destruction of his ship.

While I've not been as down on Discovery as a lot of others, I do think SNW did it better. They've learned and grown, and managed to do something that was both epic but also deeply personal and moving. Here's hoping some of the same storytelling chops help Discovery continue to improve. 

[SpaceChampion]

I loved the episode, really well done.  They seemed to have learned how to do emotional poignancy without mistaking other things for it.  Don't have time to really think about it as I'm headed out the door, but it's probably due to tying it to character motivations rather than nostalgic sentimentality.

[Durckad]

Spoiler

This was a great capstone to a great season of Trek. I kind of inwardly groaned when I realized they were going to directly reboot a pretty significant episode from TOS, but... it worked. It worked really well. Even the blatant nostalgia-bait of having Kirk show up wasn't cringeworthy. It worked, surprisingly well. 

While I didn't love every episode, this was easily the best first season Trek has ever managed to pull off. I am eagerly anticipating the next one and maybe, hopefully, Paramount gives them an extra couple of episodes? C'mon, Paramount, you know you want to give them 12 episodes for season 2. It's only 2 more!

 

[Jaxom 1974]

That is how you utilize your existing canon.  Perfectly done? No. Damn close though? Yeah. That is how you do this. 

[Durckad]

I will say, that one of the bigger weaknesses of the episode is that, in the very final shots, a Gorn hatchling didn't burst out of Pike's chest and say, directly to the camera, "It's Gornin' time."

That would have made the episode perfect for me.

[Corvinus85]

Thinking more about the finale

Spoiler

Interesting that Pike's methods, methods that embody the ideals of the Federation don't work here, not completely. That Kirk's more aggressive approach was the right choice, as we know from the TOS episode that covers the same events. Pike's humanity sometimes blinds him from fully understanding a different alien culture.

I also feel that this was and still is Pike's Kobayashi Maru. I kept waiting for Kirk to bring it up and that he cheated. Maybe in some way Pike will find a way to cheat, but for now the story is favoring that this is a no-win fate for him.

On another note, the episode also confirmed that the show is not in the Kelvin timeline. Jim mentioned his father, that he had served on the Kelvin and then moved on.

 

[sifth]

Now that's how you end a season. I was nearly crying by the end of it. This has been the best season of a Trek show, in a long, long while.

[Lord Varys]

While I don't think anyone ever asked for a new version of 'Balance of Terror' ... this was really done very well. The only one missing was the old Centurion buddy of the Romulan commander.

22 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

I dunno what the TOS link is (though I'm planning to Google it), but did anyone else notice the parallels to the premiere to Discovery? The reason for the disaster, and war with Romulus, in this alternate future is Pike essentially making Georgiu's choice and not using the "Vulcan hello" on the Romulan ship, which makes them perceive weakness, but it is the First Officer of the enemy ship who defies his captain and triggers the war, while also leading to the destruction of his ship.

There is a clear difference there. The Klingons in Discovery are *just there*. They didn't do anything so far and Burnham insists to attack them with all they've got.

The Romulan ship clearly moved into Federation space and destroyed multiple bases. That was a clear act of aggression and Kirk's reasoning both in the original and the new version about this being interpreted as a sign of weakness does make sense in that context.

Moreover, Earth and Romulus fought a devastating war in the past - the Romulans are known enemies - whereas the Klingons and the Federation were never at war with each other when Discovery begins.

And we do have to keep in mind that this is just a test run for Pike, not *the real deal*. He wants to experience the future his future self wants to avoid.

I must say, all Star Trek completely failed to properly depict the Romulan culture introduced in that classical episode. The Romulans are a militaristic, expansionary force who will not stop their conquests under any circumstances.

They tried to depict that in Enterprise which would have included the Earth-Romulan war if there had been more seasons, but later depictions of the Romulans always had them as shady schemers, not these Roman guys from TOS.

A big problem there, I think, is that TNG really dropped the ball by establishing that the Federation and the Romulans had had no contact for another 100 years.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

Is Sam Kirk already dead in the "prime" timeline; (the one where Pike is disabled in the accident)? He's present on the ship in this episode. Do Pikes actions save him, ensuring months or even years of daily misery?

Anyway, this is a deeper dive than I'd do. 

 

[Jaxom 1974]

In the prime timeline, at some point prior to Kirk getting the Enterprise, his brother Sam had retured to Deneva III and was, I believe, killed there in one of the final episodes of season one...

[Ran]

Decided to watch the show thanks to all the praise here, and have binged my way through to the finale. I was thinking that it's easily the best first season of a Trek show since.. TOS, maybe? Because even TNG's and DS9's first seasons were rough. 

This show seems to have decided to go back down to brass tacks about the things that made Star Trek work. The writers of this feel like they adore Trek in a way that the writers of other recent forays (outside of Lower Decks) don't, though I recognize some of the writers (like Akiva Goldman) are shared.

This finale was especially impressive:

Spoiler

"Balance of Terror" was used so very skillfully to contrast Pike with Kirk. And I loved the reveal near the end that in a way future-Pike went back not just to avert the war but also because Spock is the key to the eventual peace between the Romulans and the Federation. 

Particularly wonderful was the direct homage of the Romulan bridge feed reveal from the TOS episode, including Alexander Courage's score in a new arrangement and the old-fashioned reaction shots leading to Spock finally doing the eyebrow lift.

Best new show I've seen in a good while. If there's a weak episode, it's the Elysian Kingdom one, and I think that's mostly because it came too soon. For obvious reasons it had to be before episode 9, but frankly I would have preferred if they had saved it for S2 and let Spock help resolve it (even if he wouldn't be as funny). It's a little too soon, IMO, to have an episode where almost no one acts like themselves. Though will give that show a point for showing an obvious nod to ASoIaF/GoT in a YA fantasy written in the future, namely the reference to sending a raven to convey a message.

[DaveSumm]

Terrific finale, although one thing that felt odd to me; I got zero Kirk vibes from that actor. He still did a fine job, and I’m not looking for a Shatner impression or anything. But his whole demeanour seemed like a different character. 

I think it’d be good to bench the ‘Pike’s fate’ part of the plot for a season now. Feels like everything is in place for Pike to make his peace with it; he’s witnessed that the least destructive act is to simply accept it and let it happen. Is the show kinda stuck with that as a crucial part of the ultimate finale now? It’d be interesting to see if they can still make something unexpected out of it.

Also I’m wondering if it’d break canon for Pike to find out that he’ll ultimately go back to Talos and live happily ever after? Seeing as he’s got time crystals and future selves to spare…

[ithanos]

Like Ran, I too only recently binged ST:SNW after reading the positive discussion in these threads. It's both novel and nostalgic at the same time. Just enough nostalgia too - Spock's trial by combat dream with a rendition of TOS combat music put a smile on my face (though I kept hearing the Jim Carrey version in my head). The Gorn introduction was curious - though we all know the best way to defeat an adult Gorn is to deploy the double-fisted punch, maybe Kirk can demonstrate next season.    

I'd seen Peck's Spock in Discovery, but it wasn't until I'd seen his Spock in SNW, sans beard with voice and mannerism, that I though to myself - he reminds me of Gregory Peck. Turns out he's Ethan Gregory Peck and his grandfather was Eldred Gregory Peck (the Gregory Peck).
Also, in another bit of trivia, its pretty cool that married couple Rebecca Romijn and Jerry O'Connell (Lower Decks) both play as starship commanders on concurrent Star Trek series.

[DaveSumm]

53 minutes ago, ithanos said:

(though I kept hearing the Jim Carrey version in my head).

I did the same thing 

BrrrrrrRA! BrrrRA!