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Star Trek: Strange New Gorns


SpaceChampion
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3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Surprise, surprise ... perhaps Q does this stuff so that Picard faces his weird childhood traumas.
Wasn't that clear literally from the start ;-)?

It seemed likely, yes; the big question is why it matters so much to Q.

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The absence of Robert Picard in those flashbacks really starts to get annoying
if he has to be absent, then please mention where the hell the guy is.

"Your father can root around out there in the dirt while your brother toils away at school."

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Picard's trauma being somekind Jane Eyre-like madness nonsense feels very forced - this is paradise Earth, they would not only have methods to treat Yvette, but also essentially all the means in the world to shield little Jean-Luc from her madder episodes.

It's well-established that Federation medicine can't cure everything; Jean-Luc's own Irumodic Syndrome, for a start. And shielding him from Yvette's unpredictable episodes without separating them entirely isn't a trivial matter.

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

but also because they live in a gigantic chateau where they would have had some staff.

They might live in a chateau, but they're citizens of the Federation, not modern-day capitalists. Why would anyone want to act as their staff?

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

It may have been more interesting to come up with a different childhood story thingy if they felt they needed to have something like that.

Yes, I'm sure "thingy" would have been a much better storyline than what they actually wrote.

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8 hours ago, felice said:

It seemed likely, yes; the big question is why it matters so much to Q.

 

Yes, I'm sure "thingy" would have been a much better storyline than what they actually wrote.

Swear to the gods, if Picard is somehow Q's son or descendant....

 

And while I do not exactly like how LV said it, I'm also not certain we needed such a dive into the character of Picard. It feels...extraneous for a character we've had for nearly 40 years... yes it's a show called Picard, but family trauma fueling his reason for being? I think it was better explored in Generations when it was about legacy and what you leave behind personally. 

 

And I've come to realize the three different aspects of this season, Q, the time travel, and the Borg Queen all.would have likely been better served in three or four episode chunks focused on those aspects, and then use the final episodes to tie it all back together...

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11 hours ago, felice said:

It seemed likely, yes; the big question is why it matters so much to Q.

One idea that one can toss around is that humanity actually develop into the Q Continuum ... the Continuum seem to be timeless, so them popping up all the time does not mean that they are not, originally or technically, from the future.

And perhaps Picard and his line are central to events leading to the evolution of the Qs.

11 hours ago, felice said:

"Your father can root around out there in the dirt while your brother toils away at school."

Oh, I must have overheard that line. I still feel that was an easy and stupid decision to get rid of Robert that way. It could have easily enough worked with him being part of Jean-Luc's childhood trauma.

11 hours ago, felice said:

It's well-established that Federation medicine can't cure everything; Jean-Luc's own Irumodic Syndrome, for a start. And shielding him from Yvette's unpredictable episodes without separating them entirely isn't a trivial matter.

Well, imprisoning your wife in the attic/cellar/whatever is barbaric and impossible behavior in our da any age, it would be much worse behavior in paradise Earth, there is no way around that. I'm not saying that Federation medicine can cure everything, but Yvette Picard's illness seems to resemble well-known present-day mental illnesses like Bipolar disorder. It is not presented as some kind of fancy uncurable syndrome from the future.

And, of course, Maurice is to be blamed for the entire thing for allowing his wife to spend time with his son without supervision. While we can agree that in paradise Earth Yvette might not be forced to accept whatever medical treatment is offered to her ... it would be irresponsible of the people and institutions in this world to allow her to interact with her sons all on her own ... even more in large and apparently very dangerous chateau where you can get yourself killed very easily, apparently.

11 hours ago, felice said:

They might live in a chateau, but they're citizens of the Federation, not modern-day capitalists. Why would anyone want to act as their staff?

Because Jean-Luc later also has a staff at his chateau in his Romulan housekeepers? And because he also seems to employ workers in his vineyard.

11 hours ago, felice said:

Yes, I'm sure "thingy" would have been a much better storyline than what they actually wrote.

I guess I chose my words poorly there, sorry. But it is still kind of ridiculous that Picard would first suffer this kind of childhood trauma and then still have to deal with it in old age ... after he would have had psychological evaluations and therapy throughout his entire career.

Shouldn't he have gotten over that already?

If they wanted to delve into his traumas why not have Locutus still hidden there deep in his brain? Or why not continue to explore established mental issues he had - for instance, the guilt of the survivor he could still feel following the pointless deaths of Robert and René?

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Okay. This session absolutely would have been better served if had been in the it for episode "chapters", each focusing on an aspect of this story... then building to the end.  Right now it feels a little too much when all mixed together...

And the reveal on the FBI guy...? Bah.

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3 hours ago, RumHam said:

I just saw a screenshot of Guinan and realized it's not Goldberg. How does it make sense that she was Goldberg in the 1800's but looks younger in 2024? I guess I should stop asking questions like that.

Because they decided they wanted a physically toned, badass Guinan, and Whoopi ain't it. 

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39 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Because they decided they wanted a physically toned, badass Guinan, and Whoopi ain't it. 

Is that the real reason or a joke? With this current generation of showrunners, I can't tell anymore, lol

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11 hours ago, RumHam said:

I just saw a screenshot of Guinan and realized it's not Goldberg. How does it make sense that she was Goldberg in the 1800's but looks younger in 2024? I guess I should stop asking questions like that.

The new actress is pretty much the same age Whoopi was when she first appeared on TNG, and she certainly shouldn't look older in 2024 than she does in 2365.

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On 4/21/2022 at 5:21 PM, Jaxom 1974 said:

And the reveal on the FBI guy...? Bah.

Sooo they just cast a guy from Voyager and went nowhere with it? He’s just some kid who got mind melded (which was severely frowned upon at the time, as per ENT). 

I’ve totally checked out of this series. I didn’t care about any of this episode; Raffi and Seven are plugging phones into tricorders to track down Jarati, don’t care. Chris and lady doctor are flirting, don’t care. Picard is getting interrogated, and the writers invented a nose-bleed electricity sapping telepathy so Guinan could impart some nonsense and is then IN THE SAME ROOM in the next scene. Ugh. 

What a sorry state Star Trek is in.

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8 hours ago, felice said:

The new actress is pretty much the same age Whoopi was when she first appeared on TNG, and she certainly shouldn't look older in 2024 than she does in 2365.

True, I guess they were doomed to not make much sense either way.

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I didn't expect Picard himself to be the same strong captain he was, he was never really going to do action scenes again, but he's not really showing the wisdom of his years and experiences. Most of the time it seems others have to prod him to say and do what he needs to do, which makes me wonder how this guy served as a captain and then an admiral in Starfleet. And the Q plot just feels off, and they threw Soong in, too, for the hell of it.

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40 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Sooo they just cast a guy from Voyager and went nowhere with it? He’s just some kid who got mind melded (which was severely frowned upon at the time, as per ENT). 

I’ve totally checked out of this series. I didn’t care about any of this episode; Raffi and Seven are plugging phones into tricorders to track down Jarati, don’t care. Chris and lady doctor are flirting, don’t care. Picard is getting interrogated, and the writers invented a nose-bleed electricity sapping telepathy so Guinan could impart some nonsense and is then IN THE SAME ROOM in the next scene. Ugh. 

What a sorry state Star Trek is in.

Honestly, I'm not AS doom and gloom as you are there...but I do think that this cast suffers in that they did not create characters that one can truly care about.  Picard? Yes.  Seven?  Yes.  (Though I dislike the story they gave her through season one...) But Rios? Raffi?  Jarati?  There isn't any chemistry there in the end.  I mean, truly, if Picard were to actually take an Admiral's rank, and then go on and try to save the Romulans, you'd think he'd have his most trusted people by his side, Worf or Geordi at least. Or mix in some other characters from the other shows, like they did with Seven.  Put O'Brien in the Raffi role.  Or Paris or Kim. And it didn't have to be a mish mash of nostalgia.  It could have been furthered by that.  They had the building blocks, but chose to try to create all new.  Is it any wonder they're going to have all of the old cast pretty much back for the last season?  

40 minutes ago, RumHam said:

True, I guess they were doomed to not make much sense either way.

This is actually an area of the show I'm not too concerned to flabble about.  Other than using some de-aging tech on Whoppi, the only other way to use the character was to have another actor in her place.  This is fine to me.  

It's the story that they're telling with her that doesn't make as much sense in canon... 

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6 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Honestly, I'm not AS doom and gloom as you are there...but I do think that this cast suffers in that they did not create characters that one can truly care about.  Picard? Yes.  Seven?  Yes.  (Though I dislike the story they gave her through season one...) But Rios? Raffi?  Jarati?  There isn't any chemistry there in the end.  I mean, truly, if Picard were to actually take an Admiral's rank, and then go on and try to save the Romulans, you'd think he'd have his most trusted people by his side, Worf or Geordi at least. Or mix in some other characters from the other shows, like they did with Seven.  Put O'Brien in the Raffi role.  Or Paris or Kim. And it didn't have to be a mish mash of nostalgia.  It could have been furthered by that.  They had the building blocks, but chose to try to create all new.  Is it any wonder they're going to have all of the old cast pretty much back for the last season?  

This is the crux of it really; what exactly is the point of this show? Who’s character is benefiting? What’s it saying? It’s a half hearted attempt at cobbling together a new crew, which we always knew would last 3 seasons tops and they’ve probably aborted that for the third season now. It’s just a weird addendum to Picard’s character that doesn’t tell us anything new.

6 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

This is actually an area of the show I'm not too concerned to flabble about.  Other than using some de-aging tech on Whoppi, the only other way to use the character was to have another actor in her place.  This is fine to me.  

It's the story that they're telling with her that doesn't make as much sense in canon... 

It’s largely irrelevant that this character is even Guinan, I don’t see what’s wrong with the Goldberg cameo we had and then leave it at that.

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11 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

 

It’s largely irrelevant that this character is even Guinan, I don’t see what’s wrong with the Goldberg cameo we had and then leave it at that.

Yeah.  Goldberg's cameo in episode one set things up fine with the idea of Picard being lonely.  And that's actually something of a story issue that occurs to me now.  Season One we have a Picard that is so devastated by his failure to help the Romulans (and they really should have used a different species there), that he essentially retires for how many years?  Yet, here we are in season two being told that it is his relentless drive and determination to serve that has prevented him from being anything other than alone (which is inherently false, as he has had loves, and is revered by the men and women who served under him). He didn't think to return to the Ba'ku?  Or find Vash?  What about that one science officer from the sixth season...?  In any case, the two seasons we've gotten are seemingly contradicting each other.

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24 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Yeah.  Goldberg's cameo in episode one set things up fine with the idea of Picard being lonely.  And that's actually something of a story issue that occurs to me now.  Season One we have a Picard that is so devastated by his failure to help the Romulans (and they really should have used a different species there), that he essentially retires for how many years?  Yet, here we are in season two being told that it is his relentless drive and determination to serve that has prevented him from being anything other than alone (which is inherently false, as he has had loves, and is revered by the men and women who served under him). He didn't think to return to the Ba'ku?  Or find Vash?  What about that one science officer from the sixth season...?  In any case, the two seasons we've gotten are seemingly contradicting each other.

I get the feeling Alex Kurtzman has no idea that the Romulans were a vast empire, that rivaled the Federation. They weren't some one world race, that would be devastated, if one of their worlds was destroyed. Heck, they probably wouldn't even need the Federations help to evacuate their home world, since they had a pretty massive fleet of their own.

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Just now, sifth said:

I get the feeling Alex Kurtzman has no idea that the Romulans were a vast empire, that rivaled the Federation. They weren't some one world race, that would be devastated, if one of their worlds was destroyed. Heck, they probably wouldn't even need the Federations help to evacuate their home world, since they had a pretty massive fleet of their own.

That and some asinine idea that they needed to somehow tie into/justify the Kelvin timeline...

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1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

This is the crux of it really; what exactly is the point of this show? Who’s character is benefiting? What’s it saying? It’s a half hearted attempt at cobbling together a new crew, which we always knew would last 3 seasons tops and they’ve probably aborted that for the third season now. It’s just a weird addendum to Picard’s character that doesn’t tell us anything new.

It’s largely irrelevant that this character is even Guinan, I don’t see what’s wrong with the Goldberg cameo we had and then leave it at that.

There's some relevance in that she's previously been established as having history with Q, and she's someone Picard would know who'd be around in 21st century Earth, but they do seem to be almost throwing too many things into the show - Guinan, Q, Soong, the Borg Queen, whatever not-Laris is, and so they don't have enough time to properly focus on any of them.

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2 minutes ago, Denvek said:

There's some relevance in that she's previously been established as having history with Q, and she's someone Picard would know who'd be around in 21st century Earth, but they do seem to be almost throwing too many things into the show - Guinan, Q, Soong, the Borg Queen, whatever not-Laris is, and so they don't have enough time to properly focus on any of them.

But from a writing perspective, if you’re mapping out the season, she just buys time before Picard meets the person he actually needs to; Laris. Her past experience with Q hasn’t served the plot (and they’ve invented ‘summoning’ and ‘telepathy’ for some reason) other than half hearted claw hands. What plot point needed solving that a writer suggested “well what if Guinan summons Q but he takes ages and then turns up and says that humans are stuck in the past and that tells Picard that FBI guy has some memory that’s affecting him?” What the fuck train of logic is that? They had to invent El-Aurian telepathy to get this critical message to him? 

Guinan didn’t need to accompany Picard in this episode anymore than any other character did. Why not flesh out this Laris looking person and have her stick around? (I’m kinda nervous that “you are Romulan, maybe an ancestor” is the sum total of explaining we’ll get on why she looks like Laris).

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The thing about Guinan, for me, is the whole part about Picard knowing she was at the exact same bar in 2024 that she'd be at (again) in 2401 (or whatever the hell year it is now...) I mean, did I miss something from the first episode when Picard went and saw Goldberg's Guinan?  

 

(Oh, and for the record, whether it was necessary to have Guinan in 2024, the actress portraying 2024 Guinan is kinda awesome at it...)

Edited by Jaxom 1974
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