Star Trek: Strange New Gorns

[Jaxom 1974]

14 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Chapel is a trained biologist in TOS and only joined Kirk on the five year mission because she hoped she might find her husband-to-be. Once Roger turns out to be a robot she ends up joining the crew permanently.

If they want consistency in SNW (and that's of a course a big 'if') then it can make sense for Chapel to be on the Enterprise for a limited gig, but she cannot really become a proper member of the crew. And so far that seems to be what they are flying with - she is only there because as a liaison because of that science joint venture with Starfleet.

Similarly, I think, the show should also try to figure Kirk's biography in their show, for instance, referencing his time away from Earth on Tarsus IV where he met Kodos and stuff.

 

 

Can't say I remember ANY of that with Chapel, though I remember the basic story of her having a fiance named Corby...I mean, she's a medical doctor by the time the first movie comes about...

And I'm reserving judgement for the Kirk stuff, at the moment...

Edited May 6, 2022 by Jaxom 1974

[Lord Varys]

Just now, Jaxom 1974 said:

Can't say I remember ANY of that with Chapel...I mean, she's a medical doctor by the time the first movie comes about...

And I'm reserving judgement for the Kirk stuff, at the moment...

Rewatch the TOS first season episode 'What Are Little Girls Made Of?' written by Robert Bloch. It is one of my favorites from the first season despite the fact that I misspelled his name - he is actually Dr. Roger Korby.

In the first movie she is indeed a medical doctor in Starfleet, but in TOS it is confirmed that she is a lateral entry employee insofar as Starfleet is concerned - which can help explain why she is a nurse despite her scientific background.

I meant Jim with the Kirk stuff. His brother only has to end up on Deneva in time so he can die there.

[Jaxom 1974]

3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

I meant Jim with the Kirk stuff. His brother only has to end up on Deneva in time so he can die there.

I knew what you mean about Kirk.  There's an opportunity to do things correctly here, in terms of continuity.  Let's see how far this show bends things...

[Lord Varys]

20 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

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Well, it listed 1996 on that document, so that is presumably when the project began. It being 28 years later, he might have been a part of it, might not, but I think they're implying he'd be getting embryos out of the freezer sort of thing.

 

Spoiler

We already had that kind of story with the other Evil Soong back in the fourth season of Enterprise (the arc about the augments), indicating that they don't want to go there again (one hopes). I wonder whether they plan to do something with this, adapt the Eugenics Wars in some fashion. We also had Pike mention them in SNW and we do have an apparent descendant of Khan in SNW as well.

Must say, though, that 'Project Khan' is a silly name. Would adult mad scientists actually use such a childish name? And wasn't Khan Noonien Singh not just one of several genetically engineered madman?

Spock establishes in 'Space Seed' that the Eugenics Wars as such took place in the 1990s, so there should actually be no chance to have them in the 2120s or later ... but if they wanted to retcon things then putting the start of the project which would lead to the wars in the 1990s could make sense.

General thing:

What do you think? Should Star Trek just abandon the silly 'Our present has to be Trek's history' crap?

That has to be constantly retconned. I mean, what are they going to do when World War III doesn't happen? Or when Zefram Cochrane isn't going to be born and the Vulcans don't show up on First Contact Day? It isn't that far away these days.

[sifth]

58 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

  Hide contents

We already had that kind of story with the other Evil Soong back in the fourth season of Enterprise (the arc about the augments), indicating that they don't want to go there again (one hopes). I wonder whether they plan to do something with this, adapt the Eugenics Wars in some fashion. We also had Pike mention them in SNW and we do have an apparent descendant of Khan in SNW as well.

Must say, though, that 'Project Khan' is a silly name. Would adult mad scientists actually use such a childish name? And wasn't Khan Noonien Singh not just one of several genetically engineered madman?

Spock establishes in 'Space Seed' that the Eugenics Wars as such took place in the 1990s, so there should actually be no chance to have them in the 2120s or later ... but if they wanted to retcon things then putting the start of the project which would lead to the wars in the 1990s could make sense.

General thing:

What do you think? Should Star Trek just abandon the silly 'Our present has to be Trek's history' crap?

That has to be constantly retconned. I mean, what are they going to do when World War III doesn't happen? Or when Zefram Cochrane isn't going to be born and the Vulcans don't show up on First Contact Day? It isn't that far away these days.

I always viewed Trek as an alternate history. More as a hopeful story about what humanity could become and the long journey to that point. So yea, keep Trek fictional history in tact.

[Corvinus85]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

 

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Is the whole 'Khan project' epilogue there a hint that Soong might be the one behind the Eugenics Wars? They were in the 1990s, so it shouldn't be the case ... but who knows?

 

Well tying this with what SNW just did

Spoiler

I'd say the timeline of all the major events from the end of the 20th and start of the 21st century have been moved by a few decades. So now the Eugenics Wars will/would have been in the late 2020s maybe.

 

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

General thing:

What do you think? Should Star Trek just abandon the silly 'Our present has to be Trek's history' crap?

That has to be constantly retconned. I mean, what are they going to do when World War III doesn't happen? Or when Zefram Cochrane isn't going to be born and the Vulcans don't show up on First Contact Day? It isn't that far away these days.

Should have read more of your posts before commenting above. Yeah, I was just thinking this, too. Good SF talks about present day social/political stuff by removing it from context and placing it in a different, made up one. So I would say I agree with you, that the Trek timeline shouldn't be modified. Maybe new Trek should be considered a different timeline, where events take place in a different order or year.

[sifth]

Alright, I was rather impressed with the first episode of Strange New Worlds.

Spoiler

Pike saying "no one dies today", almost felt like the writers speaking to the audience to me, because modern Trek is very kill crazy. I was very happy that we got a peaceful resolution, that involved diplomacy. Also the ending was very hopeful and uplifting.

 

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, sifth said:

Alright, I was rather impressed with the first episode of Strange New Worlds.

  Hide contents

Pike saying "no one dies today", almost felt like the writers speaking to the audience to me, because modern Trek is very kill crazy. I was very happy that we got a peaceful resolution, that involved diplomacy. Also the ending was very hopeful and uplifting.

 

I'm actually still flabbergasted that Discovery wasn't what SNW is now. Philippa and Michael could have been and done what they are now - it wouldn't have been hard at all.

Discovery's first season is really crazy.

And all it takes for that is some good lines and a lighter tone. And a decent attempt to recapture the designs of TOS (if you have to have to do it in that era).

[SpaceChampion]

Discovery feels like it was created out of parts of competing ideas that were Frankensteined together. 

[sifth]

11 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

Discovery feels like it was created out of parts of competing ideas that were Frankensteined together. 

There’s also rumors that they completely ripped off the plot of an unfinished video game.

[Corvinus85]

9 minutes ago, sifth said:

There’s also rumors that they completely ripped off the plot of an unfinished video game.

The tardigrade spore drive is what they were accused of ripping off, but I don't believe the lawsuit went anywhere if there was one.

[sifth]

26 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

The tardigrade spore drive is what they were accused of ripping off, but I don't believe the lawsuit went anywhere if there was one.

I recall the ship, uniforms and certain characters being similar to the ones in the game as well. 

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Discovery feels like it was created out of parts of competing ideas that were Frankensteined together. 

Yes, with the weirdo pilot and all that ... but the entire premise so anti Star Trek starting with 'shoot first' and then on to the spore drive nonsense, the drama over Burnham's 'crime', a mirror universe guy masquerading as a Starfleet captain who happens to be the best help in the war, all that martial Klingon stuff, etc.

And while I really like Burnham as the show progresses, turning her into Spock's foster sister whose parents developed super tech was also a little bit much to put it mildly.

But much of what they were doing could have worked in a different era, say, set about 50 years or so prior to TNG (certainly not the Klingon war, but some other war, perhaps, or at least the general attitude).

Just binged most episodes of Prodigy - and that is a truly great show, not just to introduce young audiences to Star Trek but also as a spinoff show to the Voyager stuff. I'm not sure why this is the case, but arcs and character development seem to work much better in cartoon shows these days.

[Macklunkey]

Anson Mount is fantastic.

[sifth]

Part of me is starting to wonder if Star Trek Picard is a vanity project, by Patrick Stewart. I saw most of season 1 and a few clips and reviews of the shows second season and to be perfectly honest, Picard just isn't Picard. It feels like Patrick Stewart is playing Patrick Stewart and not Jean Luc Picard. One review even mentioned how Picard says "hey guys we need to get out of here" being the most anti Picard line he's ever heard before.

[Spockydog]

Picard is a dreadful show. Absolutely shite. Stewart looks like he has been dug up.

 

 

 

[Spockydog]

1 hour ago, sifth said:

Part of me is starting to wonder if Star Trek Picard is a vanity project, by Patrick Stewart. 

Well, seeing as he managed to shoehorn both his dog and his (half his age) wife onto the screen, you're probably right.

[DaveSumm]

2 hours ago, sifth said:

Part of me is starting to wonder if Star Trek Picard is a vanity project, by Patrick Stewart. I saw most of season 1 and a few clips and reviews of the shows second season and to be perfectly honest, Picard just isn't Picard. It feels like Patrick Stewart is playing Patrick Stewart and not Jean Luc Picard. One review even mentioned how Picard says "hey guys we need to get out of here" being the most anti Picard line he's ever heard before.

I’ve seen that talked about a lot, it being a vanity project, but it doesn’t quite fit for me. My understanding was that Stewart initially said no, but then was convinced when he heard what they had planned. Other than being called ‘Picard’ and him being the main character, the actual plot doesn’t really come off as an ego massage for him. If anything it struggles to keep him front and centre, he’s often just there in the thick of things but doesn’t actually contribute that much.

Totally with you on his acting though, none of his old traits from TNG really come across. He’s not bad in it, but he does seem to just be playing himself.

[sifth]

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

I’ve seen that talked about a lot, it being a vanity project, but it doesn’t quite fit for me. My understanding was that Stewart initially said no, but then was convinced when he heard what they had planned. Other than being called ‘Picard’ and him being the main character, the actual plot doesn’t really come off as an ego massage for him. If anything it struggles to keep him front and centre, he’s often just there in the thick of things but doesn’t actually contribute that much.

Totally with you on his acting though, none of his old traits from TNG really come across. He’s not bad in it, but he does seem to just be playing himself.

Just feels weird that there are so many things in this show, that are so anti Picard. I think I read somewhere that he sort of hates playing Picard because the character reminds him of his father. It would certainly explain why the character is suddenly much, much more down to earth.