Dragons of Deceit/Fate

[Lord Patrek]

40 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Given the legal kerfluffle surrounding this new series, I know this book very obviously wasn't put together in a board room... but man, there are parts of it that really feel like a bunch of people sat around a conference table with polling data and said "Lets do this..."

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I have to agree.

[C.T. Phipps]

I basically take an entirely different view of this book and I think it's because of expectations. I feel like the Fifth Age of Dragonlance was a complete artistic failure and had some really nasty decisions (having Usha cheat on Palin while he's being tortured, having Coryn help a man drug and sexually assault a woman to become King of Solamnia, and so on).

I wasn't a fan of the War of Souls either as Mina was such a one-dimensional character and the retcons they tried to make the story make sense again aftrer they wrecked the world in Dragons of Summer Flames. After all, what is the lesson of the gods coming back to only LEAVE AGAIN when they're needed most?

For me, I think it was a very good decision to dial it down from 11 to 1 for this book. It's about a very simple premise: a young woman's grief and the fact she is subject to all of the hardships and troubles of a "normal" woman suffering the aftermath of the War of the Lance. The biggest action sequence here is a minor skirmish with some goblins that is utterly insignificant to everyone but the people who are desperately terrified of it.

Here, the story is kind of a parody of the big epic quests of old and she sort of bumbles her way along from encounter to encounter.

[Jaxom 1974]

12 hours ago, Rhom said:

The thing is… there could have been some good comedy there of a clueless Solamnic caught bouncing from place to place.  But even that wasn’t done…

Soooo...the character is the Forrest Gump of Kyrnn...?

[Lord Patrek]

I agree with what you say to a certain extent.

But Destina is such a fucking dumb character with no substance whatsoever and the plot makes little to no sense.

This is by far the worse Dragonlance book Weis and Hickman have ever written.

[Rhom]

Just now, Jaxom 1974 said:

Soooo...the character is the Forrest Gump of Kyrnn...?

No.  Because that would have been fun to read about.

I generally liked the set up with her.  She was your typical pre-WotL Solamnic that worshiped the Measure and didn't truly understand the Oath.  The early book was slow and a bit dull and uninspired, but it did something I hadn't seen in DragonLance by making the world feel lived in.  It was the next two thirds of the book that introduced the stupidity.

[C.T. Phipps]

22 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said:

I agree with what you say to a certain extent.

But Destina is such a fucking dumb character with no substance whatsoever and the plot makes little to no sense.

This is by far the worse Dragonlance book Weis and Hickman have ever written.

Oh believe me, I understand.

Destina is repeatedly outsmarted by Tasslehoff.

Tasslehoff.

She is quite possibly the dumbest character in the history of fiction.

Alternate ideas to reversing time:

1. Bribing someone (which she tried but didn't work)

2. Killing her cousins (which is better than altering reality)

3. Consulting the Church of Paladin for justice and asking the gods to say what is correct.

4. Trial by combat (Its Solamnia) with her champion.

5. Getting mages to force the truth out of the man.

6. Going back in time and getting a copy made of the deed to her father's castle.

I mean, we go from Zero to 6000 pretty quickly in a plan involving time travel and the Graygem. Which is a bit like acquiring the One Ring of Sauron and using it to get revenge on the Sackville Baggines.

I admit, though, I support Destina as much as I do because she's such a nice contrast to Mina.

It's nice to have a character who is TERRIBLE at all this.

Edited August 17, 2022 by C.T. Phipps

[Rhom]

12 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Which is a bit like acquiring the One Ring of Sauron and using it to get revenge on the Sackville Baggines.

 

[C.T. Phipps]

I do like all of this time travel monkey-business is because Chaos ISNT the omnicidal god of evil he was in Summer Flame.

Spoiler

That was just how he felt then and now he's going to change everything.

Which is a pretty cool twist.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by C.T. Phipps

[Rhom]

Spoiler

I sort of wish that Sturm/Raist showing up somehow interfered with Huma/Magius and the pack of goblins.  

Kill Huma/Magius in the resulting fight and set up to make Sturm/Raistlin the new heroes of the third Dragon War.

 

[Lord Patrek]

Well, if this is what they hope will revive the franchise, I believe they have another think coming. . .

But they probably wanted to shelf that project because of its inherent low quality and stupidity.

[C.T. Phipps]

1 hour ago, Rhom said:

 

I sort of wish that Sturm/Raist showing up somehow interfered with Huma/Magius and the pack of goblins.  

Kill Huma/Magius in the resulting fight and set up

That could be where they're going!

 

[Lord Patrek]

You can read my review here.

Save your hard-earned dough and if interested wait till the ebook is on sale for like 1.99$. . .

[Gigei]

Oh dear it sounds dire, but I know I'm going to read it anyway!

[Jussi]

Next book in the series, Dragons of Fate, will be published in August 2023:

https://www.amazon.com/Dragons-Fate-Dragonlance-Destinies-2/dp/1984819380

Blurb:

Spoiler

A courageous heroine trapped in the distant past is determined to return to her own time—without changing the shape of the world forever—as the New York Times bestselling Dragonlance series continues in the thrilling sequel to Dragons of Deceit.

A clash of powerful magical forces sets off the Graygem of Gargath, sending Destina and her companions deeper into the past than she intended—to the age of Huma Dragonsbane and the Third Dragon War. Now, after the Device of Time Journeying shatters, they must find another way back to their own era, before the Graygem alters history irrevocably and the Third Dragon War ends in defeat for the forces of good.

With the battle raging on, Destina tries desperately to make amends and prevent disaster. Raistlin and Sturm encounter their heroes, Huma and Magius, and must reconcile the myths with the men. Meanwhile, Tasslehoff—shocked that the Knights of Solamnia have never heard of dragonlances—sets out to find the famed weapons.

But as the forces of the Dark Queen close in on the High Clerist’s Tower, Destina’s party must return to their own timeline together—or not at all.

 

[Rhom]

Doesn't matter... I'm going to read it regardless.  I know this and it makes me sad.

[Lord Patrek]

6 hours ago, Rhom said:

Doesn't matter... I'm going to read it regardless.  I know this and it makes me sad.

I'm hoping I'll be able to show some self-control!

[C.T. Phipps]

DRAGONS OF DESTINY is something I think that needs to be read as sort of an antithesis to the War of Souls. Whereas that was an attempt to recapture the Chronicle/Legends energy, this is a book that is just a kind of silly tribute to the setting. Destina is an absolute dunderhead as a protagonist once she leaves Solamnia and her antics kind of make fun of the kind of epic fantasy that we're used to.

Sort of like Taz.

[Rhom]

I just finished Dragons of Fate (and edited the topic accordingly).

Given that Dragons of Deceit was one of the worst books I've read and completed, it wasn't a high bar for Dragons of Fate to improve.  However, I will give credit where credit is due.  It is far better.  Still not comparable to the modern standards of fantasy, but much closer to the spirit of the original books.  (But without the scope and nostalgia they had.)

For the non-spoiler parts.

First gripe, cover art is still terrible.  Again, Larry Elmore is still alive and it is inexcusable to bring back W&H but not have him draw the cover.

Second gripe, the book spends the first two or three chapters entirely recapping the first one.  I understand (but didn't like) doing that in DoD for the books that were written 30 years ago, but the predecessor to this book was released a year ago.  There were a couple of other parts that also provided exposition on bits of lore and such that still felt unnecessary, but were thankfully kept to a paragraph or two.

First major praise, Destina Rosethorn's role is vastly reduced.  She was easily the worst part of the first book.  In this book, she really has no part to play and therefore is not part of the nonsensical set up that plagued the first.

Second major praise, the story moves.  There does not seem to be pacing issues with the book like the first.

Third praise, compared to the first book, OG characters have a much better grasp on their voice.  Tas feels much more like Tas in this book and not the idiotic caricature he was in the first. 

In the end, it was a decent book that shines in comparison to its predecessor.  The end of the book suitably sets up a very interesting hook for the concluding volume of the trilogy.

Now for the spoilery parts.

Spoiler

When I say that Destina plays no part, I mean she literally has maybe 50 pages of screen time total in a 360 page book.  That's much to the improvement of the book, but also makes the addition of her as a character little more than a Macguffin.  

Similarly, I don't really know what Sturm was doing there.  I suppose he was always a boring character who served to stand around and look... well... stern.  But that's about all he does here as well.

This book was the Magius and Raistlin show.  I did like how Magius was presented and the feelings that it produced in Raist and the regret for his own actions that he began to feel.  However, that was one point of the time travel plot that was very non-sensical to me.  Sturm and Raistlin had their memories up to the point of their death while in their bodies from the beginning of Autumn Twilight... but without their skills.  So Raistlin remembers being a wizard with enough power to supplant a deity, but can't remember how to do it... except for the moment in the story when the plot demands that he does.    Every fantasy or SciFi book has the absolute right to define how they handle time travel... but as readers, we have the right to decide if it makes sense to us... and this one doesn't to me.

The climax of the book with the Murder in the Cathedral and subsequent "What If?" style drop into Solace with Blue Dragonarmy Caramon and black robe Raistlin (who remembers everything) gives me a legit interest in what comes next.  

Overall, the book was an okay piece of fluff fantasy in the spirit of the genre from 30 years ago.  Its not great.  By no means would I even say its "good" to someone who has not grown up on Dragonlance.  But for those of us who did, it does give us a much better taste in our mouth than DoD and I would say the ending hook is promising enough to read this one and the next.

 

[Lord Patrek]

Got offered an ARC and turned it down. Not reading this one, period.

[Rhom]

18 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said:

Got offered an ARC and turned it down. Not reading this one, period.

Understandable.

Guess I’m just a glutton for punishment!

Edited August 11, 2023 by Rhom