Dany and Charles of Valois

[Lord Varys]

10 hours ago, SeanF said:

Slave soldiers are such a stupid idea that you wonder why anyone would use them.  How idiotic is it to put weapons into the hands of those you brutalise?  And, yet, they have been quite a common feature in the Islamic world.  Unsurprisingly, Mamelukes, Janissaries, and Ghilmans developed a loyalty to their comrades that transcended any loyalty to their masters, and seized power in their own right.

Well, I guess the Volantene system still worked somehow, perhaps because it developed in Valyrian times. And we don't know if the tiger soldiers are brutalized all that much. They are not Unsullied, after all, and it is possibly that they are privileged elite slaves who are treated very well. But so far we don't know anything about them. One could imagine, perhaps, that a tiger soldier is only a slave for, say, 10-20 service years, and then has a chance to be freed and become an officer in the army and/or become a free citizen of Volantis. That way the system could work.

What we do know, however, is that their religious faith - R'hllorism - is a potential problem for their loyalty not so much the fact that slaves are not treated all that kindly by their masters. So far George sends the message that Benerro declaring Daenerys a religious icon is what might turn the tiger soldiers to rebel/refuse to attack Meereen.

2 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I wonder what things are like in Lys, Myr, Tyrosh and Norvos.

In the Three Daughters slavery is also a crucial part of the culture, but the ratio is not as bad as in Volantis - in Volantis you have five slaves for every free citizen whereas in the Three Daughters it is three slaves for every free citizen.

That said - FaB confirmed for Lys that they have a standing military and are not solely dependent on sellswords and sellsails. One imagines that it is similar in Myr and Tyrosh.

And while the bulk of the Volantene soldiers seem to be the tiger slave soldiers ... one expects that they also have contingents of free soldiers who joined the army, especially among the officers.

2 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Does Yi-Ti have a slave culture?

It looks like it, but we have no details about that.

[BlackLightning]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

In the Three Daughters slavery is also a crucial part of the culture, but the ratio is not as bad as in Volantis - in Volantis you have five slaves for every free citizen whereas in the Three Daughters it is three slaves for every free citizen.

That said - FaB confirmed for Lys that they have a standing military and are not solely dependent on sellswords and sellsails. One imagines that it is similar in Myr and Tyrosh.

And while the bulk of the Volantene soldiers seem to be the tiger slave soldiers ... one expects that they also have contingents of free soldiers who joined the army, especially among the officers.

So that means that Dany is going to have to fight a more traditional war against the likes of Lys, Myr and Tyrosh.

She can't cross the Narrow Sea (at least not from the southern half of Essos) without addressing the Triarchy problem. The Triarchy and most other things associated with it (i.e. Tyroshi pirates, Lyseni politicians) has bitten the Targaryens in the ass on more than one occasion.

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

It looks like it, but we have no details about that.

If GRRM's goal is for Dany to scourge and purge the Known World of slavery, then we probably will get some details.

Do I think Dany is going to go to YiTi? I think that might've been a desire or a consideration but no...not enough time. I think YiTi will go to her.

 

[Lord Varys]

41 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

So that means that Dany is going to have to fight a more traditional war against the likes of Lys, Myr and Tyrosh.

I expect that Dany freeing the Volantene slaves will trigger slave uprisings in the other Free Cities as well ... but the Three Daughters may be able to crush them for the time being with the help of their sellswords. I also expect that the Three Daughters will eventually form a Euron-led coalition against Daenerys - or at least Tyrosh and Lys will, since they are based on islands. Myr can be taken by the Dothraki, just like Pentos and Norvos and Qohor can.

The only way to try to stop her will be at sea. If she gets the Dothraki she will be unstoppable with conventional means on land (then only the Others would stand a chance, and they only if they have truly gigantic armies of wights), so if we see her facing serious opposition it will have to be at sea.

41 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

If GRRM's goal is for Dany to scourge and purge the Known World of slavery, then we probably will get some details.

Do I think Dany is going to go to YiTi? I think that might've been a desire or a consideration but no...not enough time. I think YiTi will go to her.

I don't think Dany will go to Yi Ti nor do I expect the YiTish to bother with her. Dany might return to Qarth, though. I think she has to, in the wake of what Xaro pulled at Meereen. Drogon will make her much more mobile and once she has the Dothraki she can send out multiple khalasars in different directions.