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Viserys's Gift


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22 hours ago, Groo said:

It was all a lie from the beginning. The Dothraki go around demanding tribute from people and sacking their cities if they don't pay enough. So here comes Khal Drogo to Pentos with one of the largest khalasars seen in a long time. Why do you think he was there? The magisters are showering him with gifts and looking to pay him off so he'll take his khalasar and go. Look at how Illyrio tries to downplay all this with Viserys and Daenerys.

"It is not that we fear these barbarians," Illyrio would explain with a smile. "The Lord of LIght would hold our city walls against a million Dothraki, or so the red priests promise . . . yet why take chances, when their friendship comes so cheap?"

Daenerys is just one of the gifts being offered up to Drogo and Illyrio is stringing Viserys along making him think he's actually doing Viserys some great service here. Marrying Daenerys to Drogo is actually doubly convenient for Illyrio. She's an attractive gift that doesn't actually cost him anything and it safely gets Daenerys out of the way and far from the Seven Kingdoms before it's time to bring out fAegon.

On a side note, Illyrio kept telling Viserys not to go with Drogo but Viserys insisted. I'm sure Illyrio was concerned about Viserys potentially irritating and pissing Drogo off when the whole point was to placate Drogo and get him to go away happy. Also, Illyrio couldn't be sure how Drogo would react if Viserys kept running his mouth off about this supposed deal that didn't really exist.

It would be the funniest thing ever if Illyrio just lied to both Viserys and the Golden Copany.

 

 

On 4/8/2022 at 2:37 PM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

1. Did Drogo promise anything? If so what? 

2. Did Drogo even know Viserys expected an army or a crown? 

3. What was in this for Illyrio? 

 

  1. He promised a crown, likely, but not Westeros's. I think he'd conquer any Essosi kingdom and call it a day-
  2. Likely he did, not that it mattered.
  3. I think that Illyrio always wanted Dany dead in order to spur Drogo into action, in Aegon's instead.

 

 

On 4/8/2022 at 5:01 PM, Springwatch said:

Like you say, Drogo isn't going to hand over his khalassar. But he could conquer Westeros (with much kudos and booty to him), and 'gift' Viserys the Iron Throne afterwards. That's how he thinks:

Both Ned and Drogo himself made it plain clear that Dothraki weren't into the sailing business.

 

 

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On 4/8/2022 at 2:37 PM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

1. Did Drogo promise anything? If so what? 

2. Did Drogo even know Viserys expected an army or a crown? 

3. What was in this for Illyrio? 

1. I think  Drogo did promise a gift in return, the icing on the  cake,  so  to speak  but I'll come  to that later. Drogo had already paid Illyrio for his part in negotiating the deal with Viserys to claim Daenerys as his wife:

Quote

“I shall treasure them always.” Dany had heard tales of such eggs, but she had never seen one, nor thought to see one. It was a truly magnificent gift, though she knew that Illyrio could afford to be lavish. He had collected a fortune in horses and slaves for his part in selling her to Khal Drogo. 

The fortune in slaves and horses could only have come from Khal Drogo. So no, Drogo probably did not know that Viserys expected a crown or an army as the price for his sister and Illyrio knew it too, it was never part of the deal. Viserys was supposed to stay put. Illyrio never planned for him to join the Khalasar because he knew full well that Viserys would nag at the Khal to fulfill  a commitment that did not exist. And nag he did. The deception may have come to light if both had spoken a common language but that was not the case. It was left to Daenerys to try convicing her husband but Drogo failed to see why he should cross the poison seas for an "iron chair." After the horse heart eating ceremony and birth of his sone, Drogo planned to take his Khalasar east, much to Dany's despair:

Quote

“You must talk to my lord husband,” Dany said. “Drogo says the stallion who mounts the world will have all the lands of the earth to rule, and no need to cross the poison water. He talks of leading his khalasar east after Rhaego is born, to plunder the lands around the Jade Sea.”

Drogo's world was Essos. He saw no reason to cross the poison water, neither did he think his prophesized son needed to undertake that journey. In fact, when Drogo does make the decision to invade Westeros, he does so to avenge the attempt on his wife's life and pledges to gift the Iron Throne to his son Rhaego. My take on these events is that Drogo had no idea he was supposed to provide an army  and Viserys was duped by Illyrio regarding Drogo's army. I don't think Illyrio ever intended for the Dothraki to cross the narrow sea. He had Aegon for that, lined up to take the throne sometime in the future. But I do think he hoped the dragon eggs he gifted Daenerys would hatch and it is heavily suggested that he was familiar with the various legends and prophecys surrounding "waking dragons from stone."

I also think both Drogo and Illyrio had mutual interests regarding the two prophecies (Azor Ahai / waking dragons from stone and the stallion who mounts the world.) Let's look at Drogo first. We only hear of the Stallion who Mounts the World when the dosh khaleen proclaim the child after Daenerys passes the test of eating a horse's heart raw. This is supposed to infuse the child with strength. I doubt that every wife of a khal must undergo this ordeal. This appears to be a special ritual tied to the prophecy, or at least to an expected great leader. The Dothraki follow strength, we are told. A khal must prove his worth. They do not practice primogeniture but in this case it appears to be accepted, indeed, expected by the dosh khaleen at least, and by Drogo. It seems to me the khal wanted a suitable bride to father his young stallion on, not any woman from the Dothraki population. Perhaps the prophecy included rough guidelines on the perfect woman, or perhaps Illyrio convinced Drogo of Daenarys' exquisite bloodline. Drogo treated his wife "gently." He respected her, indulged her wishes, which clashed with the beliefs of his people. He defended her. And for a people who enjoyed free sexuality, he was remarkably true to her. We never hear of Drogo bedding other women, he never shared her with his bloodriders. He called her by an endearment. He loved her and never cheated on her, certainly wasn't wasting his seed on other women. That means something. 

It is my understanding that Illyrio was conviced of Dany's special blood. When she presents herself after dressing to meet the Khal, Illyrio is positively enthralled by her looks.

"Regal" he calls her, and "a vision" twice over. Then:

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“Look at her. That silver-gold hair, those purple eyes … she is the blood of old Valyria, no doubt, no doubt … and highborn, daughter of the old king, sister to the new, she cannot fail to entrance our Drogo.”

Inbetween this we get a description of him and he blesses her in the name of the Lord of Light.

Quote

Beneath loose garments of flame-colored silk, rolls of fat jiggled as he walked. Gemstones glittered on every finger, and his man had oiled his forked yellow beard until it shone like real gold.May the Lord of Light shower you with blessings on this most fortunate day, Princess Daenerys,” the magister said as he took her hand.

So Illyrio is a follower of the Lord of Light, wearing flame-coloured garments for the occasion. The gemstones on his fingers should put us in mind of the Great Empire of the Dawn, then most likely located at present day Asshai, the apparent origin of the Azor Ahai prophecy and also the place from where the forgotton people who taught the Valyrians dragonlore came from. That Illyrio knows of the prophecy and perhaps more details than others is plausible. The dragon eggs were not simply an expensive gift to the bride. Why not give them to Aegon and see if they would hatch for him? Because I think Illyrio was party to knowledge that others did not have. I'm quite certain that it required a newborn baby (or one in the womb) to activate the spark of life in the fossilized dragon eggs. Daenerys provided the external conditions but her unborn baby activated the eggs. Perhaps I'll write up a post on the details. 

Anyway, Illyrio thought the chances of Daenerys succeeding where others had failed were high. The fact that Jorah suggests Asshai as a destination after Drogo dies and before the dragons are born is also interesting. Jorah was probably not party to Illyrio's plans but it is possible he was instructed by Illyrio to take Daenerys to Asshai, should anything go wrong. Asshai of course being a place of dark magic and one source of the prophecy. 

So what of Drogo? A statement by Mirri Maz Duur leads me to believe that Drogo also hoped for the birth of dragons:

Quote

“The stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar shall trample no nations into dust.”

And:

Quote

A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

It seems the stallion who mounts the world is expected  to burn cities. This can be done by other means, for sure, but why, when you can burn cities mounted high above the world,  riding a dragon?

Now to answer the first and last questions: Did Drogo promise anything, if so what?

Drogo would have promised Illyrio a dragon, should any be hatched. Daenerys was his wife. Whatever belonged to her also belonged to him. This would be his future gift. And a dragon would be most useful to Illyrio and his plans for Aegon's conquering of Westeros. Aegon would conquer with at least one dragon. Unfortunately things did not go as planned. Events in Westeros progressed much faster than anticipated and all carefully laid plans changed. 

 

And a thought @Seams

23 hours ago, Seams said:

Others with king's blood died in attempts to hatch dragon eggs. Was there some aspect of the death of Viserys that was done "correctly" while the other Targaryen deaths were not quite right to trigger the hatching?

It seems to me the aspect of a bloodless death is important. No blood was allowed to flow in Vaes Dothrak and Viserys died a bloodless death. Drogo also died a bloodless death as presumably did Rhaego who was killed in the womb. I also think that the deaths of Lord Rickard and Brandon are meant to show this. Death by roasting and strangling with a special device. No blood was shed and there's the tiny link between the gold melting off Lord Rickard's spurs and the melted gold crown of Viserys tieing the two events together. Perhaps Aerys was trying to hatch a dragon, who knows? 

 

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On 4/8/2022 at 8:37 AM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

My questions to you are:

1. Did Drogo promise anything? If so what? 

2. Did Drogo even know Viserys expected an army or a crown? 

3. What was in this for Illyrio? 

1.  Drogo would put Viserys on the iron throne of his father.  The Dothraki will do that but on a time which they themselves determine.   

2.  Yes

3.  To set the world to its proper state.  To put the exiled king Viserys on his father's throne is a way of sorting things.  The plot also builds a monarchy over the Dothraki when the future children of Drogo and Dany have grown.  

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On 4/8/2022 at 9:57 PM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Yeah, the eggs mess things up a bit. I think he either never thought in a million years those eggs would hatch or was trying to create a situation in which they would because he has plans for Dany too. 

I said to another poster, I don't think the plan was just to get rid of them both, maybe V but not both, else why the elaborate set up? Why not just kill them when they are under his roof?

Well he did say outright to Tyrion that he thought she would die among the Dothraki. V couldn't have been the plan though or else Illyrio would have worked harder to keep him back in Pentos while the Khalssar headed to VD.  He says little enough to Tyrion about V other than he could have ruined years of planning if he raped Dany before her wedding night as he intended. So it seems that getting himself killed before turning west didn't hurt any of Illyrio's plans.

Could the ceremony have been the thing for Illyrio? After the wedding he demonstrates his indifference to both D and V by leaving them among people he believes will kill them. We learn later that he already has a plan (f)A but like you say he could have killed them without involving Drogo. Could he have had need or reason to divest himself of the dragon eggs themselves? Could D and V have been deliberate blood sacrifices toward this or some other end and the wedding was cover for necessary ritual?

Was he lying to Tyrion later and we're seeing some retcon ripples? Sometimes I think this is the easiest answer to Illyrio's mysteries, but I hope the author can pull together something a little better than that.

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On 4/8/2022 at 3:47 PM, Seams said:

Drogo promising to provide a crown for Viserys is an important clue. Every "king" who is crowned tends to die soon. Renly crowns himself. Robb Stark's bannermen hear about Renly's crown and insist that Robb be crowned as well. Both Renly and Robb die fairly soon. Baelon Greyjoy decides to be a king again and he is soon dead. Joffrey is crowned shortly before his wedding feast.

Why did the Targaryens manage to live for years as crowned monarchs? Why did Robert Baratheon rule as the crowned king for many years? I can only guess that there are true kings who can survive being crowned. (Although Robert tells Ned that he felt alive before taking the throne and dead afterward.) Or maybe there is another element of the magic recipe that allows a king to survive being crowned and we need more examples to figure out why some die and some survive.

Joffrey gives us clues that might help us to understand the gift that Drogo gave to Viserys:

So Viserys is compared to Robb Stark. Joffrey tells us that the gold crown (equivalent to gold coins known as dragons) killed Viserys. He jokes that this would be like a wolf killing Robb Stark. He also says he wants Sansa to eat Robb's head. Oddly, I think this is most like the Martell family meal after the head of Gregor Clegane is sent to them in Dorne: "For the sweet, each guest was served a skull of spun sugar. When the crust was broken, they found sweet custard inside and bits of plum and cherry" (ADwD, The Watcher).

After Joffrey's descriptions of his wishes for Robb's head, we read that the Freys put a crown on Robb Stark's beheaded direwolf. Wait, crowning the dead wolf doesn't quite sound like the same thing as Viserys being crowned with molten gold. Readers know that Robb's direwolf is named Grey Wind. Have the Freys just crowned the wind of winter by crowning Robb's direwolf? If so, big mistake; huge.

Maybe the crowning of the wolf is not so different, however, from the crowning of Viserys. Dany's brother repeatedly claims that he is the dragon that she does not want to wake. Could the "crowning" of Viserys be the equivalent of "waking" him?

I think it is. And I think this explains what Illyrio is doing as he manipulates the circumstances surrounding Dany.

Illyrio is playing in the real-world Game of Thrones. His strategy for winning is to have his game pieces hatch some dragon eggs. We don't know why the hatching works for Illyrio's game pieces, after so many years when others attempted and failed to hatch the eggs. In other POVs, we do hear that king's blood is an ingredient for some kinds of magic, however. Could it be that crowning / killing Viserys was part of Illyrio's plan all along? Others with king's blood died in attempts to hatch dragon eggs. Was there some aspect of the death of Viserys that was done "correctly" while the other Targaryen deaths were not quite right to trigger the hatching?

In addition to king's blood and a sigil-appropriate "crowning," it seems that a cracked moon/egg is necessary for dragons to hatch. Even though Drogo calls Dany the moon of his life, it seems that he is the one who dies after Dany kisses him, releasing the dragons in the pyre.

The thing that's in this for Illyrio is that he is playing a massive game of cyvasse against other master players such as Tywin, Bloodraven, Prince Doran and (possibly) Walder Frey. Illyrio wants to win the game. Maybe he will get another ring as a trophy. Tyrion comes into the orbit of Illyrio, however, and Tyrion is really good at playing cyvasse. When Tywin dies, I think Tyrion takes his place at the gaming table. Illyrio may have met his match, in spite of his opening gambit of hatching dragons. After all, Tyrion writes the book on dragons.

I agree, having a crown seems a very unhealthy thing in Westeros. Maybe something to do with the blood of old Valyria allows the Targs, & to a lesser degree, Robert to rule without dying?  Robert had a smidgen of it so maybe that's why he managed to rule a while? Also maybe why Targs we're so obsessed with keeping the line pure? 

Huge mistake indeed. 

I agree Viserys death must've had something to do with the hatching but don't know how Illyrio would have been able to ensure V's death was done "correctly" 

 

I agree about Tyrion, I'm excited to see where his journey takes us

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On 4/8/2022 at 3:49 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

King V was promised to get the services of an army in return. The moment was just not right. Drogo was chasing prophecy and has his own ambition to bring all khalasars under the leadership of the future son. There were formalities he had to follow like the pilgrimage to Vaes Dothrak to present his Targaryen wife to the crones. The 7 kingdoms was on his checklist to do though.  King V was getting his army if only he had been patient.  
 

Drogo was already planning for the Stallion. He had long term goals. Rhaego would have been powerful with all of the khalasars under his thumb and Uncle V sitting on the throne of Westeros. 

Sure he was promised by Illyrio but I don't think Drogo was privvy to this promise. We don't really have much evidence to suggest Drogo was chasing prophesies, did he even know about the prophecy before the dosh khaleen said it? 

I agree he had formalities to go thru but there is no indication from Drogo that the 7k was on his checklist, in fact we know it wasn't & that he only agreed to it after the attempt on Dany's life, V was already dead at this point. Had he already had it in mind to do it, when Dany was trying to convince him to take the 7k, it wouldn't have taken much convincing right? 

Second problem, as I stated in the OP, a Dothraki army cannot be "gifted" they aren't slaves & they don't follow who they are told to, they follow strength, something Viserys was sorely lacking in. 

 

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On 4/9/2022 at 12:56 AM, Groo said:

can't image Illyrio or anyone else thought the eggs would ever hatch. Obviously, he would never have given them away if he thought that could happen. If you assume they won't hatch then they're just another rare and valuable object. I mean that in the sense that they would be like an exquisite jewel, or rare tapestry, or exotic animal. These are all valuable but everything has a price tag, especially for rich powerful people

I don't know, Illyrio was hip to the prophecy, I think there was a very real chance he knew it was possible for them to hatch. 

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23 hours ago, frenin said:
  • He promised a crown, likely, but not Westeros's. I think he'd conquer any Essosi kingdom and call it a day-
  • Likely he did, not that it mattered.
  • I think that Illyrio always wanted Dany dead in order to spur Drogo into action, in Aegon's instead

Why though? Why would he promise Viserys a crown? He certainly didn't intend on taking the 7k & no way he planned on "crowning" V the way he did. Did he think he could just give V a trinket? 

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22 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The "Gift" is not what is normally considered a present.  It is rather an obligation.  So yes.  The Dothraki would do as they had promised to do: deliver Westeros to Viserys.  Drogo's khalasar will have increased in size and given more than 10K men to the job. 

I disagree. I agree the Dothraki would stay true to their word but I don't think it's possible he promised to deliver the 7k. If he had why did he act like the idea was so absurd when Dany suggested it after V's death? 

Also, his khalasar is already 40,000 strong. Viserys was just musing that he could take the 7k with 10,000. 

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21 hours ago, Evolett said:

I think  Drogo did promise a gift in return, the icing on the  cake,  so  to speak  but I'll come  to that later. Drogo had already paid Illyrio for his part in negotiating the deal with Viserys to claim Daenerys as his wife

I agree he promised a gift, that's the Dothraki way. Also agreed to Illyrio. Drogo likely believed he had already paid his price for her. 

21 hours ago, Evolett said:

1. I think  Drogo did promise a gift in return, the icing on the  cake,  so  to speak  but I'll come  to that later. Drogo had already paid Illyrio for his part in negotiating the deal with Viserys to claim Daenerys as his wife:

The fortune in slaves and horses could only have come from Khal Drogo. So no, Drogo probably did not know that Viserys expected a crown or an army as the price for his sister and Illyrio knew it too, it was never part of the deal. Viserys was supposed to stay put. Illyrio never planned for him to join the Khalasar because he knew full well that Viserys would nag at the Khal to fulfill  a commitment that did not exist. And nag he did. The deception may have come to light if both had spoken a common language but that was not the case. It was left to Daenerys to try convicing her husband but Drogo failed to see why he should cross the poison seas for an "iron chair." After the horse heart eating ceremony and birth of his sone, Drogo planned to take his Khalasar east, much to Dany's despair:

Drogo's world was Essos. He saw no reason to cross the poison water, neither did he think his prophesized son needed to undertake that journey. In fact, when Drogo does make the decision to invade Westeros, he does so to avenge the attempt on his wife's life and pledges to gift the Iron Throne to his son Rhaego. My take on these events is that Drogo had no idea he was supposed to provide an army  and Viserys was duped by Illyrio regarding Drogo's army. I don't think Illyrio ever intended for the Dothraki to cross the narrow sea. He had Aegon for that, lined up to take the throne sometime in the future. But I do think he hoped the dragon eggs he gifted Daenerys would hatch and it is heavily suggested that he was familiar with the various legends and prophecys surrounding "waking dragons from stone."

I also think both Drogo and Illyrio had mutual interests regarding the two prophecies (Azor Ahai / waking dragons from stone and the stallion who mounts the world.) Let's look at Drogo first. We only hear of the Stallion who Mounts the World when the dosh khaleen proclaim the child after Daenerys passes the test of eating a horse's heart raw. This is supposed to infuse the child with strength. I doubt that every wife of a khal must undergo this ordeal. This appears to be a special ritual tied to the prophecy, or at least to an expected great leader. The Dothraki follow strength, we are told. A khal must prove his worth. They do not practice primogeniture but in this case it appears to be accepted, indeed, expected by the dosh khaleen at least, and by Drogo. It seems to me the khal wanted a suitable bride to father his young stallion on, not any woman from the Dothraki population. Perhaps the prophecy included rough guidelines on the perfect woman, or perhaps Illyrio convinced Drogo of Daenarys' exquisite bloodline. Drogo treated his wife "gently." He respected her, indulged her wishes, which clashed with the beliefs of his people. He defended her. And for a people who enjoyed free sexuality, he was remarkably true to her. We never hear of Drogo bedding other women, he never shared her with his bloodriders. He called her by an endearment. He loved her and never cheated on her, certainly wasn't wasting his seed on other women. That means something. 

It is my understanding that Illyrio was conviced of Dany's special blood. When she presents herself after dressing to meet the Khal, Illyrio is positively enthralled by her looks.

"Regal" he calls her, and "a vision" twice over. Then:

Inbetween this we get a description of him and he blesses her in the name of the Lord of Light.

So Illyrio is a follower of the Lord of Light, wearing flame-coloured garments for the occasion. The gemstones on his fingers should put us in mind of the Great Empire of the Dawn, then most likely located at present day Asshai, the apparent origin of the Azor Ahai prophecy and also the place from where the forgotton people who taught the Valyrians dragonlore came from. That Illyrio knows of the prophecy and perhaps more details than others is plausible. The dragon eggs were not simply an expensive gift to the bride. Why not give them to Aegon and see if they would hatch for him? Because I think Illyrio was party to knowledge that others did not have. I'm quite certain that it required a newborn baby (or one in the womb) to activate the spark of life in the fossilized dragon eggs. Daenerys provided the external conditions but her unborn baby activated the eggs. Perhaps I'll write up a post on the details. 

Anyway, Illyrio thought the chances of Daenerys succeeding where others had failed were high. The fact that Jorah suggests Asshai as a destination after Drogo dies and before the dragons are born is also interesting. Jorah was probably not party to Illyrio's plans but it is possible he was instructed by Illyrio to take Daenerys to Asshai, should anything go wrong. Asshai of course being a place of dark magic and one source of the prophecy. 

So what of Drogo? A statement by Mirri Maz Duur leads me to believe that Drogo also hoped for the birth of dragons:

And:

It seems the stallion who mounts the world is expected  to burn cities. This can be done by other means, for sure, but why, when you can burn cities mounted high above the world,  riding a dragon?

Now to answer the first and last questions: Did Drogo promise anything, if so what?

Drogo would have promised Illyrio a dragon, should any be hatched. Daenerys was his wife. Whatever belonged to her also belonged to him. This would be his future gift. And a dragon would be most useful to Illyrio and his plans for Aegon's conquering of Westeros. Aegon would conquer with at least one dragon. Unfortunately things did not go as planned. Events in Westeros progressed much faster than anticipated and all carefully laid plans changed. 

 

And a thought @Seams

It seems to me the aspect of a bloodless death is important. No blood was allowed to flow in Vaes Dothrak and Viserys died a bloodless death. Drogo also died a bloodless death as presumably did Rhaego who was killed in the womb. I also think that the deaths of Lord Rickard and Brandon are meant to show this. Death by roasting and strangling with a special device. No blood was shed and there's the tiny link between the gold melting off Lord Rickard's spurs and the melted gold crown of Viserys tieing the two events together. Perhaps Aerys was trying to hatch a dragon, who knows? 

 

The quoting is not working on my phone.

Very nice.  If you're correct in that Illyrio expected to get a dragon out of the deal, from Aegon that lends credence to the idea Aegon is real because surely Illyrio would not expect a fake to be able to ride a dragon? 

What though did he expect of the other two? If Dany is in possession of the other 2 it's her Illyrio needs, unless maybe Aegon has Drogon. Likely he expected the two to wed. 

I would be quite interested in reading your thoughts on the conditions needing met to hatch eggs, so if you get around to doing it, please tag me. 

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On 4/8/2022 at 11:51 PM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Interesting. So you think maybe Drogo knew something of the prophecy before the dosh khaleen said it? 

Possibly.  I also question how invested Illyrio was in the prophecy.  Frey Family Reunion pointed this tidbit out a while back:

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys I

They stepped past the eunuch into a pillared courtyard overgrown in pale ivy. Moonlight painted the leaves in shades of bone and silver as the guests drifted among them. Many were Dothraki horselords, big men with red-brown skin, their drooping mustachios bound in metal rings, their black hair oiled and braided and hung with bells. Yet among them moved bravos and sellswords from Pentos and Myr and Tyrosh, a red priest even fatter than Illyrio, hairy men from the Port of Ibben, and lords from the Summer Isles with skin as black as ebony. Daenerys looked at them all in wonder … and realized, with a sudden start of fear, that she was the only woman there.

 

Is Moqorro the red priest?  If so, he is there at Illyrio's invitation. 

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys I

The nine-towered manse of Khal Drogo sat beside the waters of the bay, its high brick walls overgrown with pale ivy. It had been given to the khal by the magisters of Pentos, Illyrio told them. The Free Cities were always generous with the horselords. "It is not that we fear these barbarians," Illyrio would explain with a smile. "The Lord of Light would hold our city walls against a million Dothraki, or so the red priests promise … yet why take chances, when their friendship comes so cheap?"

 

So Illyrio is buying their "friendship" with marriage and I suspect he is a deep insider of Red Rahloo.  Who knows what Benerro saw in his fires.  The office of Magister has religious connotations:

 
Quote

 

mag·is·te·ri·um
 
NOUN
magisterium (noun)
  1. the teaching authority of the Roman Catholic Church, especially as exercised by bishops or the Pope.
    • the official and authoritative teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.
 
ORIGIN
late 16th century (in the alchemical senses ‘master principle of nature’, ‘substance capable of changing the nature of other substances’): Latin, ‘the office of master’, from magister (see magister). The senses relating to the teaching and authority of the Roman Catholic Church date from the mid 19th century.

 

 
 
If Moqorro was introduced in Dany's first chapter;  I wonder if she will remember him should their paths cross.

 

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5 hours ago, Rondo said:

1.  Drogo would put Viserys on the iron throne of his father.  The Dothraki will do that but on a time which they themselves determine.   

2.  Yes

3.  To set the world to its proper state.  To put the exiled king Viserys on his father's throne is a way of sorting things.  The plot also builds a monarchy over the Dothraki when the future children of Drogo and Dany have grown.  

But why, if Drogo had promised to put Viserys on the throne would Drogo act like the idea of invading Westeros is absurd when Dany is trying to convince him of it? More over why would Illyrio make that a condition of their contract? He sees Viserys, he knows he is a blowhard & not likely to make a good king, why would he want V on the throne? 

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1 hour ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Well he did say outright to Tyrion that he thought she would die among the Dothraki. V couldn't have been the plan though or else Illyrio would have worked harder to keep him back in Pentos while the Khalssar headed to VD.  He says little enough to Tyrion about V other than he could have ruined years of planning if he raped Dany before her wedding night as he intended. So it seems that getting himself killed before turning west didn't hurt any of Illyrio's plans.

Could the ceremony have been the thing for Illyrio? After the wedding he demonstrates his indifference to both D and V by leaving them among people he believes will kill them. We learn later that he already has a plan (f)A but like you say he could have killed them without involving Drogo. Could he have had need or reason to divest himself of the dragon eggs themselves? Could D and V have been deliberate blood sacrifices toward this or some other end and the wedding was cover for necessary ritual?

Was he lying to Tyrion later and we're seeing some retcon ripples? Sometimes I think this is the easiest answer to Illyrio's mysteries, but I hope the author can pull together something a little better than that.

Ohh I like the idea of Viserys & Dany being meant as the sacrifices to hatch the eggs. 

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2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Possibly.  I also question how invested Illyrio was in the prophecy.  Frey Family Reunion pointed this tidbit out a while back:

Is Moqorro the red priest?  If so, he is there at Illyrio's invitation. 

So Illyrio is buying their "friendship" with marriage and I suspect he is a deep insider of Red Rahloo.  Who knows what Benerro saw in his fires.  The office of Magister has religious connotations:

 
 
 
If Moqorro was introduced in Dany's first chapter;  I wonder if she will remember him should their paths cross.

 

I like the idea of Illyrio meaning to fulfill prophecy & hatch eggs. It puts some things together for me. 

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8 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I like the idea of Illyrio meaning to fulfill prophecy & hatch eggs. It puts some things together for me. 

I wonder if the office of Magister is a political branch of R'Hllor rather than a priestly branch.  If Benerro had visions of Dany hatching eggs and leading the Dthraki; the test is to give her eggs to hatch.  Illyrio downplays the gift; but could just as easily given them to Viserys to buy all the sell swords he wanted.  But he didn't.

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59 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Ohh I like the idea of Viserys & Dany being meant as the sacrifices to hatch the eggs. 

Perhaps. Viserys might be disposed off and Targaryen women are prone to die during childbirth. But another thought crossed my mind. Drogo's bloodriders could possibly have served as the sacrifice:

Quote

Every khal had his bloodriders. At first, Dany had thought of them as a kind of Dothraki Kingsguard, sworn to protect their lord, but it went further than that. Jhiqui had taught her that a bloodrider was more than a guard; they were the khal’s brothers, his shadows, his fiercest friends. “Blood of my blood,” Drogo called them, and so it was; they shared a single life. The ancient traditions of the horselords demanded that when the khal died, his bloodriders died with him, to ride at his side in the night lands. If the khal died at the hands of some enemy, they lived only long enough to avenge him, then followed him joyfully into the grave.

 

The bloodriders become part of the Khal, blood of his blood, sharing blood and a single life. They must die when he does and they go joyfully to the grave. This sounds as though the khal's kingsblood is conferred upon his bloodriders, they are brothers even if not related.  That they follow him joyfully into the grave could also indicate their willingness to die if he should command it, a willing sacrifice. 

As to the question of the other 2 dragons, i.e. Illyrio receiving one while leaving the other two with the Dothraki -  Well, it's possible that the hope was one or two eggs would hatch. On the other hand, a dragon-mounted horselord would have no problems crossing the poison sea and if enlisted by Illyrio later in the game, that would go a long way to consolidating Aegon's power and fulfill the prophecy of the stallion mounting the whole world. Speculation, I know. 

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5 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Why though? Why would he promise Viserys a crown? He certainly didn't intend on taking the 7k & no way he planned on "crowning" V the way he did. Did he think he could just give V a trinket? 

I think he didn't find it hard to simply conquer a city and dump it on Viserys, although I'm sure that Viserys being a huge disappointment soured him even on that and he just decided to ignore him till he got fed up.

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The Magister would know whether the king can get a girl pregnant or not.  Viserys was unable to produce.  He is unfortunately already crowned and by all the laws, the king of Westeros.  The Dothraki will win the kingdom for him and an heir will be suitably presented to succeed.  Daenerys meanwhile becomes khaleesi and births the Stallion Who Will Mount The World.  The one being who will unite all of the khalasars into one mighty people to rule the near East.  The plan went awry when Viserys, Drogo, and Rhaego were killed.  They got something better in return though.  Daenerys and her three dragons were reborn.  

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6 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Viserys was just musing that he could take the 7k with 10,000. 

Exactly. I don't understand why people take this 10,000 number seriously. Look at the battles we've already seen, the size of the armies, the varied terrain, and the sheer size of the 7k. Only someone like Viserys would think you could just roll through the 7k with 10,000 unarmored horsemen who also, conveniently, have no experience of sieges.

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