Football: Roll of the Dyche

[Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

I need Fulham to stay up next season

Would be sweet if Forest can get back into the top division again too. They've played some really good football this season but their bad start (5 points from their first 9 games) left them a bit too much to do to gain automatic promotion.

[Darryk]

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

I wish football wasn't such a religion for people. But then again I wish religion didn't lead to violence between people so often.

At least football fans don't kill each other in the name of their football clubs (most of the time).

[Darryk]

Really interested to see how Ten Hag does. I've always admired the Dutch approach to football, especially at Ajax Amsterdam.

[Wilbur]

2 hours ago, Consigliere said:

Would be sweet if Forest can get back into the top division again too. They've played some really good football this season but their bad start (5 points from their first 9 games) left them a bit too much to do to gain automatic promotion.

Forest needs to be in the English top division.  It really isn't football without them.

[Iskaral Pust]

It was only last night that I got to watch the Liverpool vs United match.  If I cannot watch it live then the replay is available 24 hours later.

It was good to see some sharper play, and Thiago ran the show, although we weren’t particularly ruthless about scoring (and didn’t need to be).  Mostly I felt sorry for United in the first half — that would have been a tough game for them even if they weren’t missing their two primary central midfielders.  But once they fell back into petulant clogging after the third goal, my sympathy evaporated.

There was plenty of complacency from Liverpool, especially in the second half as they seemed temporarily befuddled by United’s changed formation, although not as befuddled as United were by their own starting formation.  But good to see Mane roving confidently as a false 9, and Salah finally scoring again.

Is this the widest gulf ever between the clubs?  I cannot recall any period that was as uncompetitive as this season.

I’m a bit surprised we didn’t rotate more or sub earlier considering the short rest before that match.

[polishgenius]

1 hour ago, Iskaral Pust said:

But once they fell back into petulant clogging after the third goal, my sympathy evaporated.

 

Given your oft-expressed disapproval of any opponents ever doing anything naughty against saintly Liverpool I assume you'll be campaigning for the sale of players like Fabinho and Andy Robertson forthwith. They tarnish your reputation.

TAA isn't a stranger to the odd petulant kick, be happy to take him off your hands.

[Rorshach]

It looks very much like Southampton wants us down. 

I will by no means write this in my Little Black Book over Who Deserves Retaliation At Some Unspecified Point.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

 any opponents ever doing anything naughty against saintly Liverpool

It's also odd given how niggly some of the liverpool players are. And to be clear, I'm okay with this, every team has them.

[Soylent Brown]

Robertson is a tosser, sure, but Fernandes is light years ahead of him in those stakes.

For the most part though, we're not an especially dirty team, as the fair play tables tend to show.

[Iskaral Pust]

I think Soylent already addressed that jibe.  Partisan banter is all fun & games but United used to be an actual football team who included some physicality in their repertoire, rather than just lashing out at opponents as an outlet for their shame and humiliation.  There is a big difference.

And, no, I haven’t beatified Liverpool.  I dropped in to post that the portion of the Liverpool fan base who are demanding police action over Hillsborough taunts need to grow up and move on.  I realize our match day support still includes individuals who suffered personal bereavement back in 1989, and the injustice of the cover-up prolonged the whole thing, but it’s a bit precious to still expect everyone else to lavish respectful condolences each year.  It’s not like Liverpool conducts a big annual apology for Heysel with the same amount of effort.  Wallowing in grievance is not a good look for any group.

 

[Raja]

Yeah, I don't think you're an especially dirty team, but there are plenty in that team who are niggly ( Mane, Fabinho, Robertson etc), and I think that's totally fine. Also, if we looked, I'm sure we can find examples of 'lashing out', the holier than thou tone of the posts is a little weird, imo.

[Iskaral Pust]

9 minutes ago, Raja said:

Yeah, I don't think you're an especially dirty team, but there are plenty in that team who are niggly ( Mane, Fabinho, Robertson etc), and I think that's totally fine. Also, if we looked, I'm sure we can find examples of 'lashing out', the holier than thou tone of the posts is a little weird, imo.

I’ll listen to you on that.  Injuries suffered always loom larger than injuries inflicted, so it’s easy to lose balance in perspective.

Most of my past complaints about fouling have been about Everton and Burnley causing long term injuries to our players.  That’s not in my imagination.

[Raja]

10 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I’ll listen to you on that.  Injuries suffered always loom larger than injuries inflicted, so it’s easy to lose balance in perspective.

Yeah, I get that. Even with my own team I think Saka gets taken out every single game 2-3 times with refs doing absolutely nothing to protect him, especially as things like this have resulted in so many long term injuries for Arsenal.

[polishgenius]

5 hours ago, Soylent Brown said:

we're not an especially dirty team, as the fair play tables tend to show.

 

I don't really think you're really dirty, but I don't put an awful lot of stock by the fair play table coz they tend to favour the better teams, just by nature of the more control of the game you have the less need you have to foul. All I'd really say based on them is that you're definitely less dirty than City, but they (despite topping the table at the moment) are one of the dirtiest teams in the league. 

 

It also takes much of the sting out of the oft-raised criticisms of Dyche's Burnley if you do go by it.  They were almost never in the bottom half of that table and last year they came second.  


 

5 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

United used to be an actual football team who included some physicality in their repertoire, rather than just lashing out at opponents as an outlet for their shame and humiliation.  There is a big difference.

 

I mean, I agree that in general the tone of the end wasn't a great look, even though as I said I appreciated Hannibal - the main culprit- actually trying, but you're definitely letting recency and immediate frustration cloud your memory here. We were a far dirtier team under basically every era of Fergie than we ever have been since. It's honestly quite a lot of the problem that we don't get in opponent's heads, we have no gamesmanship. I'm pretty sure that shithousing skills was a genuine scouting requirement for Fergie - since then the only players we've really had who stand out in that regard are Ander Herrera, the king among men, and Bruno, who at the moment isn't very focused about it and ends up annoying his own fans.  

[A Horse Named Stranger]

17 hours ago, Soylent Brown said:

And it sounds like he'll be bringing fellow Dutchmen Mitchell van der Gagg and Steve McClaren as his assistants.

You had me at fellow Dutchman Steve McClaren. 

I will never forget his brief at Wolfsburg, at him standing their with his fucking umbrella when they played us. 

[Hereward]

12 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Is this the widest gulf ever between the clubs?  I cannot recall any period that was as uncompetitive as this season.

No. I’m old enough to remember the happy day when Man U got relegated in 1974! They also spent most of the 80s a mile off genuinely challenging for the title, too.

[Soylent Brown]

11 hours ago, polishgenius said:

 

I don't really think you're really dirty, but I don't put an awful lot of stock by the fair play table coz they tend to favour the better teams, just by nature of the more control of the game you have the less need you have to foul. All I'd really say based on them is that you're definitely less dirty than City, but they (despite topping the table at the moment) are one of the dirtiest teams in the league. 

It also takes much of the sting out of the oft-raised criticisms of Dyche's Burnley if you do go by it.  They were almost never in the bottom half of that table and last year they came second.  
 

I'm not sure I agree with this. Whilst the big teams' CDMs have some sort of magical hold over the refs, the likes of Burnley get away with way more than them otherwise. And Burnley actually go in to hurt people.

With regard to your lot the other day, I wasn't that bothered about Sideshow Bob Jr - he's young and was trying too hard rather than being malicious - it's the deliberate kicks that leave a sour taste, both Fernandes this time and Ronaldo the last.

[baxus]

16 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Is this the widest gulf ever between the clubs?  I cannot recall any period that was as uncompetitive as this season.

I'm obviously not as experienced as @Hereward so I'd defer to his claim, but this is definitely the widest gulf between these two clubs I've ever seen. The first Premier League season I ever watched regularly was when Arsenal won the double (1997/98 if I remember correctly) and most of that time United were better, often by quite a margin, than Liverpool but in terms of performance I don't remember Liverpool ever being dominated like this. Could be that I'm watching through rose tinted glasses, but it always seemed to me that Liverpool team at least had a will to put up a fight in those matches. On Tuesday, I got the impression that United players just wanted the time to run out after going 2-0 down after 20 minutes. The only other time I've gotten that impression from Liverpool's opponents at Anfield was when Liverpool went 3-0 up against Barcelona in THAT CL semifinal.

7 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I mean, I agree that in general the tone of the end wasn't a great look, even though as I said I appreciated Hannibal - the main culprit- actually trying, but you're definitely letting recency and immediate frustration cloud your memory here.

Hannibal should've been sent off within a couple of minutes of stepping onto the pitch. There wasn't much to praise in his performance, other than the fact he was the only one who gave off an impression that stepping onto that pitch in that shirt actually meant something to him.

[Iskaral Pust]

7 hours ago, Hereward said:

No. I’m old enough to remember the happy day when Man U got relegated in 1974! They also spent most of the 80s a mile off genuinely challenging for the title, too.

I meant the head-to-head competition rather than relative league positions.  It seems like Liverpool and United always had closely contested matches even when one club was riding considerably higher.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

11 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I meant the head-to-head competition rather than relative league positions.  It seems like Liverpool and United always had closely contested matches even when one club was riding considerably higher.

'02-'03.

Liverpool was on the receiving end of a 4-0 beating at OT.

Edit: Link added.