What will bring Daenerys to Westeros?

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

1 minute ago, Oana_Mika said:

The only people she wanted revenge from are Robert,Tywin,Jaime and Ned and of all those,only Jaime remains alive (at least for now).

 

And what will prevent the houses these people came from from being a potential threat to Daenerys? Baratheon may go extinct before Dany does a thing. But Tully, Arryn, Lannister, and Stark, she will have permanently extinguished not just out of vengeance but to prevent any serious threat to her rule.

[Oana_Mika]

Just now, SeanBeanedMeUp said:

And what will prevent the houses these people came from from being a potential threat to Daenerys? Baratheon may go extinct before Dany does a thing. But Tully, Arryn, Lannister, and Stark, she will have permanently extinguished not just out of vengeance but to prevent any serious threat to her rule.

From where do you get this idea that she wants to whipe out the Tully, Arryn, Lannister, and Stark houses?

[SeanBeanedMeUp]

1 minute ago, Oana_Mika said:

From where do you get this idea that she wants to whipe out the Tully, Arryn, Lannister, and Stark houses?

A feeling.

Besides I can't imagine those houses being ok with the dragons returning just after overthrowing them some time ago.

[Groo]

25 minutes ago, Oana_Mika said:

that does not mean it's immoral for her to free slaves.

You do realize that no one is saying that it is immoral for her to free slaves? Perhaps some of the slaver characters in the book would think that but no one writing on this forum thinks that.

[Oana_Mika]

8 minutes ago, Groo said:

You do realize that no one is saying that it is immoral for her to free slaves? Perhaps some of the slaver characters in the book would think that but no one writing on this forum thinks that.

I beg to differ : "what makes her an imperialist. We overlook it because she’s freeing slaves, but the idea that someone is able to invade a place they’ve never been unprovoked, kill their leaders and install themselves as the head of state is textbook imperialism. ", "I expect that Dany’s time in Meereen will end the same way that most regime-change missions end in the Middle East," ---> implied US/Iraq/Afganistan parallel.

[Groo]

1 minute ago, Oana_Mika said:

I beg to differ : "what makes her an imperialist. We overlook it because she’s freeing slaves, but the idea that someone is able to invade a place they’ve never been unprovoked, kill their leaders and install themselves as the head of state is textbook imperialism. "

Installing oneself as head of state is the imperialism part. If Dany had just freed the slaves and moved on she wouldn't be an imperialist. If Dany killed the leaders, took the slaves, and then moved on she wouldn't be an imperialist. The Dothraki sacking cities and taking slaves doesn't make them imperialists. Creating a new government and staying to run the place is the imperialism part.

Just to be clear, I don't have any strong personal opinions about Dany starting a new government in Meereen. The quoted comment isn't mine. I do, however, think you are badly misreading the post.

[SeanF]

10 minutes ago, Groo said:

You do realize that no one is saying that it is immoral for her to free slaves? Perhaps some of the slaver characters in the book would think that but no one writing on this forum thinks that.

There have been people on this forum (and on other social media) in the past who have defended Ghiscari slavery as “their culture”, “their way of life”, “their economy”, and/or get very upset at the use of violence against slavers. 

I think that calling anyone an “imperialist” in a world where democracy is non-existent does not mean much.  Everyone (including Ned Stark) rules by the sword.

The show unfortunately popularised the notion that being “foreign” is somehow morally reprehensible.  Actual medieval societies were quite unconcerned whether their rulers were foreign.  Most English kings weren’t English, for example.

[Oana_Mika]

11 minutes ago, Groo said:

Installing oneself as head of state is the imperialism part. If Dany had just freed the slaves and moved on she wouldn't be an imperialist. If Dany killed the leaders, took the slaves, and then moved on she wouldn't be an imperialist. The Dothraki sacking cities and taking slaves doesn't make them imperialists. Creating a new government and staying to run the place is the imperialism part.

Just to be clear, I don't have any strong personal opinions about Dany starting a new government in Meereen. The quoted comment isn't mine. I do, however, think you are badly misreading the post.

imperialism

/ɪmˈpɪərɪəlɪz(ə)m/

 

noun

noun: imperialism

1. a policy of extending a country's power and influence through colonization, use of military force, or other means.

   "the struggle against imperialism"

   • historical

     rule by an emperor.

     "in Russia, imperialism had developed alongside a semi-feudal agrarian structure"

      

     Daenerys is neither an emperor,nor has an empire and she isn't exploiting Essos' resources to found her campaign.She is just protecting those who can't protect themselves.That's why she stayed to rule Meereen.To ensure the freedom of those she freed and to create a new economic structure not based on slavery.

      

     As I said : the fandom sees this as an imperialist move,but they will also crucify her for "abandoning" Essos even though we don't know yet in what manner.

[Oana_Mika]

3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

There have been people on this forum (and on other social media) in the past who have defended Ghiscari slavery as “their culture”, “their way of life”, “their economy”, and/or get very upset at the use of violence against slavers. 

I think that calling anyone an “imperialist” in a world where democracy is non-existent does not mean much.  Everyone (including Ned Stark) rules by the sword.

The show unfortunately popularised the notion that being “foreign” is somehow morally reprehensible.  Actual medieval societies were quite unconcerned whether their rulers were foreign.  Most English kings weren’t English, for example.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

[SeanF]

3 minutes ago, Groo said:

Installing oneself as head of state is the imperialism part. If Dany had just freed the slaves and moved on she wouldn't be an imperialist. If Dany killed the leaders, took the slaves, and then moved on she wouldn't be an imperialist. The Dothraki sacking cities and taking slaves doesn't make them imperialists. Creating a new government and staying to run the place is the imperialism part.

Just to be clear, I don't have any strong personal opinions about Dany starting a new government in Meereen. The quoted comment isn't mine. I do, however, think you are badly misreading the post.

In that sense, Henry Tudor was an imperialist.  

Imperialism has connotations of people being exploited in the interests of another country or ruling caste.  Chattel slavery is the most raw form of imperialism, obviously.

[Groo]

19 minutes ago, SeanF said:

There have been people on this forum (and on other social media) in the past who have defended Ghiscari slavery as “their culture”, “their way of life”, “their economy”, and/or get very upset at the use of violence against slavers.

You have been here far longer than I have. I haven't come across those posts yet but I believe you. I don't believe, however, that the post being argued about here is one of those.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Groo said:

You have been here far longer than I have. I haven't come across those posts yet but I believe you. I don't believe, however, that the post being argued about here is one of those.

That’s fair and I agree about the post in question.

[SeanF]

Daenerys may be foreign to Slavers Bay, but her supporters are all local (bar a few hundred sellswords).  Large numbers of freedmen volunteer to join her army, but none volunteer to join the slavers.

The imperialists (in the traditional sense) are Volantis, Qarth, and New Ghis, sending armies and fleets  to reimpose slavery on an unwilling population, like Napoleon sending an army to Haiti.  That’s where analogies with the Middle East fall down.  The revolt against slavery is genuinely popular;  those trying to reimpose it are the imperialist elite.

[The Bard of Banefort]

4 hours ago, Oana_Mika said:

I beg to differ : "what makes her an imperialist. We overlook it because she’s freeing slaves, but the idea that someone is able to invade a place they’ve never been unprovoked, kill their leaders and install themselves as the head of state is textbook imperialism. ", "I expect that Dany’s time in Meereen will end the same way that most regime-change missions end in the Middle East," ---> implied US/Iraq/Afganistan parallel.

“We overlook it because she’s freeing slaves,” as in, freeing slaves is the moral part, as opposed to the rest. Not sure how that wasn’t clear.

[John Suburbs]

23 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Yeah, I'm saying Euron believes, for whatever reason, that whoever blows the horn it will find the dragons to Euron. I would find it comical if Euron has it wrong & whoever blows the horn gets the dragons bound to them. 

Or . . . if he is being double-crossed by the warlocks.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

20 hours ago, Oana_Mika said:

I also have been in fandom for some time and yes,I've seen many implying that Dany being "foreign" to Essos and Westeros basically doesn't give her the "morality" to end slavery (bc she "is imposing foreign customs on essosi" ---> "I expect that Dany’s time in Meereen will end the same way that most regime-change missions end in the Middle East, with her accepting that she can’t force a foreign people to change their ways and leaving" + "The reason why people take issue with Dany’s foreignness is because that’s part of what makes her an imperialist. We overlook it because she’s freeing slaves, but the idea that someone is able to invade a place they’ve never been unprovoked, kill their leaders and install themselves as the head of state is textbook imperialism" and I've seen many making this false equivalecy of US in Iraq/Afganistan thogh Martin refuted the allegory and imperialism implies having an actuall Empire to fund with the resources of the place you take and Dany literally grew in Essos) and neither the right to retake the throne in the name of her family (bc she was raised in Essos).@The Bard of Banefort might have used the word "horde" to say "a large number of people",but she definitely implied Dany's followers are brainwashed : "she has a cult of personality" (and we know the cult of personality is tied most with fascism,an anachronic term to use in ASoIaF and whoever read Daenerys' chapters in a non biased manner can see she is not a tyrant).And I've also seen people discussing her conquest for the throne (her invasion) in a more negative way than other struggles for said throne bc she comes with dothrakis and unsullied and imagining them wreaking havoc in Westeros (as if it wasn't already wrecked).

She is indeed imposing foreign customs on Essos. My contention isn't with how you view the book though, it's with you calling another poster racist or xenophobic for discussing the fictitious plights of a fictitious character. Foreign & Horde aren't bad words. Daenerys is foreign to the people of Mereen & Yunkai, she is leading a horde. 

 

ETA: not that it is a contest but your profile says you joined the forum in November of 2021. So not very long, unless you were under another profile previously. 

[Skahaz mo Kandaq]

What will bring Daenerys to Westeros?

The plight of the people in Westeros will be the first calling.  The War of the 5 Kings is still active.  Wars will begin in the capital, Euron will harass the Reach and the Westerlands.  The bastards in the north will have their fight.  Ramsay Snow and Jon Iceman will bring battle to Winterfell.  Westeros needs Dany.  Marwyn will be one of many voices asking for her help.  

[Oana_Mika]

On 4/26/2022 at 1:26 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Accusing a real person of being xenophobic against a fictional group of people is hilarious. You’re just angry that I dared to criticize your favorite character.

Althogh I don't agree with your statements (Daenerys being an imperialist,having a cult of personality,imposing foreign customs) I want to apologise for that comment.I let the bitter taste that the show and the fandom in general (I lurked perviously through this site as well as in other places and I also had another account) to colour the way I interpreted your response.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Oana_Mika said:

Althogh I don't agree with your statements (Daenerys being an imperialist,having a cult of personality,imposing foreign customs) I want to apologise for that comment.I let the bitter taste that the show and the fandom in general (I lurked perviously through this site as well as in other places and I also had another account) to colour the way I interpreted your response.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

[Targaryen Restoration]

The slaves in Mereen will be free and Volantis will be defeated.  Daenerys will be told of the catastrophe in Westeros and that is when she will come to protect the people from the terrors of winter.  She will melt the army of ice on the trident.  The Starks will be leading the army of ice to attack the South but Daenerys will stop them at the trident.