Your Opinions 3: Is GRRM a "bad writer?"

[Groo]

28 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

On a similar note, I just can't buy the practical aspect of Lyanna as the Knight of the Laughing Tree. There is no way that a 14-year-old girl is able to convincingly portray a male adult knight, all the way down to the booming male voice (!), without anyone seeing through the charade.

Magic? Maybe Howland Reed whipped up some deep in the Neck kind of magic for making your voice sound deep in the neck.  

[The Bard of Banefort]

Lyanna is a Cool Girl. The laws of logic don’t apply to her. She is simply the bestest at everything by default.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

7 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Lyanna is a Cool Girl. The laws of logic don’t apply to her. She is simply the bestest at everything by default.

I bet she was unfazed even when Rhaegar suggested that they should make a prophetic baby together.

[Angel Eyes]

42 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

On a similar note, I just can't buy the practical aspect of Lyanna as the Knight of the Laughing Tree. There is no way that a 14-year-old girl is able to convincingly portray a male adult knight, all the way down to the booming male voice (!), without anyone seeing through the charade.

But then again, Arya is an 11-year-old assassin, so... yeah.

Voices sound slightly different when blocked by metal, mainly muffled. Meanwhile, the Knight of the Laughing Tree could easily have been two different people.

[Groo]

54 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Meanwhile, the Knight of the Laughing Tree could easily have been two different people.

You mean like Minions stacked on top of each other?

[James Arryn]

10 minutes ago, Groo said:

You mean like Minions stacked on top of each other?

I read ‘Minoans’ and was seriously intrigued. 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

Voices sound slightly different when blocked by metal, mainly muffled. Meanwhile, the Knight of the Laughing Tree could easily have been two different people.

The only other person involved seems to be Benjen, and he was even younger than Lyanna.

[The Bard of Banefort]

This is what happens when there is too much time between books: accepted theories become “too obvious” and tinfoil theories take over.

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This is what happens when there is too much time between books: accepted theories become “too obvious” and tinfoil theories take over.

We did get some new information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9qGp78dcB4

 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This is what happens when there is too much time between books: accepted theories become “too obvious” and tinfoil theories take over.

I'm not saying that Lyanna isn't the KotLT, it's just one of those moments that takes me out of the story because it doesn't really make sense from a practical standpoint.

[LynnS]

 

Quote

 

"Or not." Jojen's face was dappled with green shadows. "Prince Bran has heard that tale a hundred times, I'm sure."

 

"No," said Bran. "I haven't. And if I have it doesn't matter. Sometimes Old Nan would tell the same story she'd told before, but we never minded, if it was a good story. Old stories are like old friends, she used to say. You have to visit them from time to time."  ASOS Bran II

 

This makes me laugh when I realize that GRRM isn't just talking about her stories but his own old friends/short stories.  There are three that involve consciousness travelling through time.  It seems to me that he has reshaped some of the time and causality ideas from older stories and is using them in ASIAF.

 This one in particular:

https://staraudiobook.com/george-r-r-martin-under-siege-audiobook/

There is still a lot of story to tell and he's just dropping this business about time and causality now.  I don't think Hodor is the only instance.  So I'm keeping an open mind.

I was told at one time that Rickon was gone for good and that Euron wasn't going to amount to much.  So it's only tinfoil until it isn't.   

[sifth]

3 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This is what happens when there is too much time between books: accepted theories become “too obvious” and tinfoil theories take over.

This might be the wisest thing I've ever read on these message boards.

[Groo]

3 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This is what happens when there is too much time between books: accepted theories become “too obvious” and tinfoil theories take over.

Yes, and at some point A Song of Ice and Fire becomes A Song of Tin and Foil.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

What I'm trying to say is that GRRM's mix of realism and traditional fantasy doesn't always work. Sometimes I'm not not sure where you're supposed to suspend your disbelief, and where you're not. 

[sifth]

2 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

What I'm trying to say is that GRRM's mix of realism and traditional fantasy doesn't always work. Sometimes I'm not not sure where you're supposed to suspend your disbelief, and where you're not. 

I mean The Others, dragons, Faceless Men, Red Priests who can make shadow demons and bring back the dead, giants, mammoths, giants ridding mammoths, skin changers, the children of the forest, dragon controlling horn, warlocks, wildfire, and whatever the f#$k The Mountain has now become, are usually where I start to suspend my disbelief, but the fact that they all exist in a somewhat realistic world, makes them more fun.

[butterweedstrover]

6 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

On a similar note, I just can't buy the practical aspect of Lyanna as the Knight of the Laughing Tree. There is no way that a 14-year-old girl is able to convincingly portray a male adult knight, all the way down to the booming male voice (!), without anyone seeing through the charade.

But then again, Arya is an 11-year-old assassin, so... yeah.

I wouldn’t say the series is realistic, more gritty than realistic. We can ignore what Martin says because he has been factually wrong many times. 
For example, 14 year olds were not considered of breeding age in the middle age. 
 

My issue is with the inequality of the grit. Woman will get raped all the time, but a group of male criminals with no women somehow does not lead to male on male rape. 
 

Dany is a target for rape, but not Jon. Part me thinks it is because Martin sexualizes Dany but considers Jon more of a self-insert fantasy (which why as a virgin he does great at oral sex).

[alienarea]

In my opinion the fantasy elements (dragons, White Walkers, Faceless Men ...) have to be accepted as they are as it is a fantasy story.

Where I struggle are these "realistic" human plot-holes:

1. Varys, the master of whispers for Aerys, becomes master of whispers for Robert. In our history he would have been one of the first to get executed.

2. Rhaegar didappears with Lyanna, Robert claims he raped her a thousand times, then Ned returns from Dorne with Lyanna's bones and a baby and nobody can add things up, though it is known Rhaegar returned to die at the Trident from Dorne with a Dornish army. 

3. Tyrion still being alive.

 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

2 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

For example, 14 year olds were not considered of breeding age in the middle age. 

Didn't Margaret Beaufort give birth to Henry VII at 13/14?

[Jaenara Belarys]

5 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Didn't Margaret Beaufort give birth to Henry VII at 13/14?

She gave birth at 13, got pregnant at twelve. 

[butterweedstrover]

3 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

She gave birth at 13, got pregnant at twelve. 

 

3 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Didn't Margaret Beaufort give birth to Henry VII at 13/14?

It was not considered normal or healthy. Such an age was not socially acceptable, and that is why such cases are infamous. 
 

http://francislovell.blogspot.com/2019/11/joan-beaumont-margaret-beaufort-and.html?m=1