Jump to content

Your Opinions 3: Is GRRM a "bad writer?"


Jaenara Belarys

Recommended Posts

19 hours ago, frenin said:

It doesn't make it any less of a strawman tho. There's a perfectly viable reason for Robb's behavior, in fact we're told it's the assumption the Lannisters are going by... Yet blaming it on Cat seems tempting enough...

 

Sorry, you’ve lost me here. It’s a straw man because…you think it is? ASOIAF is full of complex characters making decisions for many reasons. GRRM repeatedly leaves things open to reader interpretation. 

But mostly, who is ‘finding it tempting to ‘blame’ it on Cat’?
 

If by that you mean posters, I wonder if you know how offensive that is? You are suggesting that people who hold alternate views on Cat related issues than you do are actively and selectively looking for ways to paint her in a bad light. In my case, despite my pointing out how unique the Jon behaviour is in someone I called at her wise very kind and caring. So even from someone who generally thinks positively about Cat, a more critical interpretation of one aspect of her behaviour is evidence of a motivated and biased agenda. 
 

edit: also, I think you are misunderstanding or misapplying the concept of straw man here. I think you mean something closer to scapegoat. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Sorry, you’ve lost me here. It’s a straw man because…you think it is? ASOIAF is full of complex characters making decisions for many reasons. GRRM repeatedly leaves things open to reader interpretation

There's nothing there to reader interpretation. Robb states that he married Jeyne to not dishonor her, at any point does he hint about her having bastards as a reason why he ought to marry her. The Lannisters themselves state that they think Robb would marry Jeyne because he's "his father's son". What's there to interpret as Robb having ptsd and wanting to avoid Jeyne's bastards in Winterfell... Why would he even have them in Winterfell in the first place.

It's a massive leap of logic that literally comes out of nowhere. Ned is the reason they all give for Robb's behavior... How does Cat factor there, it's not like I'm not fan of tinfoil theories... Just that this sounds curious to say the least.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Sorry, you’ve lost me here. It’s a straw man because…you think it is? ASOIAF is full of complex characters making decisions for many reasons. GRRM repeatedly leaves things open to reader interpretation. 

But mostly, who is ‘finding it tempting to ‘blame’ it on Cat’?
 

If by that you mean posters, I wonder if you know how offensive that is? You are suggesting that people who hold alternate views on Cat related issues than you do are actively and selectively looking for ways to paint her in a bad light. In my case, despite my pointing out how unique the Jon behaviour is in someone I called at her wise very kind and caring. So even from someone who generally thinks positively about Cat, a more critical interpretation of one aspect of her behaviour is evidence of a motivated and biased agenda. 
 

edit: also, I think you are misunderstanding or misapplying the concept of straw man here. I think you mean something closer to scapegoat. 

I do apologize btw, if my comments came as offensive or aggressive. It wasn't my intention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, James Arryn said:

So even from someone who generally thinks positively about Cat, a more critical interpretation of one aspect of her behaviour is evidence of a motivated and biased agenda. 

For sure! I'm a huge Catelyn fan, does that mean I can't disagree with her? Or have a discussion about it? I'm also a huge Robb fan, but I strongly disagreed in both political terms and rational terms, that Jaime wasnt traded for Sansa.

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

I don't take these things that seriously.  Cat is a fictional character in a book.  I'll just leave it at that..  

Lol no doubt. I've recently become convinced that GRRM is procrastinating because, basically, he's scared of death threats when he turns a fan favorite into a baddie. 

Daenerys for example, what a character! Tattoos have been inked, human beings have been named, and KL has burned.

Like, who am I named for? The Little Bird that may kill her cousin? The Snow that musses his sister's hair with Longclaw?

Another example I have is Catelyn. Not one in the fandom,  (I am directly challenging you, uh not specifically Lynn lol but more like the general term "you", to agree with me) thinks Cats still a thing. Despite her person still having a massive impact on current events.

45 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

To be honest, I think the real reason so many people don’t like Cat is because she is both extremely morbid and judgmental. That said, so is Ned, and everyone gives him a pass.

I truly don't understand the love for The Ned. He infuriates me to no end, yet it's not just thou faceless fandom that thinks this but my personal family and friends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this thread has gone just a little bit off topic. If anything it's proven that GRRM is a rather good writers, if he was able to create a complicated character like Cat, who the fans can equally like and dislike. If anything it makes her much more interesting, than many characters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

To be honest, I think the real reason so many people don’t like Cat is because she is both extremely morbid and judgmental. That said, so is Ned, and everyone gives him a pass.

On the other hand if he was more judgmental he might have survived, ie dealing with Littlefinger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, sifth said:

I think this thread has gone just a little bit off topic. If anything it's proven that GRRM is a rather good writers, if he was able to create a complicated character like Cat, who the fans can equally like and dislike. If anything it makes her much more interesting, than many characters.

Conclusion: Catelyn is the polar opposite of Daario.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Conclusion: Catelyn is the polar opposite of Daario.

I'd say Darkstar. I think that like Cat, Daario is pretty cool and usually entertaining. I think he still has important parts to play in his life, or possibly death, that'll have severe implications for multiple pov. 

Darkstar, not so much

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Conclusion: Catelyn is the polar opposite of Daario.

Cat, Jaime, Tyrion, Sansa... They are all polarizing.

Don't you think that the wars are a bit underwhelming? The only one Martin seemed to put some effort is the Dance of the dragons. The rest is one big battle and a couple of lines about "battles" here and there. He doesn't seem to want to write about the bit at all.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Another example I have is Catelyn. Not one in the fandom,  (I am directly challenging you, uh not specifically Lynn lol but more like the general term "you", to agree with me) thinks Cats still a thing. Despite her person still having a massive impact on current events.

Oh of course she is an interesting part of the story.  I can't wait to find out what happens to Jaimie and Brienne when he is confronted by LSH.  But hate the character?  No.  I don't understand these things.. like hating Essos for example.  I don't understand that either.

I don't even hate Ramsey.  He disgusts and repells me, but I don't hate him.  I'd like to see Rickon warg his hounds and tear Ramsey a new one... but I don't hate him.  I feel the same way about Victarion but he's also hilarious because he's as thick as a brick and wears a squid on his head; but I don't hate him.  And Euron, well he justs scares the hell out of me.

All this stuff is going to get dialed to 86 in the next book.  So if you hate stuff now, just wait and you'll hate it even more.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depends on your definition of bad. His content that he produces (albeit at a snails pace) speaks for itself. However, imo he has his hands in way to many pots. I know, I know George is not our bitch and its his story and he will finish it when he does. I do think that had he kept his head down Winds would be out already. His fanbase is to invested to abandon him. I just feel for all the people, my uncle included, who died thinking they would see winds and dream but never got to see the story completed due to the decade+ wait. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Oh of course she is an interesting part of the story.  I can't wait to find out what happens to Jaimie and Brienne when he is confronted by LSH.  But hate the character?  No.  I don't understand these things.. like hating Essos for example.  I don't understand that either.

I don't even hate Ramsey.  He disgusts and repells me, but I don't hate him.  I'd like to see Rickon warg his hounds and tear Ramsey a new one... but I don't hate him.  I feel the same way about Victarion but he's also hilarious because he's as thick as a brick and wears a squid on his head; but I don't hate him.  And Euron, well he justs scares the hell out of me.

All this stuff is going to get dialed to 86 in the next book.  So if you hate stuff now, just wait and you'll hate it even more.  

Wanting warged hounds to eat X alive =/= hating X.

People, do not piss off LynnS! Hi Lynn, have I told you what a lovely, kind and hopefully forgiving person you are lately? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, James Arryn said:

Wanting warged hounds to eat X alive =/= hating X.

People, do not piss off LynnS! Hi Lynn, have I told you what a lovely, kind and hopefully forgiving person you are lately? 

LOL!  I'm just thinking about what would make the story interesting.  I fully expect GRRM to dial up the horror in the next book starting with the burning of Shireen.  I sure as hell don't want to see that but I know we're going to see it.  GRRM will be unleashed to do with us what he will.  I don't know if I can stand it.  There will come a point where we are reading through the cracks of our fingers, sleeping with the lights on and if I had a basement, I'd never go down there.

But no I don't hate characters. But I can wish for Ramsey to get his just desserts. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

I'd say Darkstar. I think that like Cat, Daario is pretty cool and usually entertaining. I think he still has important parts to play in his life, or possibly death, that'll have severe implications for multiple pov. 

Darkstar, not so much

Darkstar and Daario are on the same level of cribge for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, LynnS said:

LOL!  I'm just thinking about what would make the story interesting.  I fully expecy GRRM to dial up the horror in the next book starting with the burning of Shireen.  I sure as hell don't want to see that but I know we're going to see it.  GRRM will be unleashed to do with us what he will.  I don't know if I can stand it.  There will come a point where we are reading through the cracks of our fingers, sleeping with the lights on and if I had a basement, I'd never go down there.

But no I don't hate characters. But I can wish for Ramsey to get his just desserts. 

I'm expecting Jeyne Poole to be unmasked and burned for treason by Stannis, and Missandei to be tortured to death by slavers, and Sweetrobin to go into convulsions, after Sansa poisons him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I'm expecting Jeyne Poole to be unmasked and burned for treason by Stannis, and Missandei to be tortured to death by slavers, and Sweetrobin to go into convulsions, after Sansa poisons him.

OH Lord!  GRRM is going to make Stephen King look like a girl scout.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...