The Bard of Banefort Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said: It all depends on how much editing he's planning to do in order to hit 1500 manuscript pages. We should remember that he moved the Battle of Ice, The Battle of Fire, and many of the sample chapters that we got from Dance to Winds in order for Dance to be publishable. In other words, he had too much written and had to trim it down. Maybe he is in a similar situation now. That kind of makes me feel worse. Because the ADWD chapters were already, what, 200 pages on their own? So that’s a big chunk of the book done in 2011. Barristan’s sample chapters show the beginning of the Battle of Fire, and Theon’s ends right before the Battle of Ice, so I’m guessing that he at least finished those, assuming he was on a roll when he wrote them. Let’s say that’s another 200 pages. Now he has another thousand pages to go, and he doesn’t know how long exactly it will be, which makes me think he’s hit a wall. He must be undecided about some things still, otherwise he could just release what he has so far to get everyone off his back. But I’m guessing he’s still torn on certain plot points that would require him to edit earlier chapters depending on which direction they go. It is usually a good sign when he talks more about what he’s writing though, so at least there’s that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 56 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: It is usually a good sign when he talks more about what he’s writing though, so at least there’s that. His editor once said that back in 2011 he wanted another year or so to properly incoropate the battles of Meereen and Winterfell into ADWD, but the publishers forced his hand and the book was published in tandem with the show debuting. Nowadays he has much more leverage and is unlikely to concede on any ideas he has. So chances are he has been sitting there for the last 5 years trying to fit plotline XYZ into 1500 manuscript pages. Plus, he said a few years ago that his publishers suggested a Feast/Dance-type split for TWOW. So... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanBeanedMeUp Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 9 hours ago, LynnS said: Huge books don't bother me either except they make my wrists sore. In defense of GRRM here, he will have to do what's necessary to complete the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanBeanedMeUp Posted May 1, 2022 Share Posted May 1, 2022 Having looked up on the various fan theories, it just hardens my belief that GRRM has a huge threshold to complete. It's not easy being able to tie up a story so complicated and vast as this one. And I can't help but blame the show for taking away time from GRRM. He should try a Brandon Sanderson-esque system where he tells people the percentage of work done so he could give us some assurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 2 hours ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: Having looked up on the various fan theories, it just hardens my belief that GRRM has a huge threshold to complete. It's not easy being able to tie up a story so complicated and vast as this one. And I can't help but blame the show for taking away time from GRRM. He should try a Brandon Sanderson-esque system where he tells people the percentage of work done so he could give us some assurance. The problem is, the percentage done will then decrease when he inevitably tosses half a dozen chapters and starts re-writing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 I'm rather worried the final two books are going to be like the Rise of Skywalker, where things are going to be so fast paced, we'll be rushing to the end. I mean Dany is still not in Westeros yet, we have next to no plot involving the Others and we now have a new plot about Faegon trying to take over the country, to deal with. There just seems like too much stuff to properly pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 hour ago, sifth said: I'm rather worried the final two books are going to be like the Rise of Skywalker, where things are going to be so fast past, we'll be rushing to the end. I mean Dany is still not in Westeros yet, we have next to no plot involving the Others and we now have a new plot about Faegon trying to take over the country, to deal with. There just seems like too much stuff to properly pace. I think eventually he’ll accept that he needs more than two books to finish the series. Unfortunately, that day has not come yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 14 hours ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: In defense of GRRM here, he will have to do what's necessary to complete the story. Well he said as much in his last blog post. There will be some kind of definitive conclusion but this is not a story that will ever stop growing in GRRM's mind. Honestly, I wouldn't want it to end once the main story is resolved.. That leaves us with a lot of untold tales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 19 hours ago, sifth said: I mean The Others are very much in the background for most of A Song of Ice and Fire. As of book 5 they only showed up two times. The dark lord in the one and only Wheel of Time book I read showed up all the time, either trying to kill the main characters and convince them to join him. I think it's sort of why, I like this series over most fantasy series. Horrible things happen to the main characters and the villains can and actually do win sometimes. That doesn't happen often enough in stories I feel. Absolutely. The prologue set up the threat of The Others but what GRRM intends to do with them and what his play on the trope is is still unknown five books in. The trope is more vanilla in WOT but the complexity and chaos of the world and it's politics appeal to me. It's not as gritty as ASOIAF but there's plenty of conflict. Spoiler Plot twist: that guy, Ba'alzamon, is not in fact The Dark One. I doubt you'll mind spoilers as I don't think you intend to read WOT but that guy is just one of his followers. The Dark One doesn't and can't touch the world directly unless he can break free of his prison. Until then, and the series is about preventing that, he needs men to decide to serve him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 15 hours ago, SeanBeanedMeUp said: He should try a Brandon Sanderson-esque system where he tells people the percentage of work done so he could give us some assurance. He did that when he was writing Dance, and it didn't work out very well. A lot of people got frustrated when he blew deadlines, which is why he had a more silent approach with Winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 I think the solution to the Others will probably be simpler and less climactic than a lot of people are expecting. The defeat of the Others on the show was clearly something they came up with on their own (they said as much), which begs the question of why they decided not to use George’s planned ending on that one. Of course, it could just be that he has no idea what to do with the Others, but after 25 years, I’m guessing he must have the bare bones of something in mind. And I’m willing to bet it wouldn’t have made for terribly exciting television. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseBastard Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 It's nice to see some people still have hope that the main story will continue. I think the show killed any chance of that and George is only interested in expanding the world of a tale that will never be complete. Still, kudos to all those who keep the faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 22 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: I think the solution to the Others will probably be simpler and less climactic than a lot of people are expecting. The defeat of the Others on the show was clearly something they came up with on their own (they said as much), which begs the question of why they decided not to use George’s planned ending on that one. Of course, it could just be that he has no idea what to do with the Others, but after 25 years, I’m guessing he must have the bare bones of something in mind. And I’m willing to bet it wouldn’t have made for terribly exciting television. Whatever it was, this "preternatural event" that threw the seasons out of balance; it has something to do with sundering the heart and soul into ice and fire. 'Mel is looking for the soul of ice and heart of darkness while advancing her cause - the heart of fire and soul of light. I think these two aspects respresent the heart in conflict with itself in a larger context and there will be two characters that personify these characteristcs. Not sure that would translate onto the screen. But if ice can burn, then love and hate can mate. So I'm guessing something much more nuanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 22 minutes ago, HouseBastard said: It's nice to see some people still have hope that the main story will continue. I think the show killed any chance of that and George is only interested in expanding the world of a tale that will never be complete. Still, kudos to all those who keep the faith. I feel differently about it every day. If I had to wager, I’d guess that George wishes the series was complete, but has lost interest in writing it and no longer takes much joy in the main series (granted, he does seem to enjoy talking to fans about the characters). He appears to be more interested in world building. Which is okay. . . if he’s still going to write those stories. And he really hasn’t in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 16 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: I feel differently about it every day. LOL! I sympathize. In Deep Geek has an interesting take on when we will see the book. The Winds of Winter - livestream - YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 3 hours ago, the trees have eyes said: Absolutely. The prologue set up the threat of The Others but what GRRM intends to do with them and what his play on the trope is is still unknown five books in. The trope is more vanilla in WOT but the complexity and chaos of the world and it's politics appeal to me. It's not as gritty as ASOIAF but there's plenty of conflict. Reveal hidden contents Plot twist: that guy, Ba'alzamon, is not in fact The Dark One. I doubt you'll mind spoilers as I don't think you intend to read WOT but that guy is just one of his followers. The Dark One doesn't and can't touch the world directly unless he can break free of his prison. Until then, and the series is about preventing that, he needs men to decide to serve him. It's all cool my friend and I'm happy you enjoyed the Wheel of Time series and don't mind any spoilers at all. Sadly the book just wasn't for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 4 hours ago, LynnS said: LOL! I sympathize. In Deep Geek has an interesting take on when we will see the book. The Winds of Winter - livestream - YouTube I won’t be able to watch it for a while. When does he predict it’ll come out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 29 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: I won’t be able to watch it for a while. When does he predict it’ll come out? He thought it would be this November but pushed it out for another year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 26 minutes ago, LynnS said: He thought it would be this November but pushed it out for another year. There’s a rumor on the internet that Winds will come out November 13, 2023. I have no idea where it came from, but it would be funny if it was right. Then again, we’ve been predicting a release date for years now. As far as similar fantasy books go, I’ve heard that The Dragonbone Chair is very similar to ASOIAF, and George has cited it as inspiration. I’m surprised none of the streaming networks have scooped it up yet to fill the GOT void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takiedevushkikakzvezdy Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 6 hours ago, HouseBastard said: It's nice to see some people still have hope that the main story will continue. I think the show killed any chance of that and George is only interested in expanding the world of a tale that will never be complete. Still, kudos to all those who keep the faith. I mean, there is a difference between believing he will finish it and hoping that he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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