House of the Dragon Budget Under $20 Million Per Episode

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, Sotan said:

I agree with you there, and you're right about the plethora of Velaryon heirs hanging around, even in the trailer and the bts pics the family is well represented. What I don't get is why Corlys would be ok with Rhaenyra's bastards inheriting Driftmark. I understand the betrothal to his biological granddaughters, but things can change on a dime, just ceding his title and wealth to a Strong bastard seems crazy to me. I hope the show shines a light on what he and Rhaenys were thinking. 

Well, since Laenor acknowledged them, they weren't Strong bastards. I mean, if Corlys and Rhaenys had problems with Laenor's sons they could and would have said so. They wouldn't have waited until Corlys' old age made him weak. They could have pushed Viserys I to declare them bastards. Nobody would have fed them to any dragons.

But then, as the text shows, the succession of Driftmark was unclear in the wake of Laenor's death. Corlys had not yet named a new heir, or else Rhaenyra wouldn't have begged her father-in-law to name Lucerys nor would have Vaemond Velaryon put forth his own claim (or rather: he would have put forth his own claim against against the heir Corlys had formally anointed and installed with Rhaenyra's and Viserys' blessing - and that is not what happened). Years had passed between Laenor's death and Corlys' short illness and no new heir was named.

And with there not being a new heir it is possible that Corlys wasn't sure who would should succeed him on Driftmark.

But then - perhaps it was only that Jacaerys being a double heir caused confusion. On his father's side he stood to inherit Driftmark from his grandfather, on his mother's side he would eventually succeed to the Iron Throne.

They could have thought that it was unfair if Jace was first installed as Lord of Driftmark only to eventually succeed to the Iron Throne possibly after he himself had already children and grandchildren who would then have claims to Driftmark of their own ... while Rhaenyra's younger sons would get nothing. This kind of thing can get complicated. The royal family was getting ever larger - Rhaenyra had five sons when Corlys got sick, and to ensure that things go smoothly in the future all those royal princes need to have something to do.

So it may have been that they had just not figured out which son of Laenor should be the new heir of Driftmark.

The show would do well if they played up the fact that with Aegon, Aemond, and Daeron on the one hand, and Jace, Luke, Joff, Aegon, and Viserys on the other there were literally eight royal princes around. If they had all grown up to have children of their own, the Targaryen-Velaryon double family would have grown into a very large clan (even more since there very few girls to marry within the family, so even the younger princes could have married ambitious wives from great houses), and Viserys I or Rhaenyra would have been forced to keep all those male branches content and in line. If they want to develop the children some more, it might make sense to depict Aemond and especially Daeron as folks who really get the feeling their father neither needs them nor cares for them particularly, considering that his darling daughter had given him five strong grandsons.

It is a pity George didn't allow such branches to develop in-between the reigns of the Conqueror and Viserys I since it could have been quite interesting how Jaehaerys I, say, had dealt with overbearing and grasping nephews and male cousins.

The show certainly could add some more friction to the entire thing. What the promo material tells us about Rhaenys is that while she fully supports Rhaenyra's claim she isn't completely sure that she would make a good queen (or perhaps only as good a queen as she thought she might have been).

Part of the friction there could be how things between Rhaenyra and Laenor went. I mean, let's say she is fine with each of them living their own lives, but still pissed that neither had the grace to actually conceive at least one child together (presumably the eldest, so nobody could mess with them).

Insofar as the plot goes, I think the show will first have basically two power blocks in the royal family - Daemon and the Velaryons (who are going to make common cause when Rhaenyra is made Heir Apparent and Viserys I marries Alicent rather than Laena) on the one hand, and Viserys I, Rhaenyra, and the Hightowers on the other (of course, in the beginning Daemon might be his own faction, but once it his brother names Rhaenyra his Heir Apparent he has to look for allies). The show might try to convince the audience that Daemon marrying Laena (which could happen earlier in the show if they downplay or cut Rhea) will result in him and the Velaryons trying to steal the throne while Alicent and Otto are going to defend Rhaenyra who they are going to support in the beginning. Something like that might also be indicated by Laena and Laenor and Rhaenys joining Corlys and Daemon in their campaign on the Stepstones - which could easily be presented as some kind of test run for dragon warfare in Westeros should they want to stage a coup or uprising against Viserys I or Rhaenyra. We might then also see the Rhaenyra-Laenor betrothal as Viserys I's attempt to drive a wedge between Daemon and the Velaryons. If Laenor gets to be prince consort, Rhaenys and Corlys might be less inclined to stage a rebellion.

The whole Green thing should be a pretty slow buildup and the prospect of Daemon-Velaryon coup should basically only end with the sudden and quite unexpected marriage of Rhaenyra and Daemon in the wake of the sudden deaths of Laena, Laenor, and Harwin. Then we suddenly have a situation where the Velaryons and Daemon are both firmly in Rhaenyra's camp and they all share a common goal. Had Daemon and Laena produced a son he could easily enough have pushed forth such a son against both Rhaenyra and her sons by Laenor who - as he might know or suspect - weren't actually fathered by Laenor as well as the Hightower-Targaryens. And Daemon's son by Laena would have had the blood of the dragon on both sides and would be supported by the rider of the largest surviving dragon.

[EggBlue]

one desperate hope I have for the show is regarding Corlys's relationship with Marilda of Hall . I find it better if Marilda was Corlys's daughter from a relationship prior to his marriage. I understand that this might just be my own perception but as far as I recall , adulterer men are not depicted in a positive light in George's world , that is with the exception of Corlys. despite their huge age gap , Corlys and Rhaenys seemed such an amazingly rare loving power couple in FnB . but it all went down when after her death you realize he was cheating on her for several years with a woman half her age. 

[Sotan]

3 hours ago, EggBlue said:

one desperate hope I have for the show is regarding Corlys's relationship with Marilda of Hall . I find it better if Marilda was Corlys's daughter from a relationship prior to his marriage. I understand that this might just be my own perception but as far as I recall , adulterer men are not depicted in a positive light in George's world , that is with the exception of Corlys. despite their huge age gap , Corlys and Rhaenys seemed such an amazingly rare loving power couple in FnB . but it all went down when after her death you realize he was cheating on her for several years with a woman half her age. 

I like that! Even the latest promo shots have Corlys and Rhaenys showing intimate and affectionate. His secret family came out of left field. I don't want any character to be whitewashed, Corlys is still a deeply ambitious man, but the secret sons storyline was kind of gross. 

[Sotan]

10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Insofar as the plot goes, I think the show will first have basically two power blocks in the royal family - Daemon and the Velaryons (who are going to make common cause when Rhaenyra is made Heir Apparent and Viserys I marries Alicent rather than Laena) on the one hand, and Viserys I, Rhaenyra, and the Hightowers on the other (of course, in the beginning Daemon might be his own faction, but once it his brother names Rhaenyra his Heir Apparent he has to look for allies). The show might try to convince the audience that Daemon marrying Laena (which could happen earlier in the show if they downplay or cut Rhea) will result in him and the Velaryons trying to steal the throne while Alicent and Otto are going to defend Rhaenyra who they are going to support in the beginning. Something like that might also be indicated by Laena and Laenor and Rhaenys joining Corlys and Daemon in their campaign on the Stepstones - which could easily be presented as some kind of test run for dragon warfare in Westeros should they want to stage a coup or uprising against Viserys I or Rhaenyra. We might then also see the Rhaenyra-Laenor betrothal as Viserys I's attempt to drive a wedge between Daemon and the Velaryons. If Laenor gets to be prince consort, Rhaenys and Corlys might be less inclined to stage a rebellion.

I wish the show would take its time and let the story unfold like this, unfortunately with everything I've heard it seems like they want to end the season with Viserys' death and the beginning of the dance. 

[Lord Varys]

4 hours ago, EggBlue said:

one desperate hope I have for the show is regarding Corlys's relationship with Marilda of Hall . I find it better if Marilda was Corlys's daughter from a relationship prior to his marriage. I understand that this might just be my own perception but as far as I recall , adulterer men are not depicted in a positive light in George's world , that is with the exception of Corlys. despite their huge age gap , Corlys and Rhaenys seemed such an amazingly rare loving power couple in FnB . but it all went down when after her death you realize he was cheating on her for several years with a woman half her age. 

If they want to cover it properly, they could show a quarrel between Rhaenys and Corlys around that time. Or they could simply go with Laenor as the father of the Hull boys. In any case, I don't think they should show that relationship specifically in season 1 but rather tell the story with flashbacks, etc. once the Hull boys present themselves to Jacaerys.

6 minutes ago, Sotan said:

I wish the show would take its time and let the story unfold like this, unfortunately with everything I've heard it seems like they want to end the season with Viserys' death and the beginning of the dance. 

On the one hand I agree with you there ... but then you have to consider how much you can push into an hour-long episode, and how little actually happens in 'Heirs of the Dragon' - especially if you consider that Gyldayn often gives us contradicting versions of a single event ... which the show is likely not going to do.

We will have basically three main settings in season 1 - KL/the Red Keep, Dragonstone and its citadel, and Driftmark and High Tide. That's it. We might also see progresses and tourneys and the like, as the teaser indicated, but unlike GoT we don't have to bother with the internal workings of all the great houses ... which means there might actually be a lot of time to flesh out all the main characters and depict and develop all the schemes and romances and plots.

And it really seems that they want to start at the beginning of the reign of Viserys I, starting with Daemon as the presumptive heir, Rhaenyra as the darling daughter of the king and his still-living queen, Aemma Arryn, Criston Cole as a mere knight who isn't a Kingsguard yet, Alicent and Rhaenyra as friends, Otto as the guy who supports Rhaenyra's installation as Heir Apparent, etc.

That means they must want to go through the motions of all the intrigues. I mean, the very fact they include the Strongs means they will also want the audience to get invested in them, meaning they will give Lyonel, Harwin, and Larys an agenda of their own. We have no clue what Lord Lyonel wanted for his sons after he became Hand. The show might come up with an answer there.

[Sotan]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

On the one hand I agree with you there ... but then you have to consider how much you can push into an hour-long episode, and how little actually happens in 'Heirs of the Dragon' - especially if you consider that Gyldayn often gives us contradicting versions of a single event ... which the show is likely not going to do.

It seems like a tall order to cram 20+ years of history into one season. I hope they can pull it off. I wonder how the multiple timelines will work out?

[Lord Varys]

35 minutes ago, Sotan said:

It seems like a tall order to cram 20+ years of history into one season. I hope they can pull it off. I wonder how the multiple timelines will work out?

It would only be a lot if they insisted that a lot happened there.

Of course, I'd have preferred it if they filled those years with actual events, stretching out the story more ... but in a faithful adaptation nothing important happened for most of the time in those years.

It wouldn't be that hard to have multiple time jumps in a single episode if they still tell a continuous story.

But of course - this kind of setting is weird since we would have 20+ years covered in season 1 and only three years in the later seasons, considering that the Dance only stretched from 129-131 AC.

I expect them to not mention all the time how much time passed - the audience can gain that from there being children were earlier were none and from the children growing up, etc.

[Sotan]

46 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I expect them to not mention all the time how much time passed - the audience can gain that from there being children were earlier were none and from the children growing up, etc.

That's probably what they're going for. It's still going to be crazy in one season Alicent's 4 children, Rhaenyra's 5 and Daemon's twins will be born, then see as little kids and then adults/young adults. All played by different actors. 

I have to say I'm hyped for this show only to see these characters be brought to life. The war itself isn't very interesting, but its this part of the story-the lead up to the Dance-that was the juiciest. To see it on screen is going to be incredible. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

One thing that HOTD will have to do is find a way to subdue the nihilism of the second half of the war. FnB avoided becoming depressing by including the Regency, which had the many Hands, Alyn Velaryon, and Viserys’ return to court. I doubt that they’ll include the entire Regency in HOTD though. I’m not sure how they’ll prevent it from becoming too bitter. 

[EggBlue]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

One thing that HOTD will have to do is find a way to subdue the nihilism of the second half of the war. FnB avoided becoming depressing by including the Regency, which had the many Hands, Alyn Velaryon, and Viserys’ return to court. I doubt that they’ll include the entire Regency in HOTD though. I’m not sure how they’ll prevent it from becoming too bitter. 

I suppose the best way for them to do that is by having the scene of  Targaryen siblings' reunion right at the end of last episode. they can change the book canon and have the reunion not long after Aegon and Jaehaera's coronation.

[The Bard of Banefort]

43 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I suppose the best way for them to do that is by having the scene of  Targaryen siblings' reunion right at the end of last episode. they can change the book canon and have the reunion not long after Aegon and Jaehaera's coronation.

I think ending with Aegon and Viserys’ reunion is the best idea too. I’m just not sure how they’re going to balance out the bleakness of the rest of the show.

[Lord Varys]

On 5/2/2022 at 12:47 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think ending with Aegon and Viserys’ reunion is the best idea too. I’m just not sure how they’re going to balance out the bleakness of the rest of the show.

The ending is just going to be weird as hell. The last proper action thingy will be the riots and the Storming of the Dragonpit ... then we are down to shabby dealings and backstabbing and unimpressive battles.

One imagines they will cut Daenaera Velaryon and the death of Jaehaera unless they actually do Regency stuff. And if they go with the Viserys story as it is in the book, then his return also will have to take place before the show is over, or else that's going to be a dangling and unresolved plotline.

I guess it could be easy to bring Viserys back earlier if they have Corlys or perhaps even Rhaenyra send Alyn Velaryon to Essos to look for sellswords and supports there (Alyn doesn't really do anything of substance during the war) - like Aegon II does in the book with his guys - causing him to chance upon Viserys and bringing him back for the coronation of Aegon III (or shortly thereafter).

If there is no Regency material in the show this could be a nice ending ... but if there were continued seasons based on the Regency material Viserys already being there wouldn't be *that big* of a change. Peake could still murder Jaehaera, still try to marry his daughter to the king, etc. and it might be interesting if the Rogares were players at court for a longer time, perhaps with one of them even sitting on the regency council.

[Lord Varys]

Bah, no idea when the new teaser thingy gets its own thread here, but I really don't like the visuals of the show at all.

This is the golden reign of Viserys I, not some primitive backwater era. The people should dress splendidly and not aggressive, the colors should be bright, the decorations splendid, etc.

And then they do not give Rhaenyra a single line in the entire thing. What an ugly thing to do. She sits there like some sort of trained parrot who forgot her lines.

[The Young Maester]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Bah, no idea when the new teaser thingy gets its own thread here, but I really don't like the visuals of the show at all.

This is the golden reign of Viserys I, not some primitive backwater era. The people should dress splendidly and not aggressive, the colors should be bright, the decorations splendid, etc.

And then they do not give Rhaenyra a single line in the entire thing. What an ugly thing to do. She sits there like some sort of trained parrot who forgot her lines.

I liked the customs and how everything looked. But I did not like how it looks very dark.

Definitely dosent resemble viserys reign at all. The guy was lively with feasts, tourneys and no doubt decorated his keep with all sorts of lively Colors.

First season of GOT looked colourful and nice. I do hate this current norm that movies/tv shows based on older times must be dark.

[C.T. Phipps]

On 4/22/2022 at 4:54 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

The mystery has been solved! 

I admit to not knowing much about economics, but I just can’t wrap my head around how they plan to break even on this show. Prequels never do as well as the originals, even when the original nailed the ending (maybe Star Wars did, but probably not if you adjust for inflation). Then again, I’m not sure how Westworld hasn’t gotten canceled yet, considering the viewership numbers vs. the budget.

The Prequels for Star Wars eventually paid off long term with the Clone Wars series, merchandising, spin-offs, and Ahsoka. It became the Star Wars of an entire generation of New Fans even when it was originally an enormous joke. HBO is paying for about two seasons worth of OR Game of Thrones in hopes that they can bottle lightning twice. Paying twice over is presumably because they want to make the biggest f***ing impression possible.

And as far as I can tell, it's working.

And frankly, I'm inclined to think they probably make up 20 million per episode via t-shirt sales alone.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

The Prequels for Star Wars eventually paid off long term with the Clone Wars series, merchandising, spin-offs, and Ahsoka. It became the Star Wars of an entire generation of New Fans even when it was originally an enormous joke. HBO is paying for about two seasons worth of OR Game of Thrones in hopes that they can bottle lightning twice. Paying twice over is presumably because they want to make the biggest f***ing impression possible.

And as far as I can tell, it's working.

And frankly, I'm inclined to think they probably make up 20 million per episode via t-shirt sales alone.

Is it working though? I’m sure the premiere will attract a sizable audience, but so far the buzz has been. . . underwhelming.

[C.T. Phipps]

24 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Is it working though? I’m sure the premiere will attract a sizable audience, but so far the buzz has been. . . underwhelming.

Actually, I've seen a lot of Never-Gamers change their tune. I expect word of mouth to do the rest.

[Ran]

House of the Dragon has been on Variety's top trending chart for weeks now as one of the ten most talked about TV shows on social media. If you fold in the fact that Game of Thrones trending is often about HotD as well, it's doing very well. Like, right now, all the new shows from Disney+/MCU are dominant because they did their big SDCC thing, but HotD has been a constantly-buzzed show. 

I think that if someone is feeling very negative about ASoIaF and GoT, as @The Bard of Banefort does, one's bound to be subject to confirmation bias.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I very much disagree with the notion that I’m negative about ASOIAF. Just because I don’t want to get my hopes up about TWOW doesn’t erase the years I’ve spent lavishing praise on this series. 

[Ran]

17 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I very much disagree with the notion that I’m negative about ASOIAF. Just because I don’t want to get my hopes up about TWOW doesn’t erase the years I’ve spent lavishing praise on this series. 

You probably don't realize it but consider where the bulk of your posts have been the last few months and consider whether the topics indicate positivity or negativity. Easy enough to review which topics have drawn most of your posting time.

I don't want to make it meta, but since you keep questioning whether HotD will be a success, I think it's only reasonable to point out that this sort of view is largely driven by an internalized negativity you're feeling to the whole thing.