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Immediate consequences of Jon's betrayal of the NW


Rondo
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24 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

First off, hello! Haven't been on in a while, happy to see a friendly name pop up. But yeah, aren't people great? haha 

Hello! And likewise, glad to see there’s still some who go buy the text and appreciate the story the author is telling instead of deranged fanfic. :cheers:

23 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

What will happen then, when the pomegranate cannot make good on his assurances? Because he has neither fArya or Reek....

Oh that pesky text getting in the way again… :lol:

21 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I must've missed the civil letter Ramsay sent merely asking for compliance if fArya & Theon show up at the wall.... It has been a while but iirc Ramsay demanded fArya, Theon, Melisandre, Selyse, & Shireen didn't he? Why would Ramsay cede with a promise to comply IF fArya & Theon show up there? 

The other thing is, there’s this notion that .Bowen & co. will be able to not only stealthy and quickly cover up the assassination attempt, but also deal w/ the black brothers loyal to Jon. Which is insane given the fact that 1. there are people w/ and around Jon and 2. Jon notes in the Shieldhall that the free folk outnumber the crows 5:1. 

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Jon admitted to treason. He won’t get sympathy from the black brothers. What sympathy he will get will come from the Wildlings. 
 

1 hour ago, PrinceAemondTargaryen said:

The traitors who murdered Jon will be dead by the end of TWOW. No doubt.

Jon was the traitor. 

Edited by Moiraine Sedai
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24 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Jon admitted to treason. He won’t get sympathy from the black brothers. What sympathy he will get will come from the Wildlings. 
 

Jon was the traitor. 

Where and when did Jon admit to treason? Care to provide a quote? 
 

I’ll make it real easy for you… Are you referring to this line:
 

If this is oathbreaking, the crime is mine and mine alone.”

 

If you are, the answer is right there. And right here in my reply, given that I don’t know IF that’s what you’re talking about. 
So, no, he doesn’t admit to treason, but acknowledges that other might, or that maybe it is. The only ‘confession’ here is to not knowing for sure whether his actions would be seen as oathbreaking or not, while making sure that his black brothers couldn’t be tied to any possible wrong he’d done. 
At least that’s what the actual text says… Somehow I have a feeling you’ll disagree. 

Edited by kissdbyfire
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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

The other thing is, there’s this notion that .Bowen & co. will be able to not only stealthy and quickly cover up the assassination attempt, but also deal w/ the black brothers loyal to Jon. Which is insane given the fact that 1. there are people w/ and around Jon and 2. Jon notes in the Shieldhall that the free folk outnumber the crows 5:1. 

Oh that pesky text getting in the way.  Jon was not alone when he was stabbed, Rory and Horse were with him

Quote

Horse and Rory fell in beside Jon as he left the Shieldhall. I should talk with Melisandre after I see the queen, he thought. If she could see a raven in a storm, she can find Ramsay Snow for me. Then he heard the shouting … and a roar so loud it seemed to shake the Wall. "That come from Hardin's Tower, m'lord," Horse reported. He might have said more, but the scream cut him off.
Val, was Jon's first thought. But that was no woman's scream. That is a man in mortal agony. He broke into a run. Horse and Rory raced after him. "Is it wights?" asked Rory.    ADWD  Jon XIII

The text also states Jon did not feel the fourth knife, could Rory or Horse have stopped it?  Also, it was snowing and when Jon fell, he felt only cold.  Makes sense, being face down in snow.

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8 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Oh that pesky text getting in the way.  Jon was not alone when he was stabbed, Rory and Horse were with him

The text also states Jon did not feel the fourth knife, could Rory or Horse have stopped it?  Also, it was snowing and when Jon fell, he felt only cold.  Makes sense, being face down in snow.

Leathers is there as well, isn’t he? Jon asks him to talk to Wun Wun… 

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Best to see the passage.  Turns out, not only was Leathers there, but "Northmen, free folk, queen's men..."

The stabbing was not done quietly or in private, it was done in the open with many witnesses.  Jon should be able to get immediate aid.  Also, after seeing Lord Mormont assassinated in a mutiny, many in the Watch may very well not be in the mood for another, and things could go bad quickly for Bowen. 

 

Quote

Horse and Rory fell in beside Jon as he left the Shieldhall. I should talk with Melisandre after I see the queen, he thought. If she could see a raven in a storm, she can find Ramsay Snow for me. Then he heard the shouting … and a roar so loud it seemed to shake the Wall. "That come from Hardin's Tower, m'lord," Horse reported. He might have said more, but the scream cut him off.
Val, was Jon's first thought. But that was no woman's scream. That is a man in mortal agony. He broke into a run. Horse and Rory raced after him. "Is it wights?" asked Rory. Jon wondered. Could his corpses have escaped their chains.

The screaming had stopped by the time they came to Hardin's Tower, but Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun was still roaring. The giant was dangling a bloody corpse by one leg, the same way Arya used to dangle her doll when she was small, swinging it like a morningstar when menaced by vegetables. Arya never tore her dolls to pieces, though. The dead man's sword arm was yards away, the snow beneath it turning red.

Wun Wun did not hear or did not understand. The giant was bleeding himself, with sword cuts on his belly and his arm. He swung the dead knight against the grey stone of the tower, again and again and again, until the man's head was red and pulpy as a summer melon. The knight's cloak flapped in the cold air. Of white wool it had been, bordered in cloth-of-silver and patterned with blue stars. Blood and bone were flying everywhere.

Men poured from the surrounding keeps and towers. Northmen, free folk, queen's men … "Form a line," Jon Snow commanded them. "Keep them back. Everyone, but especially the queen's men." The dead man was Ser Patrek of King's Mountain; his head was largely gone, but his heraldry was as distinctive as his face. Jon did not want to risk Ser Malegorn or Ser Brus or any of the queen's other knights trying to avenge him.

Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun howled again and gave Ser Patrek's other arm a twist and pull. It tore loose from his shoulder with a spray of bright red blood. Like a child pulling petals off a daisy, thought Jon. "Leathers, talk to him, calm him. The Old Tongue, he understands the Old Tongue. Keep back, the rest of you. Put away your steel, we're scaring him." Couldn't they see the giant had been cut? Jon had to put an end to this or more men would die. They had no idea of Wun Wun's strength. A horn, I need a horn. He saw the glint of steel, turned toward it. "No blades!" he screamed. "Wick, put that knife …"

… away, he meant to say. When Wick Whittlestick slashed at his throat, the word turned into a grunt. Jon twisted from the knife, just enough so it barely grazed his skin. He cut me. When he put his hand to the side of his neck, blood welled between his fingers. "Why

"For the Watch." Wick slashed at him again. This time Jon caught his wrist and bent his arm back until he dropped the dagger. The gangling steward backed away, his hands upraised as if to say, Not me, it was not me. Men were screaming. Jon reached for Longclaw, but his fingers had grown stiff and clumsy. Somehow he could not seem to get the sword free of its scabbard.

Then Bowen Marsh stood there before him, tears running down his cheeks. "For the Watch." He punched Jon in the belly. When he pulled his hand away, the dagger stayed where he had buried it.
Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger's hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. "Ghost," he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold …

 

 

 

Edited by LongRider
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41 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Best to see the passage.  Turns out, not only was Leathers there, but "Northmen, free folk, queen's men..."

The stabbing was not done quietly or in private, it was done in the open with many witnesses.  Jon should be able to get immediate aid.  Also, after seeing Lord Mormont assassinated in a mutiny, many in the Watch may very well not be in the mood for another, and things could go bad quickly for Bowen. 

 

 

Yeah, the secretive ‘let's dump this body real quick before someone sees us’ plot many support is very unlikely, to put it mildly. :lol:

And I’ve been convinced things are not going to go well Bowen and co since I first read that chapter, but the point you just raised there is great, and one I hadn’t seen before… and makes perfect sense! Very nice, :cheers:

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Thanks, @kissdbyfire .   My sense is Bowen is in an "anti-Jon" bubble, which started with his association with Janos Slynt and Ser Thorne and others.  While Jon's support from the Watch is mixed, assassination is very radical and the support for that limited.  Bowen has put Wick, himself and any others in on the plot in a world of hurt.  A world of hurt that may come sooner than later.   :fencing:

 

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5 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

The other thing is, there’s this notion that .Bowen & co. will be able to not only stealthy and quickly cover up the assassination attempt, but also deal w/ the black brothers loyal to Jon. Which is insane given the fact that 1. there are people w/ and around Jon and 2. Jon notes in the Shieldhall that the free folk outnumber the crows 5:1.

Oh, don't let a silly thing like actual text get in the way of the fanfic! :)

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On 11/3/2022 at 10:30 AM, PrinceAemondTargaryen said:

The traitors who murdered Jon will be dead by the end of TWOW. No doubt.

We need to post a look out for a runt in disguise carrying around and fondling an undersized sword.  And whispering while caressing the blade, "My Needle, my precious.  My precious."

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Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun toying with a certain someone as if he's a doll, making his head explode like a pomegranate by bashing it to the Wall, chinking it. That bashed pomegranate will serve as fertilizer and from that chink in the Wall a blue flower will grow, filling the air with sweetness. There will be much joy in the wall, especially in the tower.

Edited by Corvo the Crow
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13 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said:

We need to post a look out for a runt in disguise carrying around and fondling an undersized sword.  And whispering while caressing the blade, "My Needle, my precious.  My precious."

That evil blade will have taken many lives by the time she reaches the north.  There will be a long trail of blood.  

Do post a look out for strange horses. Arya might come as a donkey]

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20 hours ago, Bowen Marsh said:

We need to post a look out for a runt in disguise carrying around and fondling an undersized sword.  And whispering while caressing the blade, "My Needle, my precious.  My precious."

6 hours ago, Skahaz mo Kandaq said:

That evil blade will have taken many lives by the time she reaches the north.  There will be a long trail of blood.  

Do post a look out for strange horses. Arya might come as a donkey]

What book are you reading?

Edited by Craving Peaches
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