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Was Gaemon Palehair a half-Targaryan after all?


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Maybe I'm really late to the party on this notion, but it strikes me that Gaemon Palehair could have been Aegon's bastard son after all. If one of the sources can be believed, Aegon was a womanizing pervert. Maybe he really did sleep with Essie and impregnate her. Essie would have said anything to stop the torture, so I have no trouble believing that she was forced to lie about her son's parentage. 

I always thought it was strange how Gaemon could have gained the support of thousands, since who in that misogynistic and judgmental society would believe a random group of prostitutes? They wouldn't believe them unless there was some clear evidence backing them up. It must have been a brothel which Aegon frequented, and he'd been seen discreetly entering and leaving the place. And since it was some gutter in Flea Bottom, nobody important would have noticed or cared if those rumours were milling around. 

I feel stupid for not realising it sooner than this.

Edited by Floki of the Ironborn
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Oh, of course, chances are pretty good that he was actually the father. Or at least that he could have been the father, i.e. that he was both a patron of the brothel and of Essie, specifically.

Another crucial hint there seems to be the simple fact that Aegon II spared Gaemon's life while he executed Tystane (who may have been his half-brother). Granted, Gaemon was much younger and that could explain it, but his mother and her lover  received no mercy, so why spare the child? More importantly: Why spare his life and take him into the royal household? If you spare him, why not give the boy to the Faith or just hand him over to some peasants?

'Gaemon' is also a Targaryen name ... not exactly the kind of name a whore would choose all on her own, indicating that Aegon may have still visited the brothel around the time the boy was born. And if the father was truly a Lysene sailor then a Lysene name seems more likely than a Targaryen name. Although a mundane Westerosi name would be most likely for an unacknwledged royal bastard - just look at most of Robert's children or even Trystane Truefyre.

Aegon III's favoritism towards the boy could also indicate that he was truly of royal blood ... else his court might not have allowed him to spend so much time with the boy. And Aegon III even went as far as to suggest to name Gaemon his heir while he had no sons. We do have strong hints that Aegon III wasn't as clever as his brother Viserys ... but he cannot have been as stupid as to believe that some fake royal bastard had any claim to the Iron Throne or that it was proper to possibly hand his throne to such a person. If he had believed that he could have just as well said they should make Mushroom his heir.

In context, chances are not that bad that Trystane Truefyre was a son of Viserys I. Perkin the Flea, the boy's master and, perhaps, his foster father was in service of Larys Strong ... and in the main series the Master of Whisperers was taking care of the royal bastards. If Viserys I did father any bastards one would imagine he would want to keep them away from Alicent (not so much because he thought she might harm them but rather because he may not have wanted to hurt her feelings), meaning it would make sense if he had his spy master deal with such things.

And that would have given Larys the knowledge to prop up a genuine bastard pretender during the Dance.

We have no idea about Trystane's background or looks, but the lad must have had Targaryen colors, possibly closely resembling Viserys I, or else chances are low that anyone would have followed him. Some black-haired or brown-haired boy wouldn't have been a very popular Targaryen pretender.

Perkin and Larys must have told some story about Trystane's origins Gyldayn fails to mention - who his mother was, that the late king had had an affair with her, that sort of thing - or else their story would also not have been really believable.

And considering that both pretenders were Kingslanders one imagines that it would have been very difficult to create such pretenders from scratch. Folks must have had (good) reasons to believe both stories, i.e. know that Aegon II visited Essie's brothel and be able to connect Trystane's mother to Viserys I in a meaningful capacity. But unfortunately we know nothing about her.

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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

We do have strong hints that Aegon III wasn't as clever as his brother Viserys ... but he cannot have been as stupid as to believe that some fake royal bastard had any claim to the Iron Throne or that it was proper to possibly hand his throne to such a person. If he had believed that he could have just as well said they should make Mushroom his heir.

In fairness, I always figured it was just Aegon III being a sullen little emo throwing out some smartass answer to a genuine concern, like "hey, Gaemon was a king before, right? Make him king again!" Given that his mother was a prostitute executed for treason, I just figured he was being sarcastic and surly.
But even if Aegon III did know that Gaemon was his kin, how did he know? Who would have told him? Did Gaemon know who his father was? When would Aegon have visited him during the war?

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8 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

"hey, Gaemon was a king before, right? Make him king again!"


But even if Aegon III did know that Gaemon was his kin, how did he know? Who would have told him? Did Gaemon know who his father was?

I think that Gaemon did knew that Aegon II was his father, and the one who told him about this was Viserys II. Also Viserys convinced Gaemon that it was Aegon (III) who had poisoned his father (Aegon II), so to avenge his father's death Gaemon poisoned Aegon (III). The real Aegon III died in 135, and after his death Larra Rogare shadow-glamoured Gaemon to look like Aegon, same as Melisandre did with Mance Raider/Rattleshirt. So after 135 and until 157 the 7K were actually ruled by Gaemon (the "Broken King"), who was a figurehead controlled by Larra and Viserys.

Also - Baelor the Blessed and Rhaena the "Septa" were Gaemon's children, while Daeron I, Daena the Defiant and Elaena were Viserys' children, because Larra shadow-glamoured both Gaemon and Viserys into Aegon and occasionally they switched places, so two of Queen Daenaera's children were fathered by Gaemon and three by Viserys II. So Daena and Elaena actually were Aegon IV's half-sisters, not his first cousins, thus Daemon I Blackfyre and Viserys Plumm were actually products of incest between brother and sister/s.

Though those are just my assumptions.

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9 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

In fairness, I always figured it was just Aegon III being a sullen little emo throwing out some smartass answer to a genuine concern, like "hey, Gaemon was a king before, right? Make him king again!" Given that his mother was a prostitute executed for treason, I just figured he was being sarcastic and surly.
But even if Aegon III did know that Gaemon was his kin, how did he know? Who would have told him? Did Gaemon know who his father was? When would Aegon have visited him during the war?

Granted, that was one of the lesser arguments in favor of this idea. Aegon III, who likely never wanted to be king, could have indeed just said: 'Well, when I'm gone, why not just re-crown the last remaining pretender king?'

If Gaemon was truly Aegon II's son then Aegon II himself and the crucial members of his court (Alicent, Larys, Corlys, etc.) either knew themselves or may have learned the truth when the decision was made to not kill the boy and take him in as a ward of the Crown. And from any of those - especially Larys before his arrest and Corlys in the time before his death - Aegon III may have learned that Gaemon was indeed his cousin.

This knowledge could also have led to their friendship. While we can assume that Aegon III may have bonded with pretty much any child reminding him of Viserys, him knowing/believing the boy was his cousin and the court knowing this as well, could explain why he was alllowed to spend time with the boy.

I mean, the fact that a whore's bastard ends up becoming the close companion of a boy king is very weird in itself. I mean, sure, George tells that story to show that even unlikely things can happen, but in context something like that cannot happen if nobody at his court approves of such a friendship ... and we should assume that pretty much nobody would actually approve of it if Gaemon was truly just a whore's bastard.

If Aegon's regents had decided that the king should not spend time with Gaemon, they would have been separated. Just as Gaemon would have been sent away from court if the regents had felt he was a bad influence on the king.

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1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

Granted, that was one of the lesser arguments in favor of this idea. Aegon III, who likely never wanted to be king, could have indeed just said: 'Well, when I'm gone, why not just re-crown the last remaining pretender king?'

If Gaemon was truly Aegon II's son then Aegon II himself and the crucial members of his court (Alicent, Larys, Corlys, etc.) either knew themselves or may have learned the truth when the decision was made to not kill the boy and take him in as a ward of the Crown. And from any of those - especially Larys before his arrest and Corlys in the time before his death - Aegon III may have learned that Gaemon was indeed his cousin.

This knowledge could also have led to their friendship. While we can assume that Aegon III may have bonded with pretty much any child reminding him of Viserys, him knowing/believing the boy was his cousin and the court knowing this as well, could explain why he was alllowed to spend time with the boy.

I mean, the fact that a whore's bastard ends up becoming the close companion of a boy king is very weird in itself. I mean, sure, George tells that story to show that even unlikely things can happen, but in context something like that cannot happen if nobody at his court approves of such a friendship ... and we should assume that pretty much nobody would actually approve of it if Gaemon was truly just a whore's bastard.

If Aegon's regents had decided that the king should not spend time with Gaemon, they would have been separated. Just as Gaemon would have been sent away from court if the regents had felt he was a bad influence on the king.

To be fair, Gaemon wasn’t in a position of great privilege. A cupbearer was just a personal servant position, one which promises no rank or titles or even a promotion. He was also the food taster, which meant that he would potentially die to save Aegon’s life (that’s what ended up happening too). And thirdly, he became the whipping boy for Gareth to abuse in order to blackmail Aegon. 

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I have zero doubt that Gaemon was AegonII's son . or at least it was highly believed by both Aegons and their lords that Gaemon was his .

in addition to the OP and Lord Varys's reasons , Gaemon was held with Aegon III during the hour of the wolf . why would anyone think of holding a harmless nobody orphan with the single most important person in Westeros who's the key to holding the kingdom? they could keep the kid almost anywhere and keep an eye on him in case someone wants to exploit him in usurpation plans.. what.. did they have shortage of guards?! AND later Aegon the younger thinks it's a good idea to name Gaemon his heir . while we are told Aegon's not as curious as Viserys , we are never told he is stupid or that he says anything just to mock something or sulk. besides , with what we know of Aegon , he didn't like war . so I assume he had a strong belief that Gaemon is Targaryen enough to be his heir and acceptable to lords of Westeros. 

52 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

To be fair, Gaemon wasn’t in a position of great privilege. A cupbearer was just a personal servant position, one which promises no rank or titles or even a promotion. He was also the food taster, which meant that he would potentially die to save Aegon’s life (that’s what ended up happening too). And thirdly, he became the whipping boy for Gareth to abuse in order to blackmail Aegon. 

 but he wasn't in a low position either . he was cupbearer to the king . he was given the opportunity to become friends with the king . and yes he was made food taster but the fact is if he was AegonII's bastard , the only two options probably best seen by the regents for him would have been to be close enough to Aegon III to be loyal or to die . and then Peake made him the whipping boy ; but that's just Peake , he also killed Jaehaera.

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1 hour ago, Canon Claude said:

To be fair, Gaemon wasn’t in a position of great privilege. A cupbearer was just a personal servant position, one which promises no rank or titles or even a promotion. He was also the food taster, which meant that he would potentially die to save Aegon’s life (that’s what ended up happening too). And thirdly, he became the whipping boy for Gareth to abuse in order to blackmail Aegon. 

The position of cupbearer to the king is one of the most prolific at court. It means you are very close to the king's person. This is not something that a common servant could aspire to become ... rather it is a position that's given to highborn children as part of their training. The first sign that Viserys I was grooming Rhaenyra to be his heir was when he made her his own cupbearer which happened before she was formally named Heir Apparent and Princess of Dragonstone.

We also hear that Egg served as cupbearer during Small Council meetings in the reign of his grandfather.

This position most definitely means advancement and career boosts, especially if given to you as a child. Had Gaemon Palehair lived, he might have very well ended up as a great lord in his own right, sitting on Aegon III's Small Council or even serving him as Hand.

And as has pointed out already - Gaemon was only made a food taster and whipping boy later when the Peake gang took over the government. That wasn't in the interest of Aegon III or the court gang when the regency administration was set up.

23 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

in addition to the OP and Lord Varys's reasons , Gaemon was held with Aegon III during the hour of the wolf . why would anyone think of holding a harmless nobody orphan with the single most important person in Westeros who's the key to holding the kingdom? they could keep the kid almost anywhere and keep an eye on him in case someone wants to exploit him in usurpation plans.. what.. did they have shortage of guards?!

That is indeed strange. It means that whoever decided that must have at least associated Gaemon more with royalty than with his executed commonborn whore mother.

We see how people put in Jeyne Poole with Sansa Stark ... but Jeyne wasn't a commoner nor a bastard but a minor noblewoman herself and Sansa's closest friend. And Cersei quickly corrects that mistake once she finds out - but nobody ever separated Aegon and Gaemon.

Going on a little bit about the name Gaemon here. Gaemon the Glorious seems to be the guy Gaemon Palehair is named after, and one imagines that Essie could have only named her son after that guy if Aegon II had told her about some of his great ancestors. The average whore should not know all that much about the distant ancestors of Aegon the Conqueror. The idea that anyone would pick the name of one of the children of Alysanne who died in the cradle is not very likely.

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4 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

He was also the food taster, which meant that he would potentially die to save Aegon’s life (that’s what ended up happening too).

Nope, that's not what happened.

If GRRM will ever publish TWOW, ADOS and F&B-V2, then the readers will find out the truth that "Gaemon", that in 135AC died from poisoning and was burried, actually was Aegon III's corpse, shadow-glamoured to look like dead Gaemon, while the real Gaemon got shadow-glamoured by Larra Rogare (who was a shadowbinder like Melisandre) to impersonate Aegon, which he (Gaemon) did until his death in 157. More info here: Swan Song part 3/16. Larra Rogare - a chameleon and a cat-woman

Skip there down to sections -  The Poisoning, The Secret Siege, and The Reign of Chameleons. I explained there what really happened to Aegon III and Gaemon.

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All of this makes a lot of sense. I can easily buy that Aegon II really was Gaemon's father. That also makes me wonder, though. If Viserys had never returned, could Aegon have legitimized Gaemon once he came of age? That would have made him a prince of House Targaryen and the heir apparent.

Edited by James Steller
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12 minutes ago, James Steller said:

All of this makes a lot of sense. I can easily buy that Aegon II really was Gaemon's father. That also makes me wonder, though. If Viserys had never returned, could Aegon have legitimized Gaemon once he came of age? That would have made him a prince of House Targaryen and the heir apparent.

technically he could. but Gaemon was a prostitute's son after all . the lords of the realm would've only let Aegon do that if the situation was pretty drastic as in neither Aegon nor his sisters had any hope of having an heir of their own body . otherwise , if Aegon made a decision like that , no one would have accepted it.

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46 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

technically he could. but Gaemon was a prostitute's son after all . the lords of the realm would've only let Aegon do that if the situation was pretty drastic as in neither Aegon nor his sisters had any hope of having an heir of their own body . otherwise , if Aegon made a decision like that , no one would have accepted it.

Not to mention that Gaemon is descended from the Green faction. A conspiracy would have emerged to kill off Aegon III and replace him with Gaemon.

And that’s not me saying that Gaemon would actively conspire against Aegon, it could easily be done without Gaemon’s knowledge.

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23 hours ago, James Steller said:

All of this makes a lot of sense. I can easily buy that Aegon II really was Gaemon's father. That also makes me wonder, though. If Viserys had never returned, could Aegon have legitimized Gaemon once he came of age? That would have made him a prince of House Targaryen and the heir apparent.

Not very likely since Aegon III had a wife and children of his own eventually, and it stands to reason that Baela's second child might actually turn out to be the son who is going to continue House Velaryon (and who would have been Aegon's presumptive heir until Daeron I was born).

I could see Aegon III ennobling Gaemon, though. Making him a lord in his own right, with a pretty big income, and finding an heiress for him to marry.

22 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Not to mention that Gaemon is descended from the Green faction. A conspiracy would have emerged to kill off Aegon III and replace him with Gaemon.

And that’s not me saying that Gaemon would actively conspire against Aegon, it could easily be done without Gaemon’s knowledge.

The Greens seem to pretty much collapse and disintegrate as a faction. The Hightowers become effectively Black due to the influence of Lady Sam and Lyonel's friendship with Alyn Velaryon, and the Lannisters and Baratheons were never all that fervent Greens to begin with (and Tyland Lannister becomes a loyal follower of King Aegon III).

Not to mention that Unwin Peake - supposedly a fervent Green - ends up murdering Queen Jaehaera and trying to control the Iron Throne via Aegon III or Viserys II - who both happen to be sons of Rhaenyra Targaryen.

The Blacks are also no longer unified bloc - Cregan Stark had different interests than the Lads and the others during the Hour of the Wolf,

Mind you, there seems to be still bad blood because of the war in the aftermath of the Dance ... but that's because of what happened during the war, not because of the factions you backed there.

When the regency council discusses the succession they are pretty sure that they will all dance again if Aegon III dies ... and that's not because of 'Blacks and Greens' (all pretenders they are discussing are team Black since there are no Green Targaryens left) but because various people will end up propping up various pretenders for their own reasons - some of which have to do with grievances and slights and humiliations they suffered during the Dance.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Not to mention that Unwin Peake - supposedly a fervent Green - ends up murdering Queen Jaehaera and trying to control the Iron Throne via Aegon III or Viserys II - who both happen to be sons of Rhaenyra Targaryen.

I never did understand how Unwin Peake could be so arrogant and stupid to assume he could control Aegon or Viserys. They both showed from a very early age that they would rather die than become enthralled to anyone. Aegon was willing to burn his bridges with Torrhen Manderly to send a message. Even if Peake had succeeded in marrying his daughter to Aegon, did he really think he could keep Aegon under his thumb? Aegon was clearly just waiting for his chance to take power as a man grown.

Edited by James Steller
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7 hours ago, James Steller said:

I never did understand how Unwin Peake could be so arrogant and stupid to assume he could control Aegon or Viserys. They both showed from a very early age that they would rather die than become enthralled to anyone. Aegon was willing to burn his bridges with Torrhen Manderly to send a message. Even if Peake had succeeded in marrying his daughter to Aegon, did he really think he could keep Aegon under his thumb? Aegon was clearly just waiting for his chance to take power as a man grown.

Apparently Peake thought just something like that.

And while he was de facto king dominating the court completely this wasn't that far-fetched an idea. Once Aegon III was securely married to his daughter he would do as he pleased ... or be replaced by whatever sons Aegon III fathered on Myrielle.

While the Peake gang was running things there was also no chance Aegon III could build a power base of his own which would have been necessary to dismiss Peake eventually. Aegon III can only be the cool guy at the end of the Regency because he has Sandoq the Shadow, a trio of powerless regents chosen by lot, and a Hand who didn't really want to dominate him.

If Unwin had stayed in office, if the Hand's Fingers hadn't been dealt with, if Peake's entire gang hadn't lost their power in the wake of the Secret Siege, if the regents hadn't all died (save Munkun) so they had to choose new regents by lot, etc. Aegon III wouldn't have been able to take charge as he did.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Apparently Peake thought just something like that.

And while he was de facto king dominating the court completely this wasn't that far-fetched an idea. Once Aegon III was securely married to his daughter he would do as he pleased ... or be replaced by whatever sons Aegon III fathered on Myrielle.

While the Peake gang was running things there was also no chance Aegon III could build a power base of his own which would have been necessary to dismiss Peake eventually. Aegon III can only be the cool guy at the end of the Regency because he has Sandoq the Shadow, a trio of powerless regents chosen by lot, and a Hand who didn't really want to dominate him.

If Unwin had stayed in office, if the Hand's Fingers hadn't been dealt with, if Peake's entire gang hadn't lost their power in the wake of the Secret Siege, if the regents hadn't all died (save Munkun) so they had to choose new regents by lot, etc. Aegon III wouldn't have been able to take charge as he did.

The day that Aegon turns sixteen, then he is a king, the ruler of an absolute monarchy. He would have had the power to dismiss anyone he no longer approved of. You think he'd keep Gareth Long at the Red Keep once he was a man grown? And I don't care how good a swordsman Long is, he's not going to disobey a direct command from his king.

And moreover, what's Unwin going to do about it if Aegon dismisses him? What will the regents do? Their power ends the day that Aegon turns 16. Only the stupidest of them would have assumed they could stick around and keep making decisions for the king. Especially someone like Aegon III.

The only people that he couldn't remove were those Kingsguard members that Peake planted, but they wouldn't dare do anything against their own king, not even Amaury was low enough to do that. 

Also, Torrhen did want to dominate Aegon, he just wasn't as ruthless about it as Unwin. He was definitely trying to steer Aegon in a certain direct, planning out an entire year of his life, promoting this grand tour in his own name, acting like he knew best. GRRM - I mean, Gyldayn -  emphasises just how shocking of a scene it is when Aegon takes control. Torrhen takes it personally, and never forgives his king. But Aegon doesn't care, he's off to find his own Hand because that's his ability as monarch.

I'm beginning to think that Unwin really was that stupid. Not even a marriage to his daughter would have stopped Aegon from commanding him and taking charge, even dismissing him from court. His only hope would have been to get Aegon to impregnate his daughter, then kill Aegon before he came of age. That's the only way he would have ever kept any semblance of power. 

Edited by James Steller
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4 hours ago, James Steller said:

I'm beginning to think that Unwin really was that stupid. Not even a marriage to his daughter would have stopped Aegon from commanding him and taking charge, even dismissing him from court. His only hope would have been to get Aegon to impregnate his daughter, then kill Aegon before he came of age. That's the only way he would have ever kept any semblance of power. 

I'm not so sure about that , though . yes this would have been the safest plan for Unwin . No Aegon, no problem. he could also take the king into his custody on account of king's inability to rule due to his mental health or something if he could gain the lords' support. but it's not just that, Aegon III 's depression was somewhat better with Viserys and Daenaera by his side . if all he had was Myrielle , don't you think he'd listen to her "suggestions"? or don't you think Peake's continuous gaslighting would make Aegon just want to brood all day and eventually even accept that he's not able as Peake says?

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9 hours ago, James Steller said:

The day that Aegon turns sixteen, then he is a king, the ruler of an absolute monarchy. He would have had the power to dismiss anyone he no longer approved of. You think he'd keep Gareth Long at the Red Keep once he was a man grown? And I don't care how good a swordsman Long is, he's not going to disobey a direct command from his king.

Peake obviously was trying to control the king to the point that he was ruling him, not the other way around. And he did that by completely surrounding him with men loyal to him - not to Aegon III or House Targaryen. And if Aegon had married Myrielle they would have been family, and the stick may have been replaced with the carrot.

What gave Aegon III the strength to stand up to people was the return of Viserys, basically.

9 hours ago, James Steller said:

And moreover, what's Unwin going to do about it if Aegon dismisses him? What will the regents do? Their power ends the day that Aegon turns 16. Only the stupidest of them would have assumed they could stick around and keep making decisions for the king. Especially someone like Aegon III.

Of course, the regents would have to step down when Aegon III came of age. But the system Peake tried to set up meant that he and his people would remain - since he was not just one of the regents but also the Hand and the Protector of the Realm. And all his people took offices that didn't have an expiration date. If Peake had kept those offices and not made the mistake to offer to stand down ... then the somewhat dysfunctional but still working oversight of the regency council would have been replaced by a monarch of sixteen years who seemed to have neither the ability nor the interest to take an active hand in his government.

9 hours ago, James Steller said:

The only people that he couldn't remove were those Kingsguard members that Peake planted, but they wouldn't dare do anything against their own king, not even Amaury was low enough to do that.

I think Peake actually did control the KG to the point that he thought he could command them to escort the king back to his chambers - be he an adult or not - and they would obey him, not the king.

But I'd disagree that a king in charge of his government can also rid himself of unwanted KG. Jaehaerys I sent them to the Wall, so a different king could do the same. All they would need is to come up with some pretext ... or just command them to take the black.

9 hours ago, James Steller said:

Also, Torrhen did want to dominate Aegon, he just wasn't as ruthless about it as Unwin. He was definitely trying to steer Aegon in a certain direct, planning out an entire year of his life, promoting this grand tour in his own name, acting like he knew best. GRRM - I mean, Gyldayn -  emphasises just how shocking of a scene it is when Aegon takes control. Torrhen takes it personally, and never forgives his king. But Aegon doesn't care, he's off to find his own Hand because that's his ability as monarch.

Sure, Torrhen made plans for Aegon III. But the mistake he made was apparently not to double-check with Aegon III whether he wanted to go on a progress or not. He seems to have thought that the king would follow his advice and guidance there, failing to understand that the sullen boy had a mind of his own.

Manderly is hurt when Aegon brutally sacks him ... but he never wanted to use his position as Hand to control his king or be king in his stead (unlike Peake).

9 hours ago, James Steller said:

I'm beginning to think that Unwin really was that stupid. Not even a marriage to his daughter would have stopped Aegon from commanding him and taking charge, even dismissing him from court. His only hope would have been to get Aegon to impregnate his daughter, then kill Aegon before he came of age. That's the only way he would have ever kept any semblance of power. 

I think you are mistaken about Aegon's state of mind prior to the marriage to Daenaera and Viserys' return. Both helped him to come into his own more. These events were crucial to getting rid of Peake and subsequently his gang. If Viserys hadn't come back and Aegon had been married to Myrielle rather than to Alyn and Baela's foster daughter, then it should have been much easier for Peake to control Aegon. And he wouldn't have had the strength or the will to fight back. I mean, even with Viserys and Daenaera and Larra Aegon nearly buys into the charade of the conspirators and believes that Thaddeus Rowan was a traitor who tried to murder him and his queen. If Viserys hadn't intervened there, Aegon may have been broken then and there, resulting in him giving up and allowing the people around him to do whatever the hell they wanted to do.

And that Aegon can take charge the way he does is because the Peake gang and other factions had been ousted before, in the aftermath of the Secret Siege and the informal Great Council. If Peake or some other lord had controlled the court and the king the way Unwin did earlier, then it would have been much more difficult for Aegon to take power into his own hands.

A king like Aegon III could have been easily controlled by keeping him into his chambers most of the time. He would not be very inclined to do much, considering he didn't speak for days.

If Aegon III had been a different (i.e. more forceful) person - like his son, Daeron I, for instance - then neither his regents nor Peake would have tried to pull something like this. But Aegon III character pretty much invited people to rule in his stead - the good people would do it because they thought the king couldn't and they were acting in his best interest ... and the bad people would smell weakness and a power vacuum they themselves could fill.

4 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I'm not so sure about that , though . yes this would have been the safest plan for Unwin . No Aegon, no problem. he could also take the king into his custody on account of king's inability to rule due to his mental health or something if he could gain the lords' support. but it's not just that, Aegon III 's depression was somewhat better with Viserys and Daenaera by his side . if all he had was Myrielle , don't you think he'd listen to her "suggestions"? or don't you think Peake's continuous gaslighting would make Aegon just want to brood all day and eventually even accept that he's not able as Peake says?

Yeah, Peake certainly thought that Aegon III would grow to like and listen to Myrielle.

If Peake could staff, say, the entire Small Council with his goons then nobody would later demand that the king attend their meetings, etc. Things could continue as they did while Aegon III was still a minor.

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