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Moments that pulled you out of the story


Groo
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When I first read the books, there were a few times when I was pulled out of the story. The biggest, by far, was early in ASOS. I was reading along in Sansa’s first chapter and I got to this line.

“He kissed me and threatened to kill me, and made me sing him a song.”

What?! That’s not what happened. I was sure there was no kiss but I needed to check to make sure I wasn’t losing my mind. I put down the book, went back to ACOK, and read that scene again. No kiss. How could the editors have missed this? This was before I started looking at forums or knew anything about the “unkiss”. I was reading the paperback version of a best seller so it seemed unlikely that this was an editing error. Was this just bad writing? Did Martin just change his mind about how he wanted the story to go, like some bad TV show? I was done reading for the day.

The next day I decided to just keep on reading. Six hundred pages and a few days later, I started to get an idea what Martin was up to. This whole unkiss business was one of the reasons I eventually started visiting forums.

What moments pulled you out of the story the first time you read it?

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35 minutes ago, Groo said:

When I first read the books, there were a few times when I was pulled out of the story. The biggest, by far, was early in ASOS. I was reading along in Sansa’s first chapter and I got to this line.

“He kissed me and threatened to kill me, and made me sing him a song.”

What?! That’s not what happened. I was sure there was no kiss but I needed to check to make sure I wasn’t losing my mind. I put down the book, went back to ACOK, and read that scene again. No kiss. How could the editors have missed this? This was before I started looking at forums or knew anything about the “unkiss”. I was reading the paperback version of a best seller so it seemed unlikely that this was an editing error. Was this just bad writing? Did Martin just change his mind about how he wanted the story to go, like some bad TV show? I was done reading for the day.

The next day I decided to just keep on reading. Six hundred pages and a few days later, I started to get an idea what Martin was up to. This whole unkiss business was one of the reasons I eventually started visiting forums.

What moments pulled you out of the story the first time you read it?

Ironically, I think GRRM did change his mind about the night of the Blackwater, just not about the Unkiss part. The comic adaptation, TV adaptation (which he wrote), and even the app all removed/don’t mention the Hound putting a knife to Sansa’s throat. Even in AFFC, Sansa no longer thinks about the “threatening to kill me” part. It makes me think that he went back and decided that this was a step too far, and is now doing a kind of soft retcon. 

Man. Fans have been waiting 20 years to find out what the hell the Unkiss is. It’s so depressing.

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12 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Ironically, I think GRRM did change his mind about the night of the Blackwater, just not about the Unkiss part. The comic adaptation, TV adaptation (which he wrote), and even the app all removed/don’t mention the Hound putting a knife to Sansa’s throat. Even in AFFC, Sansa no longer thinks about the “threatening to kill me” part. It makes me think that he went back and decided that this was a step too far, and is now doing a kind of soft retcon. 

It's still in the book, though, so I'm not sure how much it all helps.

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59 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Victarion wearing a squid helm.  He was so serious but this conjures up ridiculous images in my mind. 

I have the same reaction to Harys Swift in yellow breeches and a yellow cloak with a chicken sigil on his breast. It's hard to take that seriously.

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For me it’s the Battle of the Blackwater. Stannis’ fleet gets immolated but then everyone inside the walls is panicking and throwing down their arms like it’s the fall of Troy because some sallies got turned back and some dudes managed to cross the river on a literal bridge of burning ships. You’re in a city with giant walls and the POVs are in a castle in a city with even bigger walls, chill out they haven’t even taken a section of wall yet. I don’t mind a big dumb battle but the blackwater is just condensing way too much shit into way too small a timeframe for me to take it seriously.

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2 minutes ago, Trigger Warning said:

For me it’s the Battle of the Blackwater. Stannis’ fleet gets immolated but then everyone inside the walls is panicking and throwing down their arms like it’s the fall of Troy because some sallies got turned back and some dudes managed to cross the river on a literal bridge of burning ships. You’re in a city with giant walls and the POVs are in a castle in a city with even bigger walls, chill out they haven’t even taken a section of wall yet. I don’t mind a big dumb battle but the blackwater is just condensing way too much shit into way too small a timeframe for me to take it seriously.

I had a similar reaction to Mance's attack on the Wall. The brothers 700 feet up are freaking out about the wildings charging the Wall with their chariots and horses. What were they going to do? Run the chariots vertically up the Wall? When you're manning a high wall, the last thing you're worried about are idiots on horseback charging you.

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4 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Also, the fact that Mance agreed to rescue the sister of the guy who just gave him a crushing defeat and made him lose everything.

Interesting, I didn't think that was a problem. His baby was being held by the Watch; He was under the ruby's power; He easily could have been killed for not complying; Going to Winterfell would let him test how far the ruby's power reached; He might gain some leverage back on Jon. Of course, you're right that nothing I've listed addresses the emotional truth of the situation or the fact that we know Mance feels things deeply.

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7 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Also, the fact that Mance agreed to rescue the sister of the guy who just gave him a crushing defeat and made him lose everything.

Beats burning to death, no?

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2 hours ago, Groo said:

Interesting, I didn't think that was a problem. His baby was being held by the Watch; He was under the ruby's power; He easily could have been killed for not complying; Going to Winterfell would let him test how far the ruby's power reached; He might gain some leverage back on Jon. Of course, you're right that nothing I've listed addresses the emotional truth of the situation or the fact that we know Mance feels things deeply.

He seemed to feel most deeply about getting his people south of the Wall. 

Edited by James Arryn
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19 hours ago, Groo said:

I have the same reaction to Harys Swift in yellow breeches and a yellow cloak with a chicken sigil on his breast. It's hard to take that seriously.

Hes meant to be ridiculous. A squid helmet, or one with antlers on it is supposed to be badass, but it's not lol... Although when Tyrion was offered a monster helmet he laughed at the ridiculousness of it, so maybe GRRM knows. I think the snarling dog helmet was weird too, but then that Rorge and now Lem have gotten hold of it, I actually think it's kinda badass lol

14 hours ago, Trigger Warning said:

For me it’s the Battle of the Blackwater. Stannis’ fleet gets immolated but then everyone inside the walls is panicking and throwing down their arms like it’s the fall of Troy because some sallies got turned back and some dudes managed to cross the river on a literal bridge of burning ships. You’re in a city with giant walls and the POVs are in a castle in a city with even bigger walls, chill out they haven’t even taken a section of wall yet. I don’t mind a big dumb battle but the blackwater is just condensing way too much shit into way too small a timeframe for me to take it seriously.

I thought it was kinda cool. Decisive victory for Tyrion. That would have been more clear if Cersei wasnt sloshed or if Tywin and Petyr weren't so good at p.r.

But as it is many soldiers fought, that's why it took a while day for multiple kg to knight them

14 hours ago, Groo said:

I had a similar reaction to Mance's attack on the Wall. The brothers 700 feet up are freaking out about the wildings charging the Wall with their chariots and horses. What were they going to do? Run the chariots vertically up the Wall? When you're manning a high wall, the last thing you're worried about are idiots on horseback charging you.

They only needed one gate to brake, and there were like tens of thousands of them.

21 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Beats burning to death, no?

I would say so, in fact that's exactly what Mance said.

 

 

Ok so I've read these books a ridiculous amount of times, but some scenes, the real tough ones. The heart wrenching shit, well Ive read those more. Lol. So I'm reading this terrible scene, and there was some wording that caught my eye. (It was about grumkins, and I love grumkins) Very strange wording, I regrettably laughed at it. 

Quote

Edwyn wrenched himself away from her with unseemly violence. "No," he said, too loudly. "I'm done with dancing for the nonce." Dacey paled and turned away. Catelyn got slowly to her feet. What just happened there? Doubt gripped her heart, where an instant before had been only weariness. It is nothing, she tried to tell herself, you are seeing grumkins in the woodpile, you are become an old silly woman sick with grief and fear. But something must have shown on her face. Even Ser Wendel Manderly took note. "Is something amiss?"

I don't remember how I found the real expression, I may have googled the sentence and the real phrase popped up or maybe it was from some old timey book that I read and there it was. (There's a whole wiki article that I refuse to post)

Real disgusting shit. Not just because of the obvious slur, but because it implies wickedness, trickery and obviously condones scapegoating based off racial profiling.

So what'd GRRM know? He's an older gentleman so it's possible he heard that phrase growing up, also he's a reader so it's possible he picked it up there. But why include this? Then! Out of all times. The scene you know I wanna reread. I like to think he pulled us out of story to show the horrible world we live in, or at least used to. And is not supporting the phrase or casting doubt on Catelyns morality

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Just now, Lord Lannister said:

I always thought that unreliable narrator line was just a cop out that he goofed in keeping facts straight.

Nah he does this shit on purpose. And Sansa just had an extremely traumatic experience, toppled with her traumatic life. It makes sense her mind wasn't all there. Plus they keep bringing it back up, that wouldn't have happened if it was an accident.

My favorite is Barris memory. It's so bad! But it happens within the books. ASOS and ASOS or adwd and adwd. I think having unreliable narrators adds a bunch t of depressing realism to the story

 

 

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Dany getting her army. I was rather shocked how stupid the Good Masters were, to ask for a dragon, but not mention or even caring about how to control it, let alone that they would give Dany their entire army and leave themselves no one to protect them. I remember someone on this board once comparing it to someone trading a diamond for a new gun in the desert and the person handing over the gun being too stupid to realize he'd just have the gun turned on himself once the deal was complete.

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