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Moments that pulled you out of the story


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On 4/28/2022 at 7:08 PM, Trigger Warning said:

the Battle of the Blackwater. Stannis’ fleet gets immolated but then everyone inside the walls is panicking and throwing down their arms like it’s the fall of Troy because some sallies got turned back and some dudes managed to cross the river on a literal bridge of burning ships

I kept asking myself why is it so important for Stanis to breach the mudd gate? Why risk a naval landing? A naval approach to KL that was not scouted? All of KL blacksmith were hammering out chain links and no intel about this? Better  military options would be available to Stanis wouldn’t there?

There are theory’s of peoples emotions being manipulated in the book along with illusions. Maybe on a mass scale?
 

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3 hours ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

I kept asking myself why is it so important for Stanis to breach the mudd gate? Why risk a naval landing? A naval approach to KL that was not scouted? All of KL blacksmith were hammering out chain links and no intel about this? Better  military options would be available to Stanis wouldn’t there?

There are theory’s of peoples emotions being manipulated in the book along with illusions. Maybe on a mass scale?
 

He could have blockaded the river and sailed his army around to the North side and prepared safely, crossing his entire army back and forth within range of the defenders not only on the walls but also within the citadel and then dumping them on the shore under the defences to begin assaulting huge walls makes little sense other than in the context of an action scene which is basically what everything in the Blackwater revolves around. 

Some people say he did it because he had little time with enemies in the field but that's just as stupid.  You don't begin a siege of a city with massive walls and a humongous citadel on the assumption that it's going to be a quick affair. Maybe you could say him interpreting Mel's visions of Renly defeating Stannis gave him confidence after Renly's death but I still don't see why that'd push him to make such decisions. 

The bigger issue this raises is that everyone considers Stannis militarily competent and the fandom in particular considers him to be some sort of military genius yet GRRM makes him do these things for the sake of a big action spectacle so maybe it's less that he's particularly militarily gifted and more that he's just ridiculously tenacious with the tunnel vision on his goals which that may entail. 

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Stannis not taking Mel with him into battle, might be the dumbest thing GRRM has ever written. GRRM really went out of his way to make sure the Lannister had as many advantages ass possible in that battle. Not only does Stannis get rid of his red priestess who can see into the future, but he also makes a complete idiot admiral to his fleet, who leads them all into an obvious trap.

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I was genuinely upset by the Muppet names TWOIAF.

it took me out of the story and made me feel rediculous for spending thousands of hours on these books.

then I got over it and read the books 13x. Not joking lol

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23 hours ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

I kept asking myself why is it so important for Stanis to breach the mudd gate? Why risk a naval landing? A naval approach to KL that was not scouted? All of KL blacksmith were hammering out chain links and no intel about this? Better  military options would be available to Stanis wouldn’t there?

There are theory’s of peoples emotions being manipulated in the book along with illusions. Maybe on a mass scale?
 

TBF, KL had been defended the same for centuries, and Stannis knew that the riverside defences were the weakest. No boom had been erected during any BW invasion, Robert’s Rebellion, the Dance, etc. There was no reason for Stannis to think such an innovation would suddenly appear in the little time a provisional inexperienced Hand whose only reputation was for drunken debauchery was in charge. 
 

Moreover, it was the boom coupled with Wildfyre that proved his undoing, and WF hadn’t been thought to really exist anymore. 

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14 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Stannis knew that the riverside defences were the weakest.

It just makes me think there may be more reasons for his attack plan. Like why do the wildlings want to go through the castle black gate when going over it would have been much easier. Blackwater castle black?

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8 hours ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

It just makes me think there may be more reasons for his attack plan. Like why do the wildlings want to go through the castle black gate when going over it would have been much easier. Blackwater castle black?

I assume that reason why wildlings attacked CB was that all other tunnels under the Wall were sealed with ice and stone. Or they had to somehow gain access to at least one open tunnel if they wanted to bring all their people beyond the Wall. After all without that access anyone who could not climb would had to use either Bridge of Skulls or some kind boats or rafts to sail at Shivering Sea to bypass the Wall. 

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16 hours ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

It just makes me think there may be more reasons for his attack plan. Like why do the wildlings want to go through the castle black gate when going over it would have been much easier. Blackwater castle black?

Going over was shown to be very hazardous for the warrior wildlings experienced at doing so. It’s a near impossibility for whole societies of children, sick, elderly, etc. 

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15 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

I assume that reason why wildlings attacked CB was that all other tunnels under the Wall were sealed

 

7 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Going over was shown to be very hazardous for the warrior wildlings

I just feel there may be another reason. Something with the number of people that climbed the wall was the same number in another event. Like maybe beyond the wall is the land of the dead. They have to climb up the well to enter the land of the living. The frozen tunnel representing a well and coming into this realm. Or something I don’t know

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