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NFL - 2022 Draft and Onward


Maithanet
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Would imagine that suspension cripples the Browns this year when you consider how stacked the AFC is.  I wonder how tempted they are for Jimmy G. He keeps the ship afloat till early December and Watson helps them grab a wild card. Idk, can see it happening. Suppose that's not a terrible scenario for Jimmy when you consider the O line and running backs. He also might not care to sit behind Lance this year and see who his suitors are next year. 

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4 hours ago, dbunting said:

Didn't say he was suspended or mention money. Said he will miss 28 games. To a competitor that kills you. 28 games of his prime years.  

yeah, I'm sure a guy who came a bunch on massage parlors is very, very upset that they got paid several million dollars to continue to do that over and over while not being mauled by 300 pound men

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16 hours ago, KalVsWade said:

yeah, I'm sure a guy who came a bunch on massage parlors is very, very upset that they got paid several million dollars to continue to do that over and over while not being mauled by 300 pound men

Not sure what your point is. I have from the beginning said he is a POS and I would be happy if he never played again. Is he suspended long enough at 11 games, not in my opinion, is his fine large enough, not in my opinion. 

Missing 28 games in the NFL is a big deal, that is my only point.

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47 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Not sure what your point is. I have from the beginning said he is a POS and I would be happy if he never played again. Is he suspended long enough at 11 games, not in my opinion, is his fine large enough, not in my opinion. 

Missing 28 games in the NFL is a big deal, that is my only point.

My point is that for someone like him, it's not a big deal and is probably a feature. 

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22 minutes ago, briantw said:

 

 

JI call bullshit because they were willing to hazard all of those and more, with much less of a leg to stand on, to keep Kaepernick from playing, for kneeling, which is only maybe twice as bad as sexually assaulting a platoon of women. 

Edited by James Arryn
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7 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

JI call bullshit because they were willing to hazard all of those and more, with much less of a leg to stand on, to keep Kaepernick from playing, for kneeling, which is only maybe twice as bad as sexually assaulting a platoon of women. 

I'd say the difference there is that Kaep wasn't good enough for anyone to fight for.  If he'd been a top ten QB when he knelt, no one would have done shit to him, but since he was playing like a backup when he made his stand, he was expendable.

It's easy to blackball a guy who isn't great.  The NFL did it with Ray Rice too, and more recently when they threw Gruden (deservedly, but still) under the bus.

Edited by briantw
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10 minutes ago, briantw said:

I'd say the difference there is that Kaep wasn't good enough for anyone to fight for.  If he'd been a top ten QB when he knelt, no one would have done shit to him, but since he was playing like a backup when he made his stand, he was expendable.

It's easy to blackball a guy who isn't great.  The NFL did it with Ray Rice too, and more recently when they threw Gruden (deservedly, but still) under the bus.

His quarterback rating in his last season was 90.7*, ranking 16th. This ‘backup’ shit is part of the spin doctoring people bought into at the time to rationalize his treatment. 


Playing for Jim Tomsula, mind you, with virtually no support, and dealing with injuries that required 3 different offseason surgeries. 

Edited by James Arryn
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3 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

His quarterback rating in his last season was 90.7, ranking 16th. This backup shirt is part of the spin doctoring people bought into at the time to rationalize his treatment. 

I'm not rationalizing his treatment.  I think it's pretty obvious that he was blackballed and it's total bullshit.  He was absolutely better than some guys starting games over the time he was out. 

I'm just saying that, had he been a top ten QB, it wouldn't have happened.  Because at the end of the day, the NFL will allow you to be a headache proportionate to your worth to them.  If you're a top ten QB, you're basically unimpeachable.  If you're a bottom ten QB, you're inherently replaceable.  It's why Deshaun Watson was traded for three firsts and Baker Mayfield was traded for a bag of stale chips.  

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1 hour ago, briantw said:

I'm not rationalizing his treatment.  I think it's pretty obvious that he was blackballed and it's total bullshit.  He was absolutely better than some guys starting games over the time he was out. 

I'm just saying that, had he been a top ten QB, it wouldn't have happened.  Because at the end of the day, the NFL will allow you to be a headache proportionate to your worth to them.  If you're a top ten QB, you're basically unimpeachable.  If you're a bottom ten QB, you're inherently replaceable. 

No, you’re not addressing the unusual degree to which Kaepernick was vilified at the time. 

He was ranked the most hated man in the NFL by almost 2-1 over the next placed guy, he was ranked the most hated athlete in the US and Time magazine’s poll (on the cover issue dealing with his kneeling) had him as the most hated person in America, period. Over Clinton or Trump (who often mentioned him in speeches) or terrorists or w/e. NFL owners were apparently even more against him, with more than half going on record about him being some version of ‘traitor’ and off-the record all but 2 saying he should never play again…and one of those 2 was his own. 
 

The fact that an injury plagued, Tomsula lead season with PFFs worst ranked OL and receiving corps and 2nd worst running backs had him 0.5 behind one pro bowler, 0.6 behind another, and 1.5 AHEAD of another pro bowler is, in the context, pretty immaterial imo. 
 

Many have come around to the idea that he was treated terribly, but many have kinda forgotten how overwhelmingly popular treating him terribly was in America at the time, especially in the sports world…even by some in here. 
 

Also, Baker Mayfield was 27th in Quarterback rating in 2021, a significantly greater difference between he and Kaepernick than Kaepernick and the top 10 (well, 7 even).

Edited by James Arryn
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What's happened to Kaep is totally and utterly fucked up, but I agree with @briantw that it's fundamentally different than Watson.  Kaep had a QBR in the forties the season before and the season he started kneeling. And during the latter he was competing/couldn't clearly win the starting job with Blaine Fucking Gabbart.  He was basically an average backup at that point, which is why Shanahan told him he was gonna release him upon being hired and Kaep preempted it by opting out.

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5 hours ago, DMC said:

What's happened to Kaep is totally and utterly fucked up, but I agree with @briantw that it's fundamentally different than Watson.  Kaep had a QBR in the forties the season before and the season he started kneeling. And during the latter he was competing/couldn't clearly win the starting job with Blaine Fucking Gabbart.  He was basically an average backup at that point, which is why Shanahan told him he was gonna release him upon being hired and Kaep preempted it by opting out.

I don’t think we can divorce all the issues…not just the kneeling, but Kaepernick was a Harbaugh guy and Baalke was…meh on Harbaugh guys at that point, additionally the team had imploded due to an unbelievable series of self-inflicted wounds, sudden retirements, massive injury after massive injury, etc. and they were looking to stop the bleeding, and Baalke and Paraag were still pissed at Kaepernick over the surgery/contract thing. But if you think benching Kaep for Gabbert was a football decision, I present you with their numbers:

Blaine Gabbert, with the 49ers, 2016 season
91-for-160 (56.9% completion rate)
925 yards, 4.7 yards per attempt
5 TDs, 6 INTs
68.4 passer rating
40 rush attempts, 173 yards, 2 TDs

Colin Kaepernick, with those same 49ers, 2016 season
196-for-331 (59.2% completion rate)
2,241 yards, 6.8 yards per attempt
16 TDs, 4 INTs
90.7 passer rating
69 rush attempts, 468 yards, 2 TDs

Do you still think there is ANY football reason that justifies him being remotely threatened by BFingG?
 

Moreover, Kaep, despite the injuries, horrible coach/team, was actually showing improvement. He wasn’t running quite as often but his yards/rush was a career high, at almost 8, his TD/Int rate, always a strength, was a career high at 4:1, and despite the 49ers leading the league in dropped passes during his 11 starts (2nd most on the season as a whole) he was putting up really solid numbers. He was 2nd most in qB rushing to a guy who played 5 more games, less than 100 yards behind on 22 fewer rushes…he’d have lead comfortably if he’d played more. 
 

The idea that, as @briantw said, he was “playing like a backup” is just bunkum. Brian says he’s not spinning and I agree, but he’s inadvertently bought into the spin. He wasn’t setting the world on fire, but he was playing quite well in horrible circumstances and though still young he had already established himself as a very valuable quarterback capable of carrying a team to a SB:
 

186 quarterbacks have attempted at least 1500 passes in NFL history, and amongst those 186, Kaepernick ranks 5th all time in td:Int rate (72:30). Amongst all nfl qbs who rushed as often as he did in his short career, only Vick and Cunningham had a higher yds/rush rate. Even Lamar trails him. 
 

A great many people had a great many reasons to try and paint Kaep’s treatment as a football decision and spent a ton of time shitting on his play, but the numbers don’t support it even without accounting for the coach/team/injuries. And because of all that noise others have bought in to differing degrees, often quite innocently. 

Edited by James Arryn
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11 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

But if you think benching Kaep for Gabbert was a football decision, I present you with their numbers:

Kaep was 1-10 in 2016 while Gabbart was 1-4.  Gabbart actually had the slightly higher QBR that year at 54.1.  Doesn't matter, point is they both sucked, as did the niners in general that year, which is why ShanaLynch cleared house when they were hired. 

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25 minutes ago, DMC said:

Kaep was 1-10 in 2016 while Gabbart was 1-4.  Gabbart actually had the slightly higher QBR that year at 54.1.  Doesn't matter, point is they both sucked, as did the niners in general that year, which is why ShanaLynch cleared house when they were hired. 

Serious auestions

 1) do you consider w-l a QB stat?

2) PFF had the 49ers receivers and OL as the league bottom, and their rbs 2nd worse, to go with the league’s worst defence and most dropped passes. Considering all that, a solid qb rating, stellar td-Int rate and exceptional ability rushing means, imo pretty clearly, that Kaep was one of the very few on the team who did not suck. 
 

They cleared house for many reasons, but many insiders (back when the Niners were full of holes) said that the Niners ownership wanted to move on from Kaep BECAUSE of the kneeling circus but didn’t want to cut him during the season as it would be obvious why and they wanted to avoid the backlash from those in the Bay Area who supported him (much higher than rest of country) and because it would conflict with the public statements of support. Even FOX reported this (while trying to say it was business, not politics).

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46 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

1) do you consider w-l a QB stat?

No, but I consider it informative as to demonstrating the niners sucked ass that year whether Kaep or Gabbart was under center, which was explicitly my point. 

49 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

They cleared house for many reasons, but many insiders (back when the Niners were full of holes) said that the Niners ownership wanted to move on from Kaep BECAUSE of the kneeling circus but didn’t want to cut him during the season as it would be obvious why and they wanted to avoid the backlash from those in the Bay Area who supported him (much higher than rest of country) and because it would conflict with the public statements of support. Even FOX reported this (while trying to say it was business, not politics)

I do remember this reporting.  I also remember reporting concurrently that directly contradicted this depiction.  Really though, that's irrelevant to my point, which is simply many people and Niners fans wanted Kaep released well before he effectively was, including myself even though I was and remain a fan.

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