UK Politics- P0rn, Horn and Local Elections

[DaveSumm]

Just for some context, that scale is out of 6; the Mail scores 5th, the Guardian 4th. 

It seems we all dislike the Mail, but it’s hardly the first time someone’s used it as a source and it won’t be the last. Their search result fu is pretty on point so they’re always gonna be amongst the first results for a story. Sharing them here and caveating with “if true” seems par for the course.

[Heartofice]

This isn’t about whether the Mail is good or not. It’s not, it’s a crappy rag. 
 

My point was that the manufactured outage about using a photo that isn’t of the exact event in the headline is totally misguided because it’s a very common practice.

It was done many times for a similar story of Boris at a party. But nobody complained, nobody here jumped onto the internet to rail against the unfairness of it all, call people idiots and complain about how deceptive the press are. 
 

It’s just a matter of hypocrisy and partisanship. These things are only ever issues when it happens to someone you like.
 

Lying, breaking rules, playing the victim are all really bad things.. until it’s someone you like doing it. Then criticism of them is ‘ a new low’ .

 

[mormont]

And the Daily Mail is a crappy rag until it prints an allegation you're happy to believe, because it enables you to avoid uncomfortable ideas like 'we live in a society that dehumanises women'.

[Heartofice]

2 minutes ago, mormont said:

And the Daily Mail is a crappy rag until it prints an allegation you're happy to believe, because it enables you to avoid uncomfortable ideas like 'we live in a society that dehumanises women'.

It can still be a crappy rag and the story to be true. That’s the point. If the Rayner story is not true, she never told that story, despite 4 MPs saying she did, then she can come out and say she never said the story, she can sue the Daily Mail for printing a false story. 
That won’t happen because it most likely is true, and Rayner has been caught out.

[mormont]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61292313

Quote

Labour has rejected a Conservative claim that deputy leader Angela Rayner told a Tory MP she crossed and uncrossed her legs in the Commons in an effort to distract Boris Johnson.

Or we could believe that Rayner conveniently said this silly thing in front of four members of the Conservative party because of reasons, I suppose.

But as I've pointed out, even if that were true (and there's no real reason to believe it is) it wouldn't address the real issue, which remains that, as I've said, the story illustrates how we live in a society that dehumanises women: and our Parliament is rife with attitudes towards women and sex that would embarrass a bunch of teenagers drinking Buckfast by the swings in the park.

[Heartofice]

You’ll notice Rayner never actually denies she said it. That is a classic non denial denial. She throws out words like smear and misogyny, but doesn’t deny the central claim of the article, that she said she flashes at Boris to distract him. 
 

The story wouldn’t exist but for her own actions. You can bang on about dehumanising women, all very well, but if the story is accurate, and it probably is, given she hasn’t denied it or made any attempt to sue , and that the Mail hasn’t backed down, then it turns the story from being a horrendous smear to an accurate recalling of actual events.

None of which changes the fact that Rayner has spent a whole week playing the victim card, completely deceptively. She’s trying to portray herself a champion against misogyny, the sort of misogyny he has seemingly no issue with when it’s coming from her mouth.

[Which Tyler]

2 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Just for some context, that scale is out of 6; the Mail scores 5th, the Guardian 4th.

How do you mean?
I'm not seeing a score at all, let alone a scale for that score. Whilst one being 4th and the other being 5th sounds like a ranking, rather than points on a scale.

 

ETA: Ahh, do you mean purely the "Factual Reporting" section? Which is an over-simplification, as admitted by Media Bias Fact Check.
Here's what they say there to reach those conclusions
 

Quote

Analysis / Bias

The Guardian has always been a left-wing publication throughout its history, as they have stated in various articles.

In review, story selection favors the left but is generally factual. They utilize emotionally loaded headlines such as “The cashless society is a con – and big finance is behind it” and “Trump back-pedals on Russian meddling remarks after an outcry.” The Guardian typically utilizes credible sources such as thoughtco.com, gov.uk., and factually mixed sources such as HuffPost and independent.co.uk.

 

A 2014 Pew Research Survey found that 72% of The Guardian’s audience is consistently or primarily liberal, 20% Mixed, and 9% consistently or mostly conservative. This indicates that a more liberal audience strongly prefers the Guardian. Further, a Reuters institute survey found that 52% of respondents trust their news coverage and 19% do not, ranking them #7 in trust of the major UK news providers.

The Guardian holds a left-leaning editorial bias and sometimes relies on sources that have failed fact checks. Further, while The Guardian has failed several fact checks, they also produce an incredible amount of content; therefore, most stories are accurate, but the reader must beware and hence why we assign them a Mixed rating for factual reporting.

 

Quote

Analysis / Bias

The Daily Mail is a known supporter of the Conservatives. They are also one of the pro-Brexit tabloids. According to a Reuters article, the Daily Mail published a controversial headline in response to a Brexit Court ruling criticizing the judges by branding them as ‘enemies of the people.’ According to CNBC, the Daily Mail has also been criticized by Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales for publishing fake news articles and “hyped up” headlines and “mastered the art of running stories that aren’t true.” Further, CNBC reported that DMG media responded by saying, “DailyMail.com is the very antithesis of click-bait and hype headlines. We just tell stories better than anyone else.”

The Daily Mail tends to publish stories utilizing sensationalized headlines with emotionally loaded wordings such as “Woman, 63, ‘becomes PREGNANT in the mouth’ with baby squid after eating calamari”, which is a misleading headline. In 2017, Wikipedia banned the Daily Mail as an ‘unreliable’ source. When it comes to sourcing information, they use minimal hyperlinked sourcing and sourcing to themselves. Further, a Reuters institute survey found that 26% of respondents trust their news coverage and 47% do not, ranking them #11 in trust of the major UK news providers. In general, most stories favor the right; however, the Daily Mail will report either side of the story is sensational enough.

So one sometimes uses sources that have failed fact-checking (which is a bad thing).

One doesn't really care what the facts are, so long as it's sensational and confirms their political bias.

[mormont]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

None of which changes the fact that Rayner has spent a whole week playing the victim card, completely deceptively.

That is not a fact, it's an opinion.

I'm wasting no more time on this. In the end, what it comes down to is that when the Tories decided to go after a female politician, they chose to play the sexual purity card. You can understand that the original story was wrong because it's wrong to do that, or you can believe that it was wrong because an innocent woman was wrongly accused of failing the purity test. If the latter, you might be impressed by the Mail doubling down on that card with more anonymous accusations of the same failing. But I think any mature understanding of the issue must lead to the conclusion that it's the former. 

[Heartofice]

8 minutes ago, mormont said:

That is not a fact, it's an opinion.

 

That she spent the whole week playing the victim, is a fact. She absolutely played up the situation for her own gain. 
 

9 minutes ago, mormont said:

That is not a fact, it's an opinion.

I'm wasting no more time on this. In the end, what it comes down to is that when the Tories decided to go after a female politician, they chose to play the sexual purity card. 

Again, that's how it appeared at first glance. It's not the same if they are just relaying a story that Rayner herself has told. You cannot hold your hands up in outrage at the daily mail if the reporting is accurate. That is the problem here. You can't go around claiming this story is misogyny if it's just reporting things you have actually said. If Rayner didn't want this story to happen then maybe she shouldn't be openly saying these things, maybe she should be more careful with her words, because MPs have to be very careful with what they say, thats how it works.  

[Which Tyler]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61294470

Quote

1. Gym owners have lockdown fines overturned

More than 20 gym owners accused of breaching coronavirus rules have had their fines overturned in court, London-based law firm, Nicholls & Nicholls, has told BBC News. Alex Lowndes, who faced a £10,000 fine for refusing to close Gainz Fitness & Strength when restrictions were in force in England, in November 2020, contested the case on principle. Bedford Council says it acted in the public interest. But the case collapsed and Mr Lowndes says it was a waste of time, money and resources, particularly in light of Partygate revelations.

 

[mormont]

That's not terribly informative without any information about why the case collapsed. 

[Spockydog]

 

 

[A wilding]

3 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

Just for some context, that scale is out of 6; the Mail scores 5th, the Guardian 4th. 

It seems we all dislike the Mail, but it’s hardly the first time someone’s used it as a source and it won’t be the last. Their search result fu is pretty on point so they’re always gonna be amongst the first results for a story. Sharing them here and caveating with “if true” seems par for the course.

I am not sure that "but they were the top search result" justifies quoting the Mail when posting a story.

And given the Mail's long track record of printing distortions and outright falsities (and always biased in the same direction) I think that people are justified in outright discarding and refusing to engage with anything controversial that they print, unless it is backed up by more reliable news sources (which this Rayner story does not really seem to be).

 

And of course Rayner is in the classic age old female bind. Ignore the sexual smear and be put down by having widespread sniggering behind her back, or lean into it and have the HoI's of the world belittle her as a slut. (And as already briefly mentioned, this smear actually originated with the Mail months ago and is now merely being recycled with more volume.)

[Derfel Cadarn]

Wondering if the Daily Heil will be reporting this comment from Angea Rayner?

 

[Heartofice]

Boris mixes up Teeside and Tyneside. WHY ISN'T THIS BEING REPORTED!!!

'The Daily Heil' is currently leading instead by focussing on Boris' stupid comment about Freedom Passes. Weird that.

[BigFatCoward]

48 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Wondering if the Daily Heil will be reporting this comment from Angea Rayner?

 

That's right outside the chippy at the coast I've used my whole life.  Stop ruining my childhood memories you prick. 

 

[Spockydog]

He's just a lying cunt, pathologically incapable of telling the truth. About anything at all.

 

[kiko]

What's that thing with Boris and busses? 

[Spockydog]

He went on national television this morning, and when asked about the cost of living crisis - specifically, the case of Elsie, a pensioner who cannot afford to heat her home because her heating bills have gone up from £17 to £85 per month, and who now spends all day travelling around on buses in order not to freeze to death - he lied about introducing the Freedom Pass when he was mayor.

 

[kiko]

5 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

He went on national television this morning, and when asked about the cost of living crisis - specifically, the case of Elsie, a pensioner who cannot afford to heat her home because her heating bills have gone up from £17 to £85 per month, and who now spends all day travelling around on buses in order not to freeze to death - he lied about introducing the Freedom Pass when he was mayor.

 

Sorry my bad. I actually edited that out from my post. Why does he have this compulsion to tell bus-related lies. I'm aware he is mostly lying but the bus lie quote must be 110%. Minimum.