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Is self defense immoral for nations or individuals?


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9 hours ago, Rippounet said:

News of the day: absolutely appaling.

It's now increasingly certain that the Biden administration has, in fact, no clue about what it is doing, and is gambling with nothing else than the collective fate of humanity, as we now find ourselves in the cosmically-ironic situation where we must count on Putin being the sanest of individuals. In other words, we must now hope that Western propaganda is in fact 100% wrong about Putin - which it most probably isn't.

This is where a morality-based foreign policy gets us, to the point where you have to count on your enemy being more rational than you are. Utter madness. As if there were no alternatives! But of course, it was too tempting to go down the self-righteous route, just to remind the world that you do actually believe in your own shit, so no one gets to fuck with the pax americana. No one gets to out-bully the US of A, no sir, and certainly not the sick, dying autocrat of Russia.

Who would have thought Donald fucking Trump was actually the better option for the world... Though in retrospect, history did show us how dangerous the Democrats could be, so the writing was probably on the wall all along.
And to add irony upon irony, the latest Star Trek show basically tells us that World War 3 is our future, but that we'll grow past that kind of nonsense some day. Those of us who'll make it, that is, and it seems it won't be us in the West after all, as we're hell-bent on preparing our own come-uppance. Not undeserved, I guess.

Hysterics aside, seven hells. I hoped I was wrong last month, and I hope I'm wrong today. Regardless of the outcome, these are some deeply foolish choices. I guess that, as bad as things are, you can always count on a US government to make them worse somehow. Bravo!

No offense man, but you're either gone full cuckoo, or you're reacting to something genuinely concerning, but without pointing out what it is and why is it upsetting, you look like someone that went full cuckoo.

4 hours ago, DMC said:

Clearly, the new Star Trek show causes people to go into a deranged fervor.  Viewer discretion advised.

Nothing new then.

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18 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

It is now official.  Finland is petitioning to become a member of NATO.  
 

 

Goddamn it Finland was the final piece. Now NATO can invade Russia and turn it Gay. Now Putin has no choice but to kill humanity in order to prevent such an atrocity/s

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The question is, "Is self defense immoral for nations or individuals?"

Would it be immoral for a woman who will die from an ectopic pregnancy whose home is broken into by neighbors or police, to be put under arrest by them, to stop her from leaving the state to receive the health care that will save her life -- is she justified in shooting those who are intent on stopping her and forcing her to die?

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12 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

The cartoon attached pretty much sums up my view of Russia’s position on NATO expansion:

 

Russia’s useful idiots reaction to the cartoon: now I’m not saying Finland deserves to be assaulted but can we least talk about how short their skirt is?

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Just had a brief engagement with one of the radical pacifists in another forum who keeps demanding not to send weapons and urging Ukraine to "negotiate something". I couldn't stop myself because it somehow turned towards the user in question bringing up that he's got a doctorate for no reason whatsoever and then that under Nazi Germany he would have continued with his life and only refused the draft and felt it absolutely necessary to rub under everyone's nose that with this he is so much braver than anyone else there who replied to the same question that they would have fled the country.

Found that pretty revealing, really.

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On 5/12/2022 at 12:12 PM, Zorral said:

The question is, "Is self defense immoral for nations or individuals?"

Would it be immoral for a woman who will die from an ectopic pregnancy whose home is broken into by neighbors or police, to be put under arrest by them, to stop her from leaving the state to receive the health care that will save her life -- is she justified in shooting those who are intent on stopping her and forcing her to die?

Stand Your Ground!

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3 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Stand Your Ground!

Now that would really open a legal can of worms in those SYG states, wouldn't it.  Woo!

Also ... you are the only one who was able to devise, or be confident enough, or interested enough, or brave enough, to have a reasonable response -- so to speak -- to that question.  You definitely win the internets!  :cheers:  Many thanks!

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@SpaceChampion  Imma gonna add, smart enough too, to that list.  At least certainly much smarter than me -- I hadn't thought of that aspect, which is so obvious, considering where, currently, these laws are in place and are being introduced.

Again, congratulations and thank you.

 

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Am I the only one thinking about how Cersei's unwillingness to surrender ultimately devastated King's Landing after reading this? Cause she was already highly opposed across the country within the hierarchy and among the smallfolk. Every part of the wars tell that she is not being widely supported and her rule of fear was brittle unlike Tywin, who actually made his family feared with a notorious feat, so if her weakness is revealed, then it's only just the reality of everybody wanting her dead. And even fate was against her, as she was prophesied to be deposed by a more beautiful and younger queen, and almost most of the Great Houses, with their bannermen sworn to their overlords, already hate her family: the Starks for the Execution of Eddard Stark, the Martells for the Sack of King's Landing, the Tyrells for the Destruction of the Sept of Baelor and even Tyrion opposing her as Daenerys' Hand and Jaime abandoning her to fight the White Walkers.

There were signs all around her that she is unworthy to be queen and will lose due to her brittle power of fear and how the dragons would be unstoppable in the battlefield and yet she refused to yield and in the end, it killed her.

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There were a lot of ways for this topic to go but I'll be honest 'Ukraine should surrender because Cersei' was not an implication I expected to see. 

 

Or is Putin supposed to be the Cersei in this scenario? Coz for personality he's closer but it's not Russia under attack.  

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16 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

There were a lot of ways for this topic to go but I'll be honest 'Ukraine should surrender because Cersei' was not an implication I expected to see. 

 

Or is Putin supposed to be the Cersei in this scenario? Coz for personality he's closer but it's not Russia under attack.  

Just you wait. Once those elephants arrive Ukraine is finished.

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34 minutes ago, Babblebauble said:

Once those elephants arrive Ukraine is finished.

Funny, how that same scenario was proposed by a russian apologist just today in the comments at this week's installment of BD's blog of military history --

https://acoup.blog/2022/05/20/fireside-friday-may-20-2022/

We all do love our elephants, of course, including me, still :dunno:  :cheers:

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56 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

There were a lot of ways for this topic to go but I'll be honest 'Ukraine should surrender because Cersei' was not an implication I expected to see. 

There's no instrument that can measure the levels of anger that I have that this thread got more pages than my puppets replacing actors in movies thread. Absolutely fucking disgraceful. 

This is one of the dumbest topics I've ever seen or heard discussed anywhere in my lifetime.

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10 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Funny, how that same scenario was proposed by a russian apologist just today in the comments at this week's installment of BD's blog of military history --

https://acoup.blog/2022/05/20/fireside-friday-may-20-2022/

We all do love our elephants, of course, including me, still :dunno:  :cheers:

My cover is blown. 

Blonde November! Blonde November!

blondinka noyabr 
blondinka noyabr
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11 hours ago, GOTSeriesfan said:

Am I the only one thinking about how Cersei's unwillingness to surrender ultimately devastated King's Landing after reading this? Cause she was already highly opposed across the country within the hierarchy and among the smallfolk. Every part of the wars tell that she is not being widely supported and her rule of fear was brittle unlike Tywin, who actually made his family feared with a notorious feat, so if her weakness is revealed, then it's only just the reality of everybody wanting her dead. And even fate was against her, as she was prophesied to be deposed by a more beautiful and younger queen, and almost most of the Great Houses, with their bannermen sworn to their overlords, already hate her family: the Starks for the Execution of Eddard Stark, the Martells for the Sack of King's Landing, the Tyrells for the Destruction of the Sept of Baelor and even Tyrion opposing her as Daenerys' Hand and Jaime abandoning her to fight the White Walkers.

There were signs all around her that she is unworthy to be queen and will lose due to her brittle power of fear and how the dragons would be unstoppable in the battlefield and yet she refused to yield and in the end, it killed her.

Hopefully you see Putin as Cersi in this scenario right?

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