New Peek at House of the Dragon

[Lord Varys]

Seeing that some people (rightfully) demand that older Rhaenyra should also be a thicker Rhaenyra, I wondered as how fat you actually do think Rhaenyra was in the books?

We hear she gained weight during her pregnancies and never entirely lost it, unlike slender Alicent, but we don't get an actual description of her size. We also learn that during her half-year reign in KL she really liked to eat, apparently in part to cope with the fact that darling Daemon preferred to fuck Mysaria rather than she.

But at her death on Dragonstone Rhaenyra is described as a thin and haggard person, whose troubles and grief and fear had caused her to lose weight pretty rapidly. I imagine that would imply that she wasn't *that* fat to begin with.

I still think they should include that part of her character - just as Robert and Lysa Arryn should have been fat in GoT - but I don't think she was as big as some people thought she was.

The Targaryen of HotD who was really fat and who very likely feasted himself to death was Viserys I, though. His symptoms at the end imply he may have had some kind of Cardiovascular disease.

[Ran]

Should be noted that this is officially the teaser trailer. Another, fuller trailer is almost certain.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I wonder how many non-book fans were confused by the trailer. Most people probably don’t realize that Molly and Emma are playing the same character. 

This trailer also seemed to be trying to emphasize young Rhaenyra’s innocence. Maybe that’s a misdirect, but assuming that it’s young Rhaenyra who married Laenor, I’m thinking they won’t go the route of having her and Criston have an love affair, like the audition scripts had suggested.

[Black of Hair and Heart]

22 hours ago, Ran said:

That's Corlys Velaryon, who is of Valyrian descent. We don't know what the explanation is in the show. 

 

It's hard to overstate the degree to which I hope this is just never explained in the show.

[Black of Hair and Heart]

4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I wonder how many non-book fans were confused by the trailer. Most people probably don’t realize that Molly and Emma are playing the same character. 

Not really something people need to glean from a trailer. The show will obviously clarify it. 

[Lord Varys]

16 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

This trailer also seemed to be trying to emphasize young Rhaenyra’s innocence. Maybe that’s a misdirect, but assuming that it’s young Rhaenyra who married Laenor, I’m thinking they won’t go the route of having her and Criston have an love affair, like the audition scripts had suggested.

I guess that will turn out to be misdirection. Young Rhaenyra is very much shown as a pretty little doll with no agency of her own in the trailer ... but that's just the impression the images create (and it is clearly intentional that they don't allow her to speak). There might be some subtlety there with Daemon and Rhaenyra exchanging looks during the wedding dance, but the Rhaenyra from the book had to be forced to agree to the wedding ... she is not all that likely to participate in some kind of ritual dance.

I must say I really don't like her facial expression in the investiture scene - she should be happy there or at least give any indication that she is emotionally involved. In the book she is much younger in 105 AC, of course, but one imagines that precocious seven-year-old Rhaenyra was enjoying herself when all the great dignitaries of the Realm did obeisance to her. But in the show she is much older, so she should be involved and very much enjoying the fact that she is now the Heir Apparent of the Iron Throne since that's most likely something she actually wants to be - else she would have told her dad to stick to Daemon.

Having the Rhaenyra-Laenor wedding in the Red Keep adds another potential location to that event, by the way. FaB is inconsistent about the location, it could either have been on Driftmark or Dragonstone.

[IFR]

40 minutes ago, Black of Hair and Heart said:

It's hard to overstate the degree to which I hope this is just never explained in the show.

I hope it is explained. While I do appreciate dadaism in some shows, in others it is tonally out of place. A certain appearance for Valyrians was established in Game of Thrones. By introducing a deviation, an explanation really ought to accompany it, in my opinion.

If the Targaryens started slaughtering their enemies by shooting laser beams out of their eyes, I think that would require an explanation too. Although your miles may vary.

[Sotan]

32 minutes ago, IFR said:

I hope it is explained. While I do appreciate dadaism in some shows, in others it is tonally out of place. A certain appearance for Valyrians was established in Game of Thrones. By introducing a deviation, an explanation really ought to accompany it, in my opinion.

If the Targaryens started slaughtering their enemies by shooting laser beams out of their eyes, I think that would require an explanation too. Although your miles may vary.

I too hope they come up with something cool to add to the lore of the show. Books and show are essentially different universes. I highly doubt the casual audience will know a Valyrian is supposed to be white with silver/white hair because the only Valyrians they saw were were 3 members of the same family. There were more non-silver haired people, some of them POC speaking Valyrian in the show. Whatever a Valyrian is supposed to be in showworld, HOTD will define it for the vast majority of the audience as GOT never bothered going into that part of the lore.

[Black of Hair and Heart]

38 minutes ago, IFR said:

I hope it is explained. While I do appreciate dadaism in some shows, in others it is tonally out of place. A certain appearance for Valyrians was established in Game of Thrones. By introducing a deviation, an explanation really ought to accompany it, in my opinion.

If the Targaryens started slaughtering their enemies by shooting laser beams out of their eyes, I think that would require an explanation too. Although your miles may vary.

I'm sure they'll explain it. But pissing off the blood purity enthusiasts and all the hardliners who don't understand the concept of 'adaptation' is both hilarious and rewarding. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I guess that will turn out to be misdirection. Young Rhaenyra is very much shown as a pretty little doll with no agency of her own in the trailer ... but that's just the impression the images create (and it is clearly intentional that they don't allow her to speak). There might be some subtlety there with Daemon and Rhaenyra exchanging looks during the wedding dance, but the Rhaenyra from the book had to be forced to agree to the wedding ... she is not all that likely to participate in some kind of ritual dance.

I must say I really don't like her facial expression in the investiture scene - she should be happy there or at least give any indication that she is emotionally involved. In the book she is much younger in 105 AC, of course, but one imagines that precocious seven-year-old Rhaenyra was enjoying herself when all the great dignitaries of the Realm did obeisance to her. But in the show she is much older, so she should be involved and very much enjoying the fact that she is now the Heir Apparent of the Iron Throne since that's most likely something she actually wants to be - else she would have told her dad to stick to Daemon.

Having the Rhaenyra-Laenor wedding in the Red Keep adds another potential location to that event, by the way. FaB is inconsistent about the location, it could either have been on Driftmark or Dragonstone.

I think it was to set up a contrast between young and old Rhaenyra—who looked anything but bright eyed and naive in the trailer. Let’s also consider that none of the versions GRRM gives us in FnB claim she and Criston ever had a romantic relationship; it was always a matter of one person rejecting the other. Not gonna lie, I’m actually liking the possibility of an adult Alicent and Criston love affair. It would add some extra spice to the story. 
 

 

[Lord Varys]

3 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think it was to set up a contrast between young and old Rhaenyra—who looked anything but bright eyed and naive in the trailer.

Adult Rhaenyra doesn't look like a pretty doll, true, but the one scene where she shows any other emotion than stony-faced determination is the little smile she gives Daemon during what seems to be this blood pact scene on the beach (not sure about that since the Green Council where the blood pact guys in the book ... and one shouldn't overdo that kind of thing).

I guess that's going to turn out to be the scene where they decide to marry in the wake of Laena and Laenor's death, possibly before or immediately after the Vhagar incident.

3 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Let’s also consider that none of the versions GRRM gives us in FnB claim she and Criston ever had a romantic relationship; it was always a matter of one person rejecting the other. Not gonna lie, I’m actually liking the possibility of an adult Alicent and Criston love affair. It would add some extra spice to the story.

After the Rhaenyra fling is over Criston becomes more or less a background character with no agency of his own aside from organizing the Green war effort. That wouldn't be enough for him in the show, so I think the chance that he and Alicent will be more than just queen and Kingsguard is not unlikely. They could even make it so that they only start this affair after Viserys' death.

In any case, though, I think both characters will have a private life of sorts throughout the show.

George kind of dropped the ball with Alicent in the marriage department. Like Alyssa Velaryon, Alicent Hightower is a powerful dawager queen and still young enough to remarry and bear children when her husband dies. That they didn't reach out to great lords offering her hand in marriage in exchange for support doesn't make much sense.

More importantly, after Rhaenyra's flight Alicent's hand in marriage would be the natural way to solidify the reign of the pretender kings - I very much liked the idea that Perkin forced Alicent to marry Trystane to strengthen his claim and give him more legitimacy ... and that this may have been the reason why Aegon II executed Trystane.

George has precious few widows as it is ... but that they wouldn't (try) to remarry just makes no sense.

In relation the sex/gender troubles in the succession department:

Imagining a detailed adaptation kind of makes it clear that George greatly underdeveloped the earlier conflict leading up to the Great Council. Aside from Ellard Stark's alleged motivation to support Laenor (paypack for the New Gift) and the Velaryon-Baratheon kinship nobody gives us any reason why people would support the Velaryons. More importantly, we have no clue why individual lords leaned towards Viserys. And later, we have no idea at all why people became Blacks or Greens.

The Great Council in itself is also kind of a missed chance since the whole conciliatory approach of Jaehaerys I could have resulted in a preliminary ruling - Viserys becoming the Heir Apparent but Laenor second in line as long as Viserys had no sons of his own (kind of mimicking the situation when Maegor died, when Aerea of the better claim was the presumptive heir while Jaehaerys had no children of his own). Viserys doubling down on that later in 105 AC to later re-include Laenor in his succession plans could have made this whole a more detailed mess, referencing both ancient (think about Augustus forcing Tiberius to adapt Germanicus to ensure the succession into the next generation, Henry VIII ruling drawing up the succession of his children, earlier Plantagenet kings making provisions for their various daughters should their sons predecease them, etc.). After all, the lords at the Great Council would have known that Viserys didn't have any sons yet, meaning that while the succession of the Old King would be settled there, his succession was unclear.

Daemon as rival to Viserys/Rhaenyra doesn't make as much sense as a Velaryon rival having the better claim and controlling more and larger dragons.

[EggBlue]

well , the positive thing about the trailer for me (other than the music) , is that they seem to be portraying a relationship between Rhaenys and Rhaenyra . it's such a shame , though, that Rhaenys doesn't have her black Baratheon hair.. but that definitely does not bug me as much as not seeing "Velaryon" princes.

and can please somebody tell me who was the silver haired guy thrown on the ground? and Alicent wants to stab Rhaenyra in the face? what happened there?

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Adult Rhaenyra doesn't look like a pretty doll, true, but the one scene where she shows any other emotion than stony-faced determination is the little smile she gives Daemon during what seems to be this blood pact scene on the beach (not sure about that since the Green Council where the blood pact guys in the book ... and one shouldn't overdo that kind of thing).

I think that was their wedding ceremony (consider the cowl she was wearing).

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

George kind of dropped the ball with Alicent in the marriage department. Like Alyssa Velaryon, Alicent Hightower is a powerful dawager queen and still young enough to remarry and bear children when her husband dies. That they didn't reach out to great lords offering her hand in marriage in exchange for support doesn't make much sense.

More importantly, after Rhaenyra's flight Alicent's hand in marriage would be the natural way to solidify the reign of the pretender kings - I very much liked the idea that Perkin forced Alicent to marry Trystane to strengthen his claim and give him more legitimacy ... and that this may have been the reason why Aegon II executed Trystane.

George has precious few widows as it is ... but that they wouldn't (try) to remarry just makes no sense.

She probably didn't want to remarry for the same reason that Cersei didn't: she has more power as the dowager queen than as some lord's wife, and she has no one she has to be obedient to besides the king if she remains single. In Alyssa's case, we're told she was smitten with Rogar and saw their marriage as her second chance at happiness. Rogar was already the Hand at this point, and he probably wouldn't have married a woman believed to be too old to have more children if not for love.

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Imagining a detailed adaptation kind of makes it clear that George greatly underdeveloped the earlier conflict leading up to the Great Council. Aside from Ellard Stark's alleged motivation to support Laenor (paypack for the New Gift) and the Velaryon-Baratheon kinship nobody gives us any reason why people would support the Velaryons. More importantly, we have no clue why individual lords leaned towards Viserys. And later, we have no idea at all why people became Blacks or Greens.

The Great Council in itself is also kind of a missed chance since the whole conciliatory approach of Jaehaerys I could have resulted in a preliminary ruling - Viserys becoming the Heir Apparent but Laenor second in line as long as Viserys had no sons of his own (kind of mimicking the situation when Maegor died, when Aerea of the better claim was the presumptive heir while Jaehaerys had no children of his own). Viserys doubling down on that later in 105 AC to later re-include Laenor in his succession plans could have made this whole a more detailed mess, referencing both ancient (think about Augustus forcing Tiberius to adapt Germanicus to ensure the succession into the next generation, Henry VIII ruling drawing up the succession of his children, earlier Plantagenet kings making provisions for their various daughters should their sons predecease them, etc.). After all, the lords at the Great Council would have known that Viserys didn't have any sons yet, meaning that while the succession of the Old King would be settled there, his succession was unclear.

Daemon as rival to Viserys/Rhaenyra doesn't make as much sense as a Velaryon rival having the better claim and controlling more and larger dragons.

Well, we're told that most of the houses voted unanimously in Viserys' favor. I could see other sea-faring houses, such as those from the Iron Islands* and Three Sisters voting for Laenor out of admiration for Corlys (plus we're told he bestowed many gifts on less wealthy houses), but otherwise the Great Council seems to be George's way of indicating that Rhaenys' claim was the right one, since many of the "hero houses" voted for her son (Stark, Manderly, Baratheon, Blackwood, Dustin, probably the Arryns).

*Of course, Otto's offer to name Dalton Greyjoy Master of Ships may indicate that they instead sided with Viserys. Or maybe they just didn't show up. The Greyjoys appear to have skipped out on most events. 

40 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

and can please somebody tell me who was the silver haired guy thrown on the ground? and Alicent wants to stab Rhaenyra in the face? what happened there?

People online are saying it's Aegon, but I can't see any guards handling the crown prince so roughly. Even if he was being arrested by Rhaenyra, he would have been walked in in chains. Maybe it's Qarl Correy, if he doesn't escape in this version?

[Ran]

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

and can please somebody tell me who was the silver haired guy thrown on the ground?

I'm thinking it's Daemon after pissing off Viserys over Rhea Royce and/or trying to give Mysaria a dragon egg. Viserys was furious and threatend Daemon with attainder, but they could punch it up for a bit more drama by arresting him first or some such. The short hair looks similar to the shot from the feast with young Alicent.

[Lord Varys]

7 minutes ago, Ran said:

I'm thinking it's Daemon after pissing off Viserys over Rhea Royce and/or trying to give Mysaria a dragon egg. Viserys was furious and threatend Daemon with attainder, but they could punch it up for a bit more drama by arresting him first or some such. The short hair looks similar to the shot from the feast with young Alicent.

If it is Daemon, then this can make sense, although that would be another overly dramatic scene. One can only hope that they have not completely butchered the character of Viserys I. He and Aenys are the last kings one would expect to have their brothers thrown at their feet.

I'm guessing 'the procession scene' with Mysaria and 'Daemon's guys' in the background where he has a dragon egg with him and is confronted by Otto, the Grand Maester, and some Kingsguard might either be his formal arrest or the funeral of Queen Aemma where Daemon might return the dragon egg.

Hopefully the dragon egg stuff revolves around Mysaria wanting to get her hands on a dragon and we don't get other brazier shenanigans.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think that was their wedding ceremony (consider the cowl she was wearing).

Yes, it seems like that. If stoney-faced, controlled Rhaenyra is their general take on the character then they have completely changed her. George's Rhaenyra is a compulsive, slightly unhinged person, who is prone to work herself into a frenzy. It is far to early to tell, of course, but I'm not sure if that's a good sign.

The way to present her would be to make her much more open - a pampered, spoiled princess isn't reserved, she has no need to. She follows her whims and always gets what she wants. And Rhaenyra apparently did think she would get her iron chair - after all her 'faction' was not just ill-prepared for a coup or a subsequent succession war ... they were not prepared at all.

The way she is presented - this kind of determinism indicating she is surrounded by enemies she has to fight against - could very well indicate she is Rhaenys' daughter and she had to reclaim what had been withheld from her mother when in truth her father gives her what actually should have been given to Rhaenys' son.

While I do like that Rhaenys and Rhaenyra seem to be presented as having a close relationship I also think that's something that they should (have) develop(ed) only after Rhaenyra married Laenor and she and the Velaryons had reasons to get close(r). But Rhaenys talks with young Rhaenyra in the scene, and the dialogue suggests they talk around the time Rhaenyra is named Heir Apparent. There Rhaenys should be bitter that the throne isn't hers and that Rhaenyra is now promised a throne that by right should go to her son.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

She probably didn't want to remarry for the same reason that Cersei didn't: she has more power as the dowager queen than as some lord's wife, and she has no one she has to be obedient to besides the king if she remains single.

Oh, like with Aemond's betrothal, they would not have to go through with something like that. Just draw up a contract/form an alliance and set the date for the wedding in the post-war era. Jace also made such marriage contracts for his younger brother and unborn children. It could also just have come up with Alicent refusing to do it - once she stepped down as queen the true power at court past back to her father and eventually Aegon II and Criston Cole. The latter two could have had a vested interest to get rid of Alicent for this or that reason.

And it is not that there weren't suitable matches Alicent there. For example, Lord Tyrell was a child, true, but there would have been male Tyrells at Highgarden - uncles, cousins, and male relations of the dowager lady.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

In Alyssa's case, we're told she was smitten with Rogar and saw their marriage as her second chance at happiness. Rogar was already the Hand at this point, and he probably wouldn't have married a woman believed to be too old to have more children if not for love.

Oh, that one is also a kind of weirdo underdeveloped plotline. Rogar took the Targaryens in, and they must have spent time together before the proclamation, possibly hiding them for years at Storm's End. Jaehaerys (and Gyldayn) may not have known, but the way to interpret this would be that both the Handship and Alyssa's hand were the price for Baratheon support in the war against Maegor.

Rogar not remarrying after the death of his first wife would indicate that he was originally content to leave Storm's End to Borys and his children ... which only changed with the late arrival of Boremund.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Well, we're told that most of the houses voted unanimously in Viserys' favor. I could see other sea-faring houses, such as those from the Iron Islands* and Three Sisters voting for Laenor out of admiration for Corlys (plus we're told he bestowed many gifts on less wealthy houses), but otherwise the Great Council seems to be George's way of indicating that Rhaenys' claim was the right one, since many of the "hero houses" voted for her son (Stark, Manderly, Baratheon, Blackwood, Dustin, probably the Arryns).

That is what I mean by underdeveloped. The show can now either develop this more, giving individual characters their own motivations - inventing friendships and marriage ties and other things - or go with a bland, generic 'women should not rule' take ... which is likely a too easy answer for the outcome of the Great Council just as 'Egg being the best claimant' is likely a far too easy answer for the outcome of the second Great Council.

For the later Blacks we do have a kind of solid basis at the Great Council with the Velaryons supporters, but the Greens are completely undeveloped. The Hightowers are relations of Aegon II, and the Lannisters seem to have been bought with a seat on the Small Council, and Borros has to be recruited after Viserys' death. It could have been great to see how, say, fervent supporters of Viserys in 101 AC subsequently become determined Blacks because Rhaenyra happens to be Viserys's daughter - and the loyalty to the father is transferred to the daughter who he chose to be his heir (this seems to be the case with Lyman Beesbury who most likely supported Viserys rather than Laenor in 101 AC) - while others end up in the Green camp for different reasons.

Completely different thing:

Since Corlys is the guy with the voiceover lines - I suddenly realized that this is the kind of stuff you might tell yourself or your homosexual son when discussing whether your (grand)sons truly have to be your blood or not - 'History remembers names, not blood' - that kind of thing.

And the legacy he is talking about that is that the Velaryon name be never forgotten ... never mind who fathered said Velaryons. Or so one could interpret that.

Also - what about Viserys' crown? That thing looks pretty ugly - why couldn't they go with the circlet with the gemstones. That looks nice enough and it would also make a fine crown for Rhaenyra later on.

[EggBlue]

5 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

People online are saying it's Aegon, but I can't see any guards handling the crown prince so roughly. Even if he was being arrested by Rhaenyra, he would have been walked in in chains. Maybe it's Qarl Correy, if he doesn't escape in this version?

if it's Qarl , then they should give Velaryons revenge from whoever was behind their son's murder .. I somehow doubt they'll make it all just a crime of passion without anyone behind the scenes. but I wouldn't hate that if they do .

I think a drunk Aegon collected on Alicent's order makes more sense , albeit with exaggerations. Daemon after insulting Viserys's dead wife and son makes more sense  , though , I guess.

[TormundsWoman]

15 hours ago, Black of Hair and Heart said:

I'm sure they'll explain it. But pissing off the blood purity enthusiasts and all the hardliners who don't understand the concept of 'adaptation' is both hilarious and rewarding. 

Lol sounds like you like chaos! ☺️I personally think you’ll be pleased as punch. The show runners don’t need to explain the change from books to show. It’s a whole new family being introduced to TV viewers.

The last trace of Valeryon blood trace I know of is Aurane Waters in Dany’s time and he’s been cut from GOT if I’m not mistaken.

Basically nothing in GoT for the previously casual viewer suggests that people with roots in Essos cannot be black. So the most they’ll probably say (if that) is that they come from Essos, from old Valyria before the Doom(?) Casual viewers of Thrones have seen it enough in Dany’s travels for six seasons to know that diversity was real in Essos. It would be just weird the ask themselves why are they black and not white?

Never mind the people who’s first brush with this Universe is this show and know absolutely nothing about anything. 

Different story for people who read the books but I’m assuming that is not that much of an audience anymore, as this show is riding on the GoT audience actually.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I’m thoroughly convinced that HBO was monitoring YouTube comments the day the trailer dropped—they’re back to being brutal again. There are also a lot of bots (as in, multiple accounts posting the same comments, word for word).

I’m starting to think that a lot of people find it fun to hate on GOT, in their own weird way, so this is just more fodder for that. 

I’m having a hard time imagining how they’re going to cram so much into one season, particularly how they’re going to develop the various romances (Daemon and Rhaenyra each have several prior to the Dance). Are they going to use flashbacks, or is it a linear timeline? 

It’s an odd choice to include that line from Rhaenys about men preferring to torch the realm than let a woman rule, since it implies that this is going to be a feminist story about overcoming adversity. But the real story is anything but: Rhaenyra’s story ends almost as miserably as Dany’s did, and I think the audience is going to be pissed about being lured into rooting for a thwarted girlboss yet again. In the books, Rhaenyra finds a sliver of triumph in her sons inheriting the Iron Throne, but much like Sansa becoming QitN didn’t placate viewers on GOT, I don’t think little Aegon becoming king will either.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I’m having a hard time imagining how they’re going to cram so much into one season, particularly how they’re going to develop the various romances (Daemon and Rhaenyra each have several prior to the Dance). Are they going to use flashbacks, or is it a linear timeline? 

I guess there is potential for flashbacks, especially since it seems to be very modern these days to use them all the time.

For instance, the Rhaenys-Rhaenyra talk taking place around the time of her investiture could mean that we are going to get the Great Council basically as a story Rhaenys is telling Rhaenyra to illustrate why she might face adversity in the future. But then, of course, Rhaenyra would have been at the Great Council with her father, and since young Rhaenyra seems to have been aged up she may have been there as a young woman in the show, too.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It’s an odd choice to include that line from Rhaenys about men preferring to torch the realm than let a woman rule, since it implies that this is going to be a feminist story about overcoming adversity. But the real story is anything but: Rhaenyra’s story ends almost as miserably as Dany’s did, and I think the audience is going to be pissed about being lured into rooting for a thwarted girlboss yet again. In the books, Rhaenyra finds a sliver of triumph in her sons inheriting the Iron Throne, but much like Sansa becoming QitN didn’t placate viewers on GOT, I don’t think little Aegon becoming king will either.

LOL, I just remembered how the first novella there was named 'The Princess and the Queen', ending with the princess being eaten and the queen disappearing without a trace. That was about as anti-feminist as you can get. I'd say Rhaenyra's ending is much worse than Dany's - Dany at least accomplishes something, turns herself into a 'great figure' (although, of course, she is an utter and complete failure in the end) from scratch, while Rhaenyra is just her daddy's favorite and cannot really cope with the fact that her stepmother and half-siblings don't want to submit to her. That isn't exactly the setting you want for a heroic or good character. And then Rhaenyra is destroyed completely, both mentally and physically and almost nothing remains of her (I hope George has the decency to eventually reveal that Aegon II or Aegon III cremated the remnants of her leg and interred the ashes with the other Targaryens - if Daenerys or Aegon ever get to Dragonstone we might get a scenes where they pay a visit to the great ancestors they never met).

But then - Rhaenyra isn't a girlboss character. She is a pampered princess and about as progressive as Queen Victoria (who ensured that women would not become physicians), Maggie Thatcher, or Angela Merkel. She is not fighting for her sex/gender nor is she in any other way reformist. A faithful adaptation would include all that.

Of course, it is not that likely that the show will do that, capering to modern audiences and the like. In a faithful setting Syrax will also only be Rhaenyra's mount. She will not ride her in battle, ever, and one can assume that the character in the book found the idea that she would have 'to fight' beneath her unless absolutely necessary (one imagines her returning to Dragonstone for another dragon implies she (also) wanted to use that dragon to fight).

Aegon III's rise to the throne is also nothing good in context. He is a broken child, unable to rule in his own right, basically the worst kind of king the Westerosi could get after a civil war.

[The Bard of Banefort]

9 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I guess there is potential for flashbacks, especially since it seems to be very modern these days to use them all the time.

For instance, the Rhaenys-Rhaenyra talk taking place around the time of her investiture could mean that we are going to get the Great Council basically as a story Rhaenys is telling Rhaenyra to illustrate why she might face adversity in the future. But then, of course, Rhaenyra would have been at the Great Council with her father, and since young Rhaenyra seems to have been aged up she may have been there as a young woman in the show, too.

LOL, I just remembered how the first novella there was named 'The Princess and the Queen', ending with the princess being eaten and the queen disappearing without a trace. That was about as anti-feminist as you can get. I'd say Rhaenyra's ending is much worse than Dany's - Dany at least accomplishes something, turns herself into a 'great figure' (although, of course, she is an utter and complete failure in the end) from scratch, while Rhaenyra is just her daddy's favorite and cannot really cope with the fact that her stepmother and half-siblings don't want to submit to her. That isn't exactly the setting you want for a heroic or good character. And then Rhaenyra is destroyed completely, both mentally and physically and almost nothing remains of her (I hope George has the decency to eventually reveal that Aegon II or Aegon III cremated the remnants of her leg and interred the ashes with the other Targaryens - if Daenerys or Aegon ever get to Dragonstone we might get a scenes where they pay a visit to the great ancestors they never met).

But then - Rhaenyra isn't a girlboss character. She is a pampered princess and about as progressive as Queen Victoria (who ensured that women would not become physicians), Maggie Thatcher, or Angela Merkel. She is not fighting for her sex/gender nor is she in any other way reformist. A faithful adaptation would include all that.

Of course, it is not that likely that the show will do that, capering to modern audiences and the like. In a faithful setting Syrax will also only be Rhaenyra's mount. She will not ride her in battle, ever, and one can assume that the character in the book found the idea that she would have 'to fight' beneath her unless absolutely necessary (one imagines her returning to Dragonstone for another dragon implies she (also) wanted to use that dragon to fight).

Aegon III's rise to the throne is also nothing good in context. He is a broken child, unable to rule in his own right, basically the worst kind of king the Westerosi could get after a civil war.

I’m not going to pretend to know much of anything about British politics, but I do know that Thatcher and Ronald Reagan were/are considered ideological allies. Yet even the people who hate Reagan don’t seem to despise him anywhere near as much as people around the globe hate her. Like, gay men with AIDS like Reagan more than the average person likes Thatcher. The US has a pretty strong libertarian tradition (the philosophy, not the party), so that likely plays a role here, but I can’t help but think there’s some gender bias as well.

Rhaenyra’s really only a pampered princess in TPATQ. George played down this persona in FnB, and she’s noticeably less vicious than the men around her. Rhaenyra doesn’t even execute Alicent, and unlike 14-year-old Dany, she never feeds anyone to her dragon.

Aegon’s brokenness is another reason why I think it would be a good idea to end with the return of Viserys—the fiesty, clever brother who preserved his family as they stumbled from one idiocy to another. Or maybe they could have Baela and Rhaena taking Aegon under their wing, helping him rule. That could be a bit more of a “girl power” ending.