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12 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

This show will be nothing but Green propaganda if it objectively presents that Rhaenyra's sons with Laenor were actually bastards fathered by Harwin Strong. Because Rhaenyra didn't do it!

Well, they will have to show some stuff ... although if we think at the look Rhaenyra seems to be given uncle Daemon at her wedding (which he actually should not be attending) they could also go with multiple candidates for the true father there.

The way I'd go about is to portray the whole thing as a kind of polyamourous orgy - everybody is fucking everyone in the extended Velaryon/Targaryen family there, so it is isn't really possible who is the father of who, never mind the looks of the children.

If they were to go with an actual Criston-Rhaenyra romance I'd include him as a potential father for Jacaerys Velaryon.

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7 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

If they were to go with an actual Criston-Rhaenyra romance I'd include him as a potential father for Jacaerys Velaryon.

I first heard Preston Jacobs mention the idea that Criston is the father of Jacaerys. Would be insane if true. 

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1 minute ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Who said they were obligated? I said they were lame, that’s all. I can’t think of any other book-to-screen adaptation where most of the cast didn’t read the books except for GOT.

I agree . 

in my opinion, better actors tend to do research before playing in a role and don't just rely on the scrips. for example an actor portraying someone with a disease  tends to read a bit about that and an actor portraying a dragon lord in  a certain fantasy series reads the books. I mean , it would be understandable if something like aSoIaF was turned into a movie and actors didn't read the source materials , considering A. the books are too long B.actors aren't usually involved quite as much in movies as they are in series.  but for a series adapted out of a few chapters from a relatively small book ...  I don't even call that laziness ... I call that complete lack of curiosity 

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9 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

The way I'd go about is to portray the whole thing as a kind of polyamourous orgy - everybody is fucking everyone in the extended Velaryon/Targaryen family there, so it is isn't really possible who is the father of who, never mind the looks of the children.

Laenor/Harwin/Rhaenyra three-way. It is known. They can comfort him after he loses poor Joffrey Lonmouth. 

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33 minutes ago, Sotan said:

I first heard Preston Jacobs mention the idea that Criston is the father of Jacaerys. Would be insane if true. 

In the book it is not very likely ... but in the show it could very well be possible or true if they actually have Rhaenyra and Criston have a sexual relationship prior to their fallout.

Ditto, of course, with Daemon if he is actually there for Rhaenyra's wedding.

46 minutes ago, Sotan said:

Laenor/Harwin/Rhaenyra three-way. It is known. They can comfort him after he loses poor Joffrey Lonmouth. 

I'd have gone with Laenor as a cynical gay man, who only cares about his own pleasure and is about as eager to marry Rhaenyra as she is to marry him ... however, the vibe you get from the clips and pictures is that they might both be more vulnerable than they are in the book.

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I wonder what they'll do with Daemon-Rhaenyra relationship prior to their respective marriages. I think the proper way to this , is to have Daemon exiled after being found abed with Rhaenyra (in the scene kingsgaurd throw him down) , only to later return/ be invited by Viserys to Rhaenyra's wedding when her relationship with Harwin is already established .

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2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Who said they were obligated? I said they were lame, that’s all. I can’t think of any other book-to-screen adaptation where most of the cast didn’t read the books except for GOT.

I guess we just disagree on the responsibility that an adaptation has toward its source material. If the people making an adaptation want to be super faithful, that's a valid artistic choice. If they don't, that's equally valid. Faithfulness to source material is a neutral artistic choice, the same as whether a film is going to be in black and white or color, or is going to be 90 minutes or 150 minutes.

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18 hours ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I am yet to see myself, and I rather not be cut out of this thing, whatever it may turn out to be.

You won’t be. They’re going to need you for additional dragon fights after  Aegon is bedridden .

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, they will have to show some stuff ... although if we think at the look Rhaenyra seems to be given uncle Daemon at her wedding (which he actually should not be attending) they could also go with multiple candidates for the true father there.

The way I'd go about is to portray the whole thing as a kind of polyamourous orgy - everybody is fucking everyone in the extended Velaryon/Targaryen family there, so it is isn't really possible who is the father of who, never mind the looks of the children.

I feel like George would have protested that. The only characters that have orgies in this series are villains like Aegon IV. Even Rogar Baratheon is a shitty husband and would-be usurper (assuming he actually did have a bachelor party orgy). GRRM may be an old hippie who loves writing about incest and middle-aged men screwing teenage girls, but ASOIAF is very pro-monogamy.

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

If they were to go with an actual Criston-Rhaenyra romance I'd include him as a potential father for Jacaerys Velaryon.

I don’t want them to whitewash CC, but I feel like this would make him a super-villain. Even the morally ambiguous Larys Strong didn’t move against Rhaenyra while his likely-nephew Jace was still alive (he was probably Daemon’s source on the Green council, and he only explicitly helped Aegon after both Jace and Luke were dead). Criston trying to get his own son and his son’s mother killed is too cartoonishly evil for me. 

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51 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

 

I feel like George would have protested that. The only characters that have orgies in this series are villains like Aegon IV. Even Rogar Baratheon is a shitty husband and would-be usurper (assuming he actually did have a bachelor party orgy). GRRM may be an old hippie who loves writing about incest and middle-aged men screwing teenage girls, but ASOIAF is very pro-monogamy.

 

I'm sure Tyrion enjoys orgies, and I suspect that both Arianne and Daenerys would, too.

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36 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Tyrion and Arianne, sure, but Dany seemed rather unamused by Xaro’s traveling sex show when he visited her in Meereen.

IIRC, she got rather hot under the collar.  She was annoyed that they were slaves.  

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9 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I wonder what they'll do with Daemon-Rhaenyra relationship prior to their respective marriages. I think the proper way to this , is to have Daemon exiled after being found abed with Rhaenyra (in the scene kingsgaurd throw him down) , only to later return/ be invited by Viserys to Rhaenyra's wedding when her relationship with Harwin is already established .

It seems as if the Laenor-Rhaenyra marriage might happen around the time or shortly after Rhaenyra is named Heir Apparent. It is still Young Rhaenyra playing her at the wedding, so we are likely not going to get the unwed Realm's Delight touring Westeros and having suitors left and right.

How to deal with Daemon is very difficult to say since they really could turn him into a guy who wants the throne for himself and Mysaria in the beginning, only to start to work with the Velaryons and Rhaenyra in later days.

8 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I feel like George would have protested that. The only characters that have orgies in this series are villains like Aegon IV. Even Rogar Baratheon is a shitty husband and would-be usurper (assuming he actually did have a bachelor party orgy). GRRM may be an old hippie who loves writing about incest and middle-aged men screwing teenage girls, but ASOIAF is very pro-monogamy.

Well, I didn't necessarily mean 'orgies' literally - although I'd have no problem with that, either - rather that Laenor-Rhaenyra and Daemon-Laena both had open marriages and enjoyed each other as much as other sex partners. Sort of like Aegon also had sex with both his wives and Maegor with his.

What's kind of villified in the books are men who just think about their own pleasure, but Rhaena, for instance, may have also had some kind of group sex thing going on with her circle of friends - and that certainly wasn't wrong if it happened.

8 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I don’t want them to whitewash CC, but I feel like this would make him a super-villain. Even the morally ambiguous Larys Strong didn’t move against Rhaenyra while his likely-nephew Jace was still alive (he was probably Daemon’s source on the Green council, and he only explicitly helped Aegon after both Jace and Luke were dead). Criston trying to get his own son and his son’s mother killed is too cartoonishly evil for me. 

Well, he could not know that it is the case, or he might deny the mere possibility.

I mean, the way I'd play with the whole thing if I were to go with a Rhaenyra having multiple sex partners is that it is simply not clear who the father is because there are too many possibilities.

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3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, he could not know that it is the case, or he might deny the mere possibility.

I mean, the way I'd play with the whole thing if I were to go with a Rhaenyra having multiple sex partners is that it is simply not clear who the father is because there are too many possibilities.

that could be really interesting . especially if Cole gets to have a big role in the battle where Jace dies .

in the books though,  I am still pretty convinced that Rhaenyra Targaryen was a monogamist romantic . if she slightly considered the option of having multiple partners (including Daemon) , my guess is she would have at least tried to have one child fathered by a Valyrian featured guy . but she seemed pretty loyal to Harwin and Harwin alone ; which is why I think anything between Cole and Rhaenyra must have been completely one sided from Cole. 

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36 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

in the books though,  I am still pretty convinced that Rhaenyra Targaryen was a monogamist romantic . if she slightly considered the option of having multiple partners (including Daemon) , my guess is she would have at least tried to have one child fathered by a Valyrian featured guy . but she seemed pretty loyal to Harwin and Harwin alone ; which is why I think anything between Cole and Rhaenyra must have been completely one sided from Cole. 

I don't think so, to be honest. It is quite clear that she was attracted in some fashion to both Daemon and Criston in her childhood/youth (and the most believable scenario of the events in 111 AC has her being deflowered by Daemon), and as the later talk about growing 'more than fond' of Laena implies she might also have been attracted to women - or at least willing to try out her homosexual side. And that happened while Harwin Strong was still around on Dragonstone ... and during a time when Rhaenyra was no longer getting pregnant. So it is certainly possibly she had grown tired of Harwin at that time ... like Maegor grew tired of Tyanna, say.

What exactly there was between Harwin and Rhaenyra is something the show really has to flesh out - because just refused to do it. We don't know what she was to him, nor he to her (aside from, possibly, the sire of her children).

But I don't think it makes much sense to imagine this as a deep love. Harwin was clearly Rhaenyra's third choice. Her first choice may have been Daemon, her second choice Criston. Harwin only got his chance because the other two were either not available or she couldn't make it work. He may have been in love with her ... but even that one can doubt considering what kind of life he was willing to live with her. I mean, it seems quite clear that the Strong endgame here was to eventually make Harwin Strong prince or king consort at Rhaenyra Targaryen's side.

Which is, of course, also something one has to keep in mind when pondering the death of Laenor. Folks suspect Daemon in the books because he lost his wife first and could thus marry a widowed Rhaenyra. But prior to the Vhagar incident - which really turned the talk about 'the Strong boys' into public scandal - Harwin Strong may have also had hoped to marry a widowed Rhaenyra. They would have to wait a year or two, of course, but this wouldn't have been something Lyonel and Harwin never considered. Thus our sources may have allowed the elder Strongs of the hook because they died shortly after Laenor and never profited from his death, unlike Daemon.

Of course, there is no indication that Harwin and Laenor ever had a falling-out or other problems of any kind ... so this is just speculation.

While I think the show might make Vaemond Velaryon to culprit here, it could just as well also implicate the elder Strongs. And their subsequent death could be Daemon and the Velaryons taking their revenge, acting through ambitious young Larys - who, if he was Daemon's source on the Green Council, must have made close contact and/or common cause with Daemon at some point.

Him speaking up only at the end of the Green Council session discussing the succession could also be a hint that this is the point where this guy turns Green, at least officially, realizing that Alicent, Otto, and Criston are too strong for open resistance at this point, and he has to play along and win their trust or fear to end like poor Lyman Beesbury. He only speaks up long after Beesbury was apparently murdered right there at the table. And a huge part of the justification for Aegon's coronation is that Rhaenyra's immediate heirs are 'Strongs', i.e. his, Larys's, biological nephews. One imagines this connection really made him thinking that he could not possibly risk appearing like a guy who isn't a most fervent Green. He would clearly be one of the guys who Otto and Alicent and the others might support of treason the soonest, never mind what he did to help them.

Hence all that blood oath crap.

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38 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't think so, to be honest. It is quite clear that she was attracted in some fashion to both Daemon and Criston in her childhood/youth (and the most believable scenario of the events in 111 AC has her being deflowered by Daemon), and as the later talk about growing 'more than fond' of Laena implies she might also have been attracted to women - or at least willing to try out her homosexual side. And that happened while Harwin Strong was still around on Dragonstone ... and during a time when Rhaenyra was no longer getting pregnant. So it is certainly possibly she had grown tired of Harwin at that time ... like Maegor grew tired of Tyanna, say.

What exactly there was between Harwin and Rhaenyra is something the show really has to flesh out - because just refused to do it. We don't know what she was to him, nor he to her (aside from, possibly, the sire of her children).

But I don't think it makes much sense to imagine this as a deep love. Harwin was clearly Rhaenyra's third choice. Her first choice may have been Daemon, her second choice Criston. Harwin only got his chance because the other two were either not available or she couldn't make it work. He may have been in love with her ... but even that one can doubt considering what kind of life he was willing to live with her. I mean, it seems quite clear that the Strong endgame here was to eventually make Harwin Strong prince or king consort at Rhaenyra Targaryen's side.

Which is, of course, also something one has to keep in mind when pondering the death of Laenor. Folks suspect Daemon in the books because he lost his wife first and could thus marry a widowed Rhaenyra. But prior to the Vhagar incident - which really turned the talk about 'the Strong boys' into public scandal - Harwin Strong may have also had hoped to marry a widowed Rhaenyra. They would have to wait a year or two, of course, but this wouldn't have been something Lyonel and Harwin never considered. Thus our sources may have allowed the elder Strongs of the hook because they died shortly after Laenor and never profited from his death, unlike Daemon.

Of course, there is no indication that Harwin and Laenor ever had a falling-out or other problems of any kind ... so this is just speculation.

While I think the show might make Vaemond Velaryon to culprit here, it could just as well also implicate the elder Strongs. And their subsequent death could be Daemon and the Velaryons taking their revenge, acting through ambitious young Larys - who, if he was Daemon's source on the Green Council, must have made close contact and/or common cause with Daemon at some point.

Him speaking up only at the end of the Green Council session discussing the succession could also be a hint that this is the point where this guy turns Green, at least officially, realizing that Alicent, Otto, and Criston are too strong for open resistance at this point, and he has to play along and win their trust or fear to end like poor Lyman Beesbury. He only speaks up long after Beesbury was apparently murdered right there at the table. And a huge part of the justification for Aegon's coronation is that Rhaenyra's immediate heirs are 'Strongs', i.e. his, Larys's, biological nephews. One imagines this connection really made him thinking that he could not possibly risk appearing like a guy who isn't a most fervent Green. He would clearly be one of the guys who Otto and Alicent and the others might support of treason the soonest, never mind what he did to help them.

Hence all that blood oath crap.

Seven years passed between Viserys and Visenya’s births, and you can be sure Daemon of all people would have insisted on claiming his “husband’s rights” during that time. Childbirth changes your body, including fertility, sex drive, etc. It’s not hard to imagine that Rhaenyra wouldn’t conceive as easily after three successive births. As EggBlue pointed out, if it was just about sex, she could have found a Valyrian lover, that way there would be no rumors of bastards. Plus, keep in mind that her and Harwin were together all the time—he was her personal guard. You’d have to like someone quite a bit to spend that much time with them.

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9 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't think so, to be honest. It is quite clear that she was attracted in some fashion to both Daemon and Criston in her childhood/youth (and the most believable scenario of the events in 111 AC has her being deflowered by Daemon), and as the later talk about growing 'more than fond' of Laena implies she might also have been attracted to women - or at least willing to try out her homosexual side. And that happened while Harwin Strong was still around on Dragonstone ... and during a time when Rhaenyra was no longer getting pregnant. So it is certainly possibly she had grown tired of Harwin at that time ... like Maegor grew tired of Tyanna, say.

What exactly there was between Harwin and Rhaenyra is something the show really has to flesh out - because just refused to do it. We don't know what she was to him, nor he to her (aside from, possibly, the sire of her children).

But I don't think it makes much sense to imagine this as a deep love. Harwin was clearly Rhaenyra's third choice. Her first choice may have been Daemon, her second choice Criston. Harwin only got his chance because the other two were either not available or she couldn't make it work. He may have been in love with her ... but even that one can doubt considering what kind of life he was willing to live with her. I mean, it seems quite clear that the Strong endgame here was to eventually make Harwin Strong prince or king consort at Rhaenyra Targaryen's side.

Which is, of course, also something one has to keep in mind when pondering the death of Laenor. Folks suspect Daemon in the books because he lost his wife first and could thus marry a widowed Rhaenyra. But prior to the Vhagar incident - which really turned the talk about 'the Strong boys' into public scandal - Harwin Strong may have also had hoped to marry a widowed Rhaenyra. They would have to wait a year or two, of course, but this wouldn't have been something Lyonel and Harwin never considered. Thus our sources may have allowed the elder Strongs of the hook because they died shortly after Laenor and never profited from his death, unlike Daemon.

Of course, there is no indication that Harwin and Laenor ever had a falling-out or other problems of any kind ... so this is just speculation.

While I think the show might make Vaemond Velaryon to culprit here, it could just as well also implicate the elder Strongs. And their subsequent death could be Daemon and the Velaryons taking their revenge, acting through ambitious young Larys - who, if he was Daemon's source on the Green Council, must have made close contact and/or common cause with Daemon at some point.

Him speaking up only at the end of the Green Council session discussing the succession could also be a hint that this is the point where this guy turns Green, at least officially, realizing that Alicent, Otto, and Criston are too strong for open resistance at this point, and he has to play along and win their trust or fear to end like poor Lyman Beesbury. He only speaks up long after Beesbury was apparently murdered right there at the table. And a huge part of the justification for Aegon's coronation is that Rhaenyra's immediate heirs are 'Strongs', i.e. his, Larys's, biological nephews. One imagines this connection really made him thinking that he could not possibly risk appearing like a guy who isn't a most fervent Green. He would clearly be one of the guys who Otto and Alicent and the others might support of treason the soonest, never mind what he did to help them.

Hence all that blood oath crap.

I fail to understand your logic when you say "Harwin was Rhaenyra's third choice" .. if you have 2 ex-boyfriends you have loved deeply at the time but now you are with a third , does it make him your third choice and a lesser choice? I simply do not think so. she may have had a crush on Cole or more . and she obviously had an affair with Daemon but that doesn't change what she had with Harwin . in fact , it seems the way she had spurred Cole was twofold . on one hand she was marrying Laenor , on the other she took Harwin with her so right away that she had almost certainly been courting him then . Cole killed Joffrey and beat the hell out of Harwin (who probably survived for being pretty strong) . the man was jealous of both Laenor and Harwin. 

Rhaenyra in FnB is pretty much an extremely emotional person who doesn't think or act politically . otherwise , she wouldn't have opposed Laenor marriage as much as she did , she wouldn't have demanded to marry her already married uncle , she wouldn't have kept a guy who couldn't be further from her husband in looks as lover despite rumors about her first born had already been in place and she wouldn't have married Daemon so soon. if anything , she could announce Aegon III as fourth son of Laenor Velaryon and end all the bastardy rumors once and for all . 

the fact that she may have already started a relationship with Laena and Daemon or that she was moving on from Harwin before his death is not out of question . but again , if she had a relationship with Daemon then , why wouldn't she raise his son as Laenor's and marry Daemon in a more appropriate time? she and Laena may have been indeed more than fond of each other and that can not be neither proved nor discredited . 

as for the rest of your post , I more or less agree . although , it would have been a long shot for Strongs considering Alicent had already started rumors about "Strong" boys and king Viserys may had preferred his own son as consort this time around.

 

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20 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

It seems as if the Laenor-Rhaenyra marriage might happen around the time or shortly after Rhaenyra is named Heir Apparent. It is still Young Rhaenyra playing her at the wedding, so we are likely not going to get the unwed Realm's Delight touring Westeros and having suitors left and right.

How to deal with Daemon is very difficult to say since they really could turn him into a guy who wants the throne for himself and Mysaria in the beginning, only to start to work with the Velaryons and Rhaenyra in later days.

Well, I didn't necessarily mean 'orgies' literally - although I'd have no problem with that, either - rather that Laenor-Rhaenyra and Daemon-Laena both had open marriages and enjoyed each other as much as other sex partners. Sort of like Aegon also had sex with both his wives and Maegor with his.

What's kind of villified in the books are men who just think about their own pleasure, but Rhaena, for instance, may have also had some kind of group sex thing going on with her circle of friends - and that certainly wasn't wrong if it happened.

Well, he could not know that it is the case, or he might deny the mere possibility.

I mean, the way I'd play with the whole thing if I were to go with a Rhaenyra having multiple sex partners is that it is simply not clear who the father is because there are too many possibilities.

For Rhaena and her girlfriends, I think it was more musical beds than group sex.

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14 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Seven years passed between Viserys and Visenya’s births, and you can be sure Daemon of all people would have insisted on claiming his “husband’s rights” during that time. Childbirth changes your body, including fertility, sex drive, etc. It’s not hard to imagine that Rhaenyra wouldn’t conceive as easily after three successive births. As EggBlue pointed out, if it was just about sex, she could have found a Valyrian lover, that way there would be no rumors of bastards. Plus, keep in mind that her and Harwin were together all the time—he was her personal guard. You’d have to like someone quite a bit to spend that much time with them.

I guess it is easily imaginable that Daemon grew tired of frequently sharing the bed with 'fat Rhaenyra' after the birth of Viserys. He had two sons now, so not really a need to father many more.

And I didn't mean to say Rhaenyra wasn't attracted to Harwin. Just that I don't think we have to view this as a great love story. But rather a romance of convenience, a kind of partnership. We do have ample evidence she was very much into manly, well-built, strong men - Daemon, Criston, and Harwin all fit that type, after all.

And to be sure - Rhaenyra isn't the person who would bother picking her sex partners for their Valyrian looks. Alicent's children apparently all looked like their dad, so why should it different with her?

5 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I fail to understand your logic when you say "Harwin was Rhaenyra's third choice" .. if you have 2 ex-boyfriends you have loved deeply at the time but now you are with a third , does it make him your third choice and a lesser choice?

I meant third choice insofar as the father of her children is concerned. Her first choice was Daemon in 111 AC, when she slept with him and wanted to marry him (if we follow the Eustace version which I do), her second choice may have been Criston, which makes Harwin just the third choice.

Even more so in light of the fact that prior to the Laenor marriage announcement Harwin Strong also proposed to Rhaenyra and was rejected.

5 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I simply do not think so. she may have had a crush on Cole or more . and she obviously had an affair with Daemon but that doesn't change what she had with Harwin . in fact , it seems the way she had spurred Cole was twofold . on one hand she was marrying Laenor , on the other she took Harwin with her so right away that she had almost certainly been courting him then . Cole killed Joffrey and beat the hell out of Harwin (who probably survived for being pretty strong) . the man was jealous of both Laenor and Harwin. 

Sure enough. But while neither Mushroom nor Eustace give that story, I think it is possible that Rhaenyra was enough into Criston to offer him to be her secret lover and the father of her children (essentially the position Harwin later took) when she refused to run away with him.

And, of course, it is also possible that they even had a secret affair prior to their fallout - with the fallout not being triggered by a general rejection on either part but by Rhaenyra agreeing to marry Laenor and not refusing to run away with Criston.

The show could very well go with such a version rather than having no sex between Rhaenyra and Criston.

5 hours ago, EggBlue said:

Rhaenyra in FnB is pretty much an extremely emotional person who doesn't think or act politically . otherwise , she wouldn't have opposed Laenor marriage as much as she did , she wouldn't have demanded to marry her already married uncle , she wouldn't have kept a guy who couldn't be further from her husband in looks as lover despite rumors about her first born had already been in place and she wouldn't have married Daemon so soon. if anything , she could announce Aegon III as fourth son of Laenor Velaryon and end all the bastardy rumors once and for all .

I don't think the parentage of her sons is that big of a political deal, to be honest. It is something the Greens tell each other in hushed voices, but nobody else seems to be even talking about this. And nobody but the core Greens so much as brings up this issue as a reason why Rhaenyra should not ascend the Iron Throne.

If it was a political issue of importance, we should expect that the lords Jace approaches should raise that point, or that Borros Baratheon would bring it up. Hell, it could also be a reason why some of the lords stayed neutral, etc.

5 hours ago, EggBlue said:

the fact that she may have already started a relationship with Laena and Daemon or that she was moving on from Harwin before his death is not out of question . but again , if she had a relationship with Daemon then , why wouldn't she raise his son as Laenor's and marry Daemon in a more appropriate time? she and Laena may have been indeed more than fond of each other and that can not be neither proved nor discredited .

I guess because Daemon and Rhaenyra wanted Daemon's son to be Daemon's son?

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31 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I guess it is easily imaginable that Daemon grew tired of frequently sharing the bed with 'fat Rhaenyra' after the birth of Viserys. He had two sons now, so not really a need to father many more.

And I didn't mean to say Rhaenyra wasn't attracted to Harwin. Just that I don't think we have to view this as a great love story. But rather a romance of convenience, a kind of partnership. We do have ample evidence she was very much into manly, well-built, strong men - Daemon, Criston, and Harwin all fit that type, after all.

And to be sure - Rhaenyra isn't the person who would bother picking her sex partners for their Valyrian looks. Alicent's children apparently all looked like their dad, so why should it different with her?

I meant third choice insofar as the father of her children is concerned. Her first choice was Daemon in 111 AC, when she slept with him and wanted to marry him (if we follow the Eustace version which I do), her second choice may have been Criston, which makes Harwin just the third choice.

Even more so in light of the fact that prior to the Laenor marriage announcement Harwin Strong also proposed to Rhaenyra and was rejected.

Sure enough. But while neither Mushroom nor Eustace give that story, I think it is possible that Rhaenyra was enough into Criston to offer him to be her secret lover and the father of her children (essentially the position Harwin later took) when she refused to run away with him.

And, of course, it is also possible that they even had a secret affair prior to their fallout - with the fallout not being triggered by a general rejection on either part but by Rhaenyra agreeing to marry Laenor and not refusing to run away with Criston.

The show could very well go with such a version rather than having no sex between Rhaenyra and Criston.

I don't think the parentage of her sons is that big of a political deal, to be honest. It is something the Greens tell each other in hushed voices, but nobody else seems to be even talking about this. And nobody but the core Greens so much as brings up this issue as a reason why Rhaenyra should not ascend the Iron Throne.

If it was a political issue of importance, we should expect that the lords Jace approaches should raise that point, or that Borros Baratheon would bring it up. Hell, it could also be a reason why some of the lords stayed neutral, etc.

I guess because Daemon and Rhaenyra wanted Daemon's son to be Daemon's son?

I see Daemon as the kind of guy who would sleep with his wife semi-regularly just as a reminder that he was the one in charge and could do whatever he wanted with her. That’s how Aegon IV apparently was with Naerys, and we’re told that he was never attracted to her.

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