New Peek at House of the Dragon

[Sotan]

5 hours ago, EggBlue said:

yeah .... that would be.. interesting:) 

I still think ( =hope) that everyone will see it's much better to make the Mouse Corlys's illegitimate daughter previous to his so called "love match"  

That's kind of brilliant. 

[SeanF]

On 7/15/2022 at 7:01 AM, Sotan said:

I was purposefully in denial from 5-6 because the last 2-3 episodes of both seasons were fun spectacles that made me paper over my misgivings. Cersei sitting the IT, in particular, I somehow couldn't shake as a bad omen. Season 7 was when I couldn't ignore it anymore but extended the show grace it didn't deserve, and I got egg on my face in S8 as a result. 

My experience too.  I was so underwhelmed by Season 7, but I thought surely they’d pull out theme stops to make Season 8 good.

[SeanF]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, I'm not going to bother that this is a show that takes place in the silly 'GoT universe' so I'd have no issue at all if it was closer to the books in certain aspects and thus 'contradicting' the so-called 'show canon'.

Again, no need for any surprises there. The Hull boys can be Laenor's sons, after all. Might even be the better plotline considering they might then be Corlys' only biological grandsons.

Like you, I don’t think there’s any need to make this consistent with Season Shit.

It is a fairly safe bet (IMO) that in reality, the scions of the Targaryens will play a big role in the fight against the Others.

[Lord Varys]

7 hours ago, EggBlue said:

yeah .... that would be.. interesting:) 

I still think ( =hope) that everyone will see it's much better to make the Mouse Corlys's illegitimate daughter previous to his so called "love match"  

That kind of thing can work, too, of course. Although it seems the show is kind of dropping the huge age gap between Corlys and Rhaenys, so I'm not sure how much sense this makes in context. The old man is actually older than Rhaenys's father in the books.

For the book canon I think we should assume that Addam of Hull does have more than just a very diluted drop of 'dragon blood' from his father if we assume he is Corlys' son.

Rather we would assume that Marilda of Hull has also some (unaknowledged) Velaryon or Targaryen bastards among her not so distant ancestors to explain why he could become a dragonrider.

I mean, we also assume that Hugh and Ulf may have some such bastard among his more recent ancestors. Baelon Targaryen was Prince of Dragonstone from 92 AC till his death and seems to have spent most of those years (before he became Hand) on the island. He may have never remarried and he doesn't seem to have entertained a permanent mistress in his later life ... but that doesn't mean he lived like a monk and never visited a brothel.

The show should actually go with the Laenor version of events since it seems quite clear now that there are no close marriage ties between the Velaryons and the Targaryens in the show, meaning Corlys himself may have no Targaryen ancestors in his family tree ... or in the generations before House Velaryon moved to Driftmark 300+ years ago.

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, SeanF said:

Like you, I don’t think there’s any need to make this consistent with Season Shit.

It is a fairly safe bet (IMO) that in reality, the scions of the Targaryens will play a big role in the fight against the Others.

Well, that goes without saying.

If it turns out that those prophecy spoilers are correct then chances are pretty good that the stuff comes from George. In light of the ridiculous way in which the show dealt with that aspect of the story, a writer writing in 'the show universe' would likely try to keep things straight with GoT to the degree this makes sense and thus perhaps introduce prophecies that might allow the audience to draw a line to Arya and the show shenanigans, not so much stuff we might expect in the books.

Although, of course, we can expect that George is going to fuck with the Targaryens if he gives us a secret prophecy urging them to create unity and peace and build a united front against the Others ... only to have various historical characters and presumably some of the Targaryens in the book series fuck that up.

But in the end it is clear that anyone with half a brain is going to abandon or at least postpone personal ambitions and grievances once they realize the Others are a thing.

In the book context, though, it is actually quite interesting to figure/learn which Targaryens knew/believed in that kind of thing and what policies they enacted to stay in line with that.

One would imagine the folks up until the Dance knew about it - especially Daeron I looks like a king who had no clue about any of that - but Rhaenyra may not have told Aegon III about that (after all, she apparently also didn't tell Joff crucial parts of dragonlore). It seems as if a later king may have (re-)discovered crucial pieces (Aerys I). But perhaps those later guys only had the ancient promised prince prophecy, the one which made it clear that they have a special destiny/role in Westeros, but nothing as concrete as the kind of stuff the Conqueror may have had.

That could help explain all those pointless Blackfyre shenanigans, Aegon V's laudable focus on the smallfolk ... which wouldn't have been his priority if he had expected the world as he knew it might end eventually.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I fully expect them to reboot GOT if the books are ever finished. With that in mind, any prequel could gain new meaning based on what they do the second time around. The problem is, the books have to be finished first. 

The reason why I think it would be a mistake is that the most frequent reason I’ve seen people give for why they’re not interested in HOTD is that everything feels pointless based on how it ends. And what would be more pointless than a prophecy about how the Targaryens are integral to fighting a threat that was defeated with one jab to the stomach? 
 

One change I hope the show makes is to keep Jace around longer. He’s probably the closest thing the Dance has to a straightforward hero, and I think George made a mistake by killing him off so early in the war. Obviously he wanted to show that both sides were bad (although not to the extent that most people make it out to be—as I’ve said in the past, the blacks are definitely painted in a more favorable light) but not having any inspiring figures to rally behind is one of the reasons why the Dance starts to drag quite a bit once Rhaenyra takes the throne. It’s basically just misery porn after that.

[SeanF]

3 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I fully expect them to reboot GOT if the books are ever finished. With that in mind, any prequel could gain new meaning based on what they do the second time around. The problem is, the books have to be finished first. 

The reason why I think it would be a mistake is that the most frequent reason I’ve seen people give for why they’re not interested in HOTD is that everything feels pointless based on how it ends. And what would be more pointless than a prophecy about how the Targaryens are integral to fighting a threat that was defeated with one jab to the stomach? 
 

One change I hope the show makes is to keep Jace around longer. He’s probably the closest thing the Dance has to a straightforward hero, and I think George made a mistake by killing him off so early in the war. Obviously he wanted to show that both sides were bad (although not to the extent that most people make it out to be—as I’ve said in the past, the blacks are definitely painted in a more favorable light) but not having any inspiring figures to rally behind is one of the reasons why the Dance starts to drag quite a bit once Rhaenyra takes the throne. It’s basically just misery porn after that.

Yes, for me, that’s the biggest deterrent to watching HOTD.  But, I will watch it if I hear  very good things about it.

[EggBlue]

10 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

That kind of thing can work, too, of course. Although it seems the show is kind of dropping the huge age gap between Corlys and Rhaenys, so I'm not sure how much sense this makes in context. The old man is actually older than Rhaenys's father in the books.

For the book canon I think we should assume that Addam of Hull does have more than just a very diluted drop of 'dragon blood' from his father if we assume he is Corlys' son.

Rather we would assume that Marilda of Hull has also some (unaknowledged) Velaryon or Targaryen bastards among her not so distant ancestors to explain why he could become a dragonrider.

I mean, we also assume that Hugh and Ulf may have some such bastard among his more recent ancestors. Baelon Targaryen was Prince of Dragonstone from 92 AC till his death and seems to have spent most of those years (before he became Hand) on the island. He may have never remarried and he doesn't seem to have entertained a permanent mistress in his later life ... but that doesn't mean he lived like a monk and never visited a brothel.

The show should actually go with the Laenor version of events since it seems quite clear now that there are no close marriage ties between the Velaryons and the Targaryens in the show, meaning Corlys himself may have no Targaryen ancestors in his family tree ... or in the generations before House Velaryon moved to Driftmark 300+ years ago.

even without their huge age gap , a pre-marriage bastard can work . but I agree that without introducing Velaryon-Targaryen family tree , it'll be really weird for show fans to see Corly's son/grandson riding dragons . in which case Laenor would be a much better option . but then there will be the problem of why Laenor had children with another woman and not with his wife . I mean one child could work . but two? and moreover simultaneous with his marriage? ... If it were up to me I would have made Addam and Alyn Laenor's twins from when he was still unsure if he is gay.. I suppose it takes some time to accept that when you live in Westeros and are kinda a prince..

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

On 7/16/2022 at 11:01 AM, Ran said:

Wow. What an interesting choice. Were they trying to keep it hidden that it was for the new Star Wars? 

I don't think so. I guess they thought it was important that the eventual actors for Rey and Finn really have chemistry.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

even without their huge age gap , a pre-marriage bastard can work . but I agree that without introducing Velaryon-Targaryen family tree , it'll be really weird for show fans to see Corly's son/grandson riding dragons . in which case Laenor would be a much better option . but then there will be the problem of why Laenor had children with another woman and not with his wife . I mean one child could work . but two? and moreover simultaneous with his marriage? ... If it were up to me I would have made Addam and Alyn Laenor's twins from when he was still unsure if he is gay.. I suppose it takes some time to accept that when you live in Westeros and are kinda a prince..

We have to wait and see how they portray Laenor. If Rhaenyra just doesn't like him at all and refuses to have sex with him ... then that's that. Laenor could have been bisexual or he could have had some connection with Marilda explaining while they had an affair for a time ... and this would have still had no effect on his marriage to Rhaenyra.

Making the Hull boys a tidbit older so that they are fathered prior to Laenor's wedding could also help with that.

[EggBlue]

40 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

We have to wait and see how they portray Laenor. If Rhaenyra just doesn't like him at all and refuses to have sex with him ... then that's that. Laenor could have been bisexual or he could have had some connection with Marilda explaining while they had an affair for a time ... and this would have still had no effect on his marriage to Rhaenyra.

that would put their family dynamic in a weird situation. why would Corlys and Rhaenys get themselves involved in a conflict for Rhaenaera's sake then?

40 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Making the Hull boys a tidbit older so that they are fathered prior to Laenor's wedding could also help with that.

that's what I'm saying.

[Sotan]

6 hours ago, EggBlue said:

even without their huge age gap , a pre-marriage bastard can work . but I agree that without introducing Velaryon-Targaryen family tree , it'll be really weird for show fans to see Corly's son/grandson riding dragons . in which case Laenor would be a much better option . but then there will be the problem of why Laenor had children with another woman and not with his wife . I mean one child could work . but two? and moreover simultaneous with his marriage? ... If it were up to me I would have made Addam and Alyn Laenor's twins from when he was still unsure if he is gay.. I suppose it takes some time to accept that when you live in Westeros and are kinda a prince..

Or Laenor was forced/pressured to prove his masculinity with Marilda and vowed never to do something like that again. He's then forced into a marriage with Rhaenyra and as a matter of principle, or to get back at his parents he chooses not to have a sexual relationship with her and they come to an agreement to live separate lives. Laenor can be gay and still the father of the Hull brothers especially if they're twins. 

[EggBlue]

1 minute ago, Sotan said:

Or Laenor was forced/pressured to prove his masculinity with Marilda and vowed never to do something like that again. He's then forced into a marriage with Rhaenyra and as a matter of principle, or to get back at his parents he chooses not to have a sexual relationship with her and they come to an agreement to live separate lives. Laenor can be gay and still the father of the Hull brothers especially if they're twins. 

yeah that could work too. although Rhaenys and Corlys come off as Westeros dream parents

 

 

 

[EggBlue]

I've been thinking... now that the show has made Alicent and Rhaenyra BFFs , Alicent really needs to be involved or present in Rhaenyra's death scene. my guess is she'll go to Dragonstone with Rhaenyra's party as the queen's prominent hostage . and then when Aegon has Rhaenyra devoured by his dragon , she'll be speechless and shocked by the monster she has made her son to be ...after all , even Sunfyre wasn't overjoyed by eating his rider's sister!  ... and all that for what?.. they could be one big happy family and she and her father screw it up ... isn't that tragic?

[Sotan]

7 hours ago, EggBlue said:

yeah that could work too. although Rhaenys and Corlys come off as Westeros dream parents

 

 

 

They tried to get their 12-year-old daughter married to a much older man (Viserys) and then forced their gay son to marry Rhaenyra. I really hope the show explores that aspect of their parenting. They come off looking terrible. 

[Sotan]

"Nobody alive in this story has ever seen a war or a meaningful conflict," Condal elaborates. "Yes, there have been skirmishes and tournaments, but we're living in this society based on conflicts for power. We're watching a period of time where every man has been trained for battle since birth, but battle doesn't happen. That pent-up energy leaks out between the cracks and starts to wear on itself where you almost need the release of war in order to keep the whole thing from boiling over."

This quote highlights an issue I've had with the books; why doesn't Westeros invade Essos? The answer to that pent-up energy is foreign wars of conquest, yet Westeros never really did that. Has it ever been explained why? Especially considering the narrow sea is narrow and not a huge body of water. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

23 minutes ago, Sotan said:

"Nobody alive in this story has ever seen a war or a meaningful conflict," Condal elaborates. "Yes, there have been skirmishes and tournaments, but we're living in this society based on conflicts for power. We're watching a period of time where every man has been trained for battle since birth, but battle doesn't happen. That pent-up energy leaks out between the cracks and starts to wear on itself where you almost need the release of war in order to keep the whole thing from boiling over."

This quote highlights an issue I've had with the books; why doesn't Westeros invade Essos? The answer to that pent-up energy is foreign wars of conquest, yet Westeros never really did that. Has it ever been explained why? Especially considering the narrow sea is narrow and not a huge body of water. 

Well, in DnE we’re told that lords had minor skirmishes between each other all the time, plus they had tourneys. So within the scope of the books, I think that’s how most knights/soldiers spent their time.

[SeanF]

28 minutes ago, Sotan said:

"Nobody alive in this story has ever seen a war or a meaningful conflict," Condal elaborates. "Yes, there have been skirmishes and tournaments, but we're living in this society based on conflicts for power. We're watching a period of time where every man has been trained for battle since birth, but battle doesn't happen. That pent-up energy leaks out between the cracks and starts to wear on itself where you almost need the release of war in order to keep the whole thing from boiling over."

This quote highlights an issue I've had with the books; why doesn't Westeros invade Essos? The answer to that pent-up energy is foreign wars of conquest, yet Westeros never really did that. Has it ever been explained why? Especially considering the narrow sea is narrow and not a huge body of water. 

Many of them take service as sellswords, abroad.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Verdict on the wigs: adult-Rhaenyra’s looks good, but the rest look super goofy. Rhaenys’ is probably the ugliest (ironic, since I’d say she has the best costumes), but I think young-Rhaenyra’s is also noticeably bad (also ironic, since the actress is blonde). It clashes with her skin tone, and not in the intentional/fantastical way that Corlys’ does.

[EggBlue]

4 hours ago, Sotan said:

They tried to get their 12-year-old daughter married to a much older man (Viserys) and then forced their gay son to marry Rhaenyra. I really hope the show explores that aspect of their parenting. They come off looking terrible. 

I forgot about that... still, they are better than most Westerosi parents.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Verdict on the wigs: adult-Rhaenyra’s looks good, but the rest look super goofy. Rhaenys’ is probably the ugliest (ironic, since I’d say she has the best costumes), but I think young-Rhaenyra’s is also noticeably bad (also ironic, since the actress is blonde). It clashes with her skin tone, and not in the intentional/fantastical way that Corlys’ does.

adultRhaenyra: I agree. 

young-Rhaenyra: I don't . she's one of the few who looks good.

the rest: Rhaenys is horrible . Daemon's worse . Viserys's the worst . 

and what is with the eyebrows? won't they look better if eyebrows and beards have the same color as hair?